Responsibilities and family

[tayana]

Janet,

Excellent idea.  I think I will have a print version too, just in case.  My dad already knows. I just want him there to be a buffer for me.

I've read the book before, although I never worked through the exercises.  I wasn't ready, I guess.

Ami, I know it's not going to be as pretty or easy as I think, but if I prepare myself for the confrontation this way, at least I have some armor going in.

Storm,  Thank you for this information.  I will do some reading.  My mom has threatened suicide several times.  Most recently when she found out I was planning to move.  She told me she would grieve herself to death.  A few years before that, she took a gun outside and threatened to kill herself to end her pain.  I called 911, but I didn't have the guts to tell the psychologist who came to talk to her that I thought she had made a serious threat.  She'd had a fight with my father, but I don't know what it was about.  I do know that he wouldn't lift a finger to help her.  I remember very clearly because I ended up driving thirty minutes to the hospital in the middle of the night, and I remember calling my friend crying because of what had happened.  I blamed myself for the whole mess of course.

After some distance, I don't think she really meant to commit suicide.  I don't think she would have done it.  I think she and my father had some serious words, and she was afraid he would abandon her, so she pulled this stunt for attention.  It was just a week before Thanksgiving.  It was the worst Thanksgiving of my life.

[Stormchild]

Janet,

Excellent idea.  I think I will have a print version too, just in case.  My dad already knows. I just want him there to be a buffer for me.

I've read the book before, although I never worked through the exercises.  I wasn't ready, I guess.

Ami, I know it's not going to be as pretty or easy as I think, but if I prepare myself for the confrontation this way, at least I have some armor going in.

Storm,  Thank you for this information.  I will do some reading.  My mom has threatened suicide several times.  Most recently when she found out I was planning to move.  She told me she would grieve herself to death.  A few years before that, she took a gun outside and threatened to kill herself to end her pain.  I called 911, but I didn't have the guts to tell the psychologist who came to talk to her that I thought she had made a serious threat.  She'd had a fight with my father, but I don't know what it was about.  I do know that he wouldn't lift a finger to help her.  I remember very clearly because I ended up driving thirty minutes to the hospital in the middle of the night, and I remember calling my friend crying because of what had happened.  I blamed myself for the whole mess of course.

After some distance, I don't think she really meant to commit suicide.  I don't think she would have done it.  I think she and my father had some serious words, and she was afraid he would abandon her, so she pulled this stunt for attention.  It was just a week before Thanksgiving.  It was the worst Thanksgiving of my life.

Hi tayana

that, unfortunately, is classic. My mother didn't threaten suicide; she did things like call on Thanksgiving to tell me that she was having one of her pets put to sleep. It was ill and she had allowed it to suffer for a week without saying or doing anything about it. So that she could kill it on Thanksgiving to get attention and generate drama and try to force her children to dance attendance upon her.

Same thing. Suicide by proxy, intended to ruin a holiday. Allowing an animal to suffer, so that she could stage a drama.

it amazes me how destructive and evil some people can be.

[tayana]

Storm,

I know it's bizarre, but I didn't really think about how destructive what my mom did was.  I wasn't present for her one other previous attempt at suicide.  That was right after she had neglected to make house payments on my parents house, gone to court to fight a foreclosure, and said nothing at all until two days before they had to vacate the premises.  There were tons of things that got left behind in the house.  While everyone was scrambling, trying to move, she went downstairs with a gun and was going to kill herself.  Our neighbor went down there and caught her that time and talked her out of it, but I don't think anyone called 911. 

A few years later, she and my father were having problems again, and she said, "I know your father blames me for that house . . ."

How could he not?  It was her fault the bank foreclosed.  She never took responsibility for her actions. 

So, I fully expect she'll do the suicide thing again, but this time, if I have to call 911.  I'm not going to let her intimidate me into telling the psychologist she wasn't serious. 

[Stormchild]

Tayana, if she tries this and professional intervention is warranted, then the single most useful thing you can do for the professional is to make them aware of the other times she has tried it, and what the circumstances were that led up to it then.

Don't draw any conclusions, don't suggest any. But do describe the pattern. That will give the therapist a much clearer picture of what is going on.

I hope you are spared this, but if you are not, I think you will be better prepared to deal with her now than you have ever been before.

One other thing. Get your son away from the house before moving day. He doesn't need to see her carrying on, he won't understand it. And this past history of hers is actually a very valuable tool for supporting your decision to remove him from her presence. She is unstable, manipulative, and clearly she is going to be a bad influence on him.

Use the tools you have, and you'll be amazed what you can do with them.

((((((((((Tayana))))))))))

By the way, about the business of her having a gun in the house. That needs to be locked up, separate from the ammunition, or removed from the premises entirely. Guns for self protection are one thing, but guns in the house with a [presumptive] parasuicidal borderline who has already acted out twice are another thing entirely. This is not something you discuss with her; it's probably not something you discuss with your father. You discuss it with gun experts - and I think we have at least one on this board... hopefully he'll check in here.

