Author Topic: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?  (Read 7913 times)

lighter

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2007, 11:23:28 AM »
Hi, all,
 

Lighter, I wonder what he was communicating by doing that. 




 

I'm pretty sure those boys were both marking their territory by taking food from my plate.  The Server used to be a professor and now he's waiting on men he considers/desires to be equals.  It's a tough spot and I see him struggle with that and then some cocky little well dressed short MARRIED guy gets fry fry's from me!  THE NERVE!  Well, he just figured he was closer to me and betttter aquainted and HE could get some FRY FRY'S TOO!   

Doesn't that just sound like the silliest thing, lol?

Stormchild

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2007, 11:24:42 AM »
Oy Sela.

Someone was hired in a place where I worked based on positive self-presentation.

Once off probation, they destroyed an automatic parking gate because it didn't open fast enough for them, assaulted one of the janitors, screamed at the Department Head, screamed at the Deputy Department head, launched vendettas against every member of the support staff [they were such an email stalker that everyone had a special inbox where their messages went, so they could avoid the constant bombardment, because this person sent a message every ten minutes wanting to know why the target hadn't done whatever it was that was demanded of them. Usually, they hadn't done it because it was THIS PERSON'S JOB].

This is only a partial list.

When confronted about the egregious and abusive behavior, they would burst into tears and insist that they deserved special treatment because their mom was psychotic and their dad was a violent drunk.

When last I checked, the upper uppers had done nothing constructive about any of this, but they had promoted this person twice, because otherwise they might cryyyyyyy....

I don't think focusing exclusively on the positive was terribly wise, in this instance. Do you?

PS: this is all true.

;-).
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Sela

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2007, 11:32:20 AM »
Hoy Stormy,

Nothing is absolute eh?

Sela

ps:  on edit:  Not everything is absolute is more accurate maybe?

lighter

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2007, 11:35:14 AM »
My jaw is hanging open still Storm.  I'm amazed at how my feet are held to the fire and how awful people get away with murder cause no one wants to deal with them. 

Sela, loved the "push the plate at fancy suit and say 'you bought em now, fella'"  response.

It could be delivered in so many ways.  My other friend delivered the line without any humor and it was so confrontational and hurt sounding.  Blech. 


Stormchild

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2007, 11:41:26 AM »
Hoy Stormy,

Nothing is absolute eh?

Sela

ps:  on edit:  Not everything is absolute is more accurate maybe?

Absolutely! ;-)

Lighter, I'm flabbergasted too. What I've described here is all the action of ONE PERSON. The amount of destructiveness an organization will tolerate, rather than stand up to someone like this, just blows me away. But God forbid a well-behaved, conscientious, steady worker comes in half an hour late one day, wearing flip-flops.

It's insane.
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

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Sela

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2007, 11:43:03 AM »
Oh Lighter!

Quote
My other friend delivered the line without any humor and it was so confrontational and hurt sounding.  Blech.


For sure!  Wouldn't that be like giving big supply?  Isn't that likely what they dude wants anyhow?  A reaction he can eat up?  

Much better to smile and not let his audacity have an effect (not that I can always do it that way...it's so easy to sit and read and think of a lovely response....but in the situation.....feeling the feelings....trying to think of what is best to do/say?....I understand why you said nothing.  Half the time, I ignore when in doubt.  Why not?  It's almost as good!)

 :D Sela

PS:  The other half of the time......I say/do the wrong thing.  :oops:
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 11:48:47 AM by Sela »

Sela

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2007, 11:46:33 AM »


Quote
Absolutely!  :wink:

Positively!   :mrgreen:

Stormchild

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2007, 12:05:54 PM »
lighter, the french fry wars. ick ick ick.

basically there wasn't much you could do about Loud Boy except christen him appropriately, which you did. an abusive N from the get go.

i'm going to float an alternative theory about the server taking your fry. i think he was sending a signal to loud boy, again, by doing that. it didn't work the way i think he intended, but i do believe he was trying to interpose himself between you and loud boy, to protect you. that fits with the references to loud boy's wife. loud boy claims you by eating your food, and the server puts himself in between you by taking a fry afterwards.

as far as talking over loud boy to ptg, good for you.
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

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mudpuppy

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2007, 12:24:08 PM »
Going back to tt's original post,

It seems to me things are a little more complicated than putting on a friendly and optimistic facade simply for the sake of deceiving others and social climbing. For many people social norms such as these are used as camoflage for destructive behavior and of course it does breed a certain callousness in that people are usually expected to present things as being fine even though they aren't. But social norms are seldom developed for the exceptions, they are usually developed for the general. And generally it would be most disquieting and lead to a great deal of harm for openess and absolute honesty to be dispensed with every handshake. The fact is it is usually quite a burden when someone unloads their grief, faults and complaints on another and it seems quite reasonable for a society to expect mere acquaintances to reserve unburdening themselves on each other.
TT questioned whether the ritual of putting on the pretense of 'all is well' hadn't any value. I shudder to think of a society in which that face is not put forward. Are there in fact any, save some tiny famiial tribe in tha Amazon somewhere?  I believe it is not only good manners not to burden mere acquaintances with our problems it is also quite probably a defensive action to protect ourselves from giving potential predators information they can use to harm us. Not only that, but for the relatively genuine among us I suspect it is an attempt to project our ideal selves; what we strive for. Those who have integrity are not putting up a facade when they put their best foot forward, those without integrity will deceive no matter what the societal norms are, and would have even more power in a society where they were still free to conceal their weaknesses and faults but the less predatory weren't.