[Stormchild]

One additional question, tayana, and I apologize if I've missed something about this earlier.

Is your mother an alcoholic? Is she a heavy drinker?

[mudpuppy]

Hi tayana,

I guess I'm the gun expert, but you don't really need one in this case.
Guns and irrational people mix about as well as a fifth of bourbon and a two ton Buick on a rainy night.
Get the gun and remove it from the house. If she is going to threaten suicide let her do it with something that is a lot less lethal to innocent bystanders like your son.

And regardless of any gun in the house I do not think it would be wise to tell your mother the date you are planning on moving out. If it were me personally I wouldn't even tell her I was moving. But for heavens sake, if she'll do the other things she has done to you, it is almost certain she will do whatever she can to screw up moving day.

mud

[tayana]

Storm,

No my mother isn't a heavy drinker.  She doesn't drink at all.  She never has.  She is so anti-alcohol that she berates anyone who drinks in her presence.  Evidently, her father or step-father or whatever was a heavy drink and very abusive.  At least, this is what I've heard from her.  I don't really know what I believe anymore.  She once told me, because I'm a writer and she thinks I'm wasting my time, that she should write a book about her life and it would be a best-seller.  I am rather skeptical about that, but I remember telling her go for it.

If I have to have professional intervention, I will describe the pattern.  Unfortunately, removing her gun won't do much good.  My father is a collector and we have numerous guns in the house.  She told the psychologist the last time that she had the gun outside with her for protection from the coyotes.  I just rolled my eyes at that one.

I'd really rather get all of my stuff out of the house without her there.  I don't know that it will happen.  I'm sure she'll do and say all manner of hurtful things.  And probably call me every nasty name she can think of, which to continue my list:

I am not responsible for her namecalling, criticism, or back-biting.

[Sela]

Dear Tanya:

You are an inspiration!  After all you've been put through, you are still concerned with your parents welfare.  Please remember to keep your son and yourself PRIMARY on the list of concern.  That is your responsibility.

Please don't tell your parents that you are moving.  Please stop worrying about how she/they will react and start paying attention to your son's and your own health, safety and welfare.  You must be strong and clear minded, emotionally calm and clear for your son and to get this done correctly.

Please say something like:  "Something's come up and I am moving today." and refuse to give any more information.  None.  Not a phone number or an address.  You can call, later and explain that you are safe and if she starts to flip say that you will call back when she's ready to act like an adult (and I agree with Stormy, call 911 if she threatens suicide and let the professionals deal with her).  And if possible, warn your employer that your mother is having "psychological difficulties" so that if she tries to track you or pester you at work, they will have advance notice and your apologies.

Please do this and don't look back, for your son's sake and for your own.  Your life will be so much better!    You and your son do not need people like this in your life.  You really don't.

I loved reading about your dreams of forming a playgroup and Co-op and I imagine you have other dreams that you think about.  Please, go for your dreams.

You have been the adult taking care of your parents (which was not fair and quite crazy).
You must be the adult for your son, which is not only fair but healthy.
Your son is your family.
Your parents have not acted as family.

((((((((Tanya and Son))))))))

Sela

[tayana]

I love this board!

Sela, thank you so much, although I still don't consider myself inspiring.  Actually, I feel guilty and shameful about this.  I feel even more guilty that I got the apartment sooner than I planned, and so things have to happen a little faster than I'd planned.

My dad has moments when he acts like an adult, but mostly he goes into these sulks and says nothing.  The night I had to call 911 for my mom, he told me, "Go out there and talk some sense into her. I can't do anything with her."  I was so angry that night.  I was angry with my mom for pulling such a stunt, and angry with him for making me the mediator, peace-keeper, and really putting me in danger.  While I was on the phone with 911, he was sitting in the den reading, as if nothing at all was going on.  I was so mad.  I even told him before I went out to talk to my mom that he should call 911.  He wouldn't even go to the hospital.  I had to go.

It's just craziness.  I'm tired of keeping their secrets.  I really am.  That's one of the things I want to tell my mom.  That I'm not going to be her secret-keeper anymore. 

[Sela]

Tanya, your parents are nutso.

There is no shame in wanting to live and bring your son up in a sane environment.

There is more guilt to be had in staying and exposing him and yourself to their incredibly bonko behaviour than moving to an igloo with the Inuit.

Forget the past and what they've done and how they might react.  Focus on now and tomorrow and stop parenting them (sorry....I know this is blunt.  You can kick me later).

Sela

[Sela]

Sorry Tanya:

I don't mean to say that you should feel guilty for staying where you have so far.  You have been working toward leaving (by paying off the debts, ect) for such a long time and that is truly inspiring.

To stay now, out of guilt for their reactions (choices, imo).....would be something to feel guilty about later.

Don't let guilt hold you back!  You're not a bad daughter for going.  You're a good mother!!

Sela

[tayana]

Hey, Sela,

I need the kick.  I need lots of kicks, because I have a feeling the next couple of weeks are going to be very hard.

Maybe my mom will just stop talking to me, so I don't have to deal with her, and right now, an igloo with Inuit sounds pretty nice, if a bit chilly.

I have a girlfriend who left an abusive husband a few years ago.  She told me she felt really guilty when she left too.  Maybe it's normal.  Of course, I have no idea what "normal" is.

Thanks Sela, for your kind words.  I just feel guilty about moving, a little.  Today, I'm back to a combination of being scared sh**less and being so excited that I can hardly help myself.

My son and I have talked about the move.  I've been telling him all the positive things.  He wanted to know if there would be other dogs so our dog could make friends.  I told him there were other kids around so he could make friends.  There was an indoor pool so we could swim all year.  We have a little patio and the management said we could have hanging baskets and plant what we like, so we are going to make a spider garden (he loves spiders and bugs).  He will have his own bathroom, so I told him he could pick out the decorations.  He's starting to get excited too, still a little scared, but excited.

And there's no staying.  I can't back out of the lease without paying a huge penalty.  I've already had to pay a lawyer a huge retainer, I don't intend to do back out of my lease.

[Sally]

Hi Tanya,

I have not posted here in about 2 weeks, but I wanted to chime in about your feelings of anticipating telling your Mother that you're moving.  Here's my idea:

Do you have to have this confrontation/conversation with your parents?

What if you skipped the confrontation/conversation and instead just moved out and told them that you will speak to them AFTER you have finished moving?

I say this because I know how you feel.  You're picturing all these horrible scenerios in your mind which you believe will occur when the confrontation/conversation takes place.

How about just skipping the confrontation/conversation, do what YOU must do (which is move) and have the confrontation/conversation after the deed is done.

I suggest this because I remember that prior to having a confrontation/conversation with my NM, I would do mental gymnastics which would drain my emotions and energy.  The anticipation was torture, but now I seethat I tortured myself by anticipating NM's reaction (because I had heard all her BS before and could anticipate her reaction).  Now, I look back and say for what?  It was not worth wasting my energy and strength on anticipating the N's reaction.  The N will do what the N will do.  We have no control over the N's reaction.  Don't waste any more energy/emotion on your N parents than you already have.  Save yourself.

Maybe it's "cowardly" to avoid the confrontation/conversation, but if it saves you heart ache, why not?

You are so brave.  I 'm very happy for you that you are moving.  It is your act of self love and love for your son.

Sally

PS:  I'm sorry (especially to Stormchild) that I haven' t posted for a while.  I was just too emotionally drained.  I know I don't have to apologize, but I wanted to say this.

[Ami]

Sally,
  Were you emotionally drained by what came up on the board or just other life things?     Love  Ami

[Sela]

I feel relief Tanya!!  So glad you're not going to back out of that lease!  I'm relieved to hear that and see you write it!   I'm truly happy for you and your son!  You're going to be so much better off!!

As to guilt and what's normal?  Ha!  Like I would know??    I use the term usually with brackets, normal (whatever that is).  

How about learned?  How about what you learned growing up in that nutty place?  Have you been taught to feel guilt and be responsible for others?  Then, yep, it's normal.

And when you leave there and teach yourself that that kind of guilt is loony and useless and that you are only responsible for yourself and your son?  That will be normal too!!  From then on (only I'd say healthy! (whatever that is)?  Ok, healthier!  Does that make sense?

Fear?  Anything new will produce a certain amount of it, I think.  How about thinking about it as doubt?  We all have doubts.  They don't paralyze us though.  So rather than let the fear rule, maybe you can change your thoughts around to consider some reasonable doubts, think of some solutions/alternatives/bonuses/etc and maybe you won't feel quite so afraid.

Who wouldn't be afraid after what you've been through?  The trick is not to cave in to fear, in this case, since it's only temporary.  Once you're settled in your new place, enjoying the peace and tranquility that you WILL feel, knowing you're responsible for the correct stuff....yourself and your child, beginning a new life where you might actually enjoy some of your dreams.....

.......you may think:  "How the heck did I ever feel afraid of this?"

 Oh your new place sounds lovely!!  Focus on being excited and kick that guilt to the curb!!  It's not appropriate.  Tell yourself it's not appropriate.  Start the training!!

Because you have to teach your son the healthiest stuff you can!

(Hey!  We all need a kick now and then!  Besides, you've been kicking yourself more than anyone.  Just in the wrong places, maybe?)

Sela