I believe this to be one of those norms which is criticized because it is abused but is far better than the alternative, because it puts a much needed restraint on that part of human nature that is best kept in check any way we can.
A facade of stoic endurance and exaggerated integrity encourages people to be self reliant and to use sparingly the emotional and material resources of others. It's certainly no panacea, in fact it's a compromise, but the alternative seems to me to lead inexorably to a stagnant, even more abusive and hopelessly vulnerable society.

mud

PS. Lighter, I agree with Stormy about why server boy took your fry. My first reaction when I read it was that he was protecting you from an unwanted advance not claiming you as his own. Not sure I would have done it that way myself unless they were nice fresh, parsley-garlic fries, but to each his own.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 12:26:41 PM by mudpuppy »

lighter

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2007, 01:29:08 PM »
lighter, the french fry wars. ick ick ick.


as far as talking over loud boy to ptg, good for you.

Looking back, fancy pant boy prolly considered being ignored a very violent act.  Hence, his moving, was supposed to shame and punish me.  That may not have worked, but he scored when he lit the cigar, lol.  Darnit; )

lighter

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2007, 01:32:26 PM »
i'm going to float an alternative theory about the server taking your fry. i think he was sending a signal to loud boy, again, by doing that. it didn't work the way i think he intended, but i do believe he was trying to interpose himself between you and loud boy, to protect you. that fits with the references to loud boy's wife. loud boy claims you by eating your food, and the server puts himself in between you by taking a fry afterwards.

 

I don't think he took the fry when loud boy was paying attention.  That's why it struck me the way it did.   IF he wanted to do that, he could have brought me more frys and moved the other dish to the side.  That would have made more sense to me.  Taking the fry was just one more icky icky thing and I can't believe things like that happen to me. 

Ami

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2007, 04:17:31 PM »
I wanted to comment on something .. It is about social conventions and how N's just say"Screw it" to them. It is like the N is above "social norms". When I was 14 and gave up myself, I tried to be like my Mother. Nobody told me that she was crazy and that I should try to retain myself,not model myself after some one who had no sense.
   I tried to model myself after my mother. I tried to be "honest". To her, being honest was violating other's boundaries. I guess that in trying to be like her, I lost my sense of boundaries,which I had before..
I look back now and I realize that a person needs to have social norms to function in a social group. I think of people who are "gracious" or elegant. Much of that is respecting other's boundaries and trying to make someone else comfortable. rather than being occupied with yourself An N is always thinking about what makes THEM feel and look good. Their honesty is just a way to show off about how unconventional they are. It is just N's version of disregarding  norms because norms do not apply to N's.N's are "too superior " to follow rules that other's  follow.
When I got my dog, I read a lot of books on dogs. They have a social order with social gestures and signals. This allows them to live as a unit. My dog now follows those same rules in our family .My mother is very jealous that I  have a good dog . She made our family dog really neurotic and then we had to give it away. My point is that an N can't even respect the boundaries and needs of an animal.
  I think of people who I admire and think of as genuine. They are not "tell it all in the first 5 minutes". They have a self possession. They know how to conform to social cues while not losing themselves . This is the main point of my whole post.
  How do I maintain my "wholeness" and  be a genuine person at the same time.? This is my question. I am trying to figure this one out.
  If a person disregards social norms, then they make other people uncomfortable.  So, I guess that this is a balance like everything else.If anyone even understands my post, I would love to hear your opinions.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

gratitude28

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2007, 12:19:32 AM »
Wow, this thread is like a rope with a lot of frayed ends reaching from the core... it is such a rich posting and I am afraid I am contributing to making one more of those tributaries here... but, Storm, I had to comment on one thing...
You spoke about single moms and the men who don't want to take on responsibility. Were my husband to leave, die, whatever, I would be VERY hard pressed to take on any man until the kids were well into their own lives. A man would have to be VERY special for me to ever entertain the idea of letting him influence my children.
I fall on the side of putting the kids before any personal relationships - I think because as a child I meant so little.
Sorry all for getting off the path here, but I needed to get this out.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Stormchild

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2007, 09:50:08 AM »
Beth, I agree with you! Believe it or not, I seriously won't let a man into my home - on the most casual pretext, even - until I have good reason to believe he is genuinely kind to animals. I know, it's not the same, but it's a close as I get in my own life.

Consider this: why are there so few men you'd be willing to risk letting into your life and your children's lives, if [God forbid] you ended up raising your kids alone?

Because: Most of 'em [not all, but most] wouldn't care enough, they wouldn't invest enough, they wouldn't be there in a healthy supportive way, they wouldn't teach character and integrity. 'Cause they just can't extend themselves to care for another man's kids.

Which is exactly what I'm sayin', sista.

God bless you and your husband and your kids and keep you all together and safe, for always.
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

http://strangemercy.blogspot.com

http://potemkinsoffice.blogspot.com

gratitude28

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Re: That First Handshake. What's In It For You?
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2007, 10:28:13 AM »
Storm, I think it would matter how he treated my animals too :) Henry is one of the family, and I would be unable to accept someone who didn't adore him.
It's funny, my husband doesn't like the guinea pigs as much as we do. He grew up in a house with no animals and wasn't even too happy about Henry at first. When the piggies had babies, he was partial to one of them. But for the most part, he would be fine without animals. I am grateful that he has grown to love them, or I feel it might have caused some divide. Kind of sad, but the animals make me happy and mean so much to me. The kids are very stuck on them as well. At any rate, I think you are wise to make sure a man would accept ALL of you and your little ones to boot ;)
Off to bed... once again up too late.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams