It's done

[tayana]

Thanks Ami,

I do I suppose feel like I should have done something different, but I don't think it would have helped.
 
Did your mom get meaner as she got older?  Mine used to at least have moments of compassion, but now she's so negative that no one wants to be around her.

[JanetLG]

Tayana,

I think you did really well in your 'confrontation/conversation' with your NMum. You got across as much as was possible with her trying to turn it into a 'poor me' conversation. You should be proud of yourself for facing up to her and going ahead with what is a perfectly normal thing - an adult child leaving home. If she chooses to see it as you 'abandoning her' - tough.

You'll be much better off (and so will your son) without her interfering everyday in your lives.

You said a couple of interesting things that I'd like to comment on:
 "I have committed the ultimate sin and I have broken the silence." - This is incredibly important to N's. They have to have THEIR VERSION of the reality kept at all costs, and if you dare to show the world by defying her version and doing what YOU want, then you're what my NMum called 'wicked and sinful'. How can she show to the world what a perfect relationship she has with her daughter, if her daughter has had the cheek to MOVE OUT? How can she say 'my daughter loves me so much she can't do without me' if you're not there? Of course, many daughters have good relationships with (normal) mothers, without living in their pockets. But NMothers don't see it like that. They have their own system of behaviours that will 'prove' to the world their way of looking at things, and , to her, you're not playing the game any more.

Tough.

You also said do they get meaner as they get older? Well, mine certainly has done. Possibly, that's because I refused to 'toe the line'. If I'd done as she said, and annihilated my personality in the process, I could have 'contained her' a bit, but I doubt it. I've read that they get worse with age, and more and more lonely, as more people get sick and tired of the behaviour they receive from them, and that they tend to die very lonely people. But that's for her to deal with, not you. Your job is to bring up your son, and it sounds like you are doing a great job, despite difficulties. I'm sure he'll do much better with the kind of activities you are trying to arrange for him. If you end up a bit cramped in an apartment because you've got too many belongings to start off with, at least you won't have the one item that could spoil the whole thing - your mother! It'll be great once you get used to the changes.

Janet

[Ami]

Dear Tayana,
   I think that any show of independence in thought or action brings out the viciousness.
   I don't live near her now. However, when I wanted to be "independent" of her 'decimating me over the phone, she was enraged that I would try to get a sense of self.
   The really "funny" thing was that all my life, she  decimated me for being "too dependent." That is what I am seeing now and partly why I am having these panic attacks.
  She ridiculed, decimated, criticized, humiliated, lashed out at  and destroyed me because I was too dependent. All the while ,she was trying to make me dependent.
   It is almost too much for a person to bear--- Don't you think?            Love   Ami

[tayana]

Thanks Janet.  I tried to be an non-argumentative and calm as I could, but we'll see how much undoing I have to do with my son tonight.  I will not be amused if she has dug her claws into him, so to speak and fed him a bunch of lies.

They have to have THEIR VERSION of the reality kept at all costs, and if you dare to show the world by defying her version and doing what YOU want, then you're what my NMum called 'wicked and sinful'.

Well, I must say, that's how she's trying to make me feel.  She's being just as nasty as she can be.  She called me at work today to tell me that she's glad I'm moving, and that she has enough furniture to furnish my apartment.  I own enough furniture to furnish an apartment.  I'm almost to the point of saying, I don't want anything from you.  I'll do this on my own.

She has gotten progressively meaner, especially in the last couple of years.  She has these delusions that everyone is out to get her.  I'm just hoping she doesn't do something truly stupid in front of my son.

Ami, my mom likes to keep me dependent.  I'm not allowed to be independent.  This has also gotten worse in the last couple of years.  And to do that she criticizes, demeans and generally tells me I'm not smart enough to leave her, that I need her like some form of parisitic virus.  She just finally took things too far, and I got tired of being her host.

[Hopalong]

SO glad and impressed and delighted and sympathetic for you, Tayana.

One quick thing: UGGGHH, the offer of furniture. This is the "change back!" and it's also bait. If you crack one inch of YOUR new space open to HER furnishing "contributions"--I truly believe you'll regret it.

I hope you can say something like, thanks for offering and I'll let you know if I need anything. I am going to spend some time with the space before I decide what we need, if anything.

She'll RUSH right back with, but you need this and where's M going to keep his toys and I have this blahblah that you could have blablablabalablablablablablabla.......

Hmm. I think I'm projecting. What a nerve this touched. Oh, right. I suffer from Repressed Decor Syndrome.

Anyhoo, projection or not, I think she might try to morph into Your Best Furnishing Pal and I'd keep saying NO until you are certain YOU need something. It just seems like a way for her to get (over)involved in your life again.

God knows you don't need her coming over with excuse after excuse. Yoo hoo! I brought you a BATH MAT!!! 

hugs to you and congratulations, this has been huge growth, hasn't it?

Hops

[tayana]

Yoo hoo! I brought you a BATH MAT!!!   

Oh Hops, I needed that laugh!  She would so do that too.

I figure after she realizes I don't intend to back down, she'll want to come over and decorate it for me.  No way are we doing that.  She'll go on for hours about what she could do with this and that something else.  She was a decorator you know, and she was one of the best there was, and no doubt she could do wonders with the place.

It has been a huge growth.  I'll be glad when we're moved though.

[CB123]

hee hee 

I'm sorry for laughing, Tayana--but she is so TRANSPARENT!  ("okay, the mean act isnt going to work, now I think I'll try the helpful act")

Stick to your guns!  You're almost out.

CB

[tayana]

  CB!

She is very transparent.  It was very freeing once I realized how transparent she was.

[JanetLG]

Hops, I think I've got this, too:

"I suffer from Repressed Decor Syndrome"

Tayana,

One thing my NMum used to do before I really went berserk at her and told her NEVER TO DO IT AGAIN was, she'd go into my house when I was at work or on hooliday (she had I key that took me ages to get off her), and she'd re-arrange my kitchen cupboards, move the furniture around,etc...

Used to drive me crazy!!
She had no boundaries whatsoever. Be careful yours doesn't try it with you. It's classic 'clawing you back' metaphorically.

Janet

[tayana]

Oh, Janet, I don't intend to give her a key . . . I figure that's the easiest way to avoid that situation.  She'll probably have a cow over that, but oh well.

[Stormchild]

Did your mom get meaner as she got older?  Mine used to at least have moments of compassion, but now she's so negative that no one wants to be around her.

Yes yes and yes. I think all Ns do. The universe just keeps stubbornly refusing to let them be at the center of it... and they get madder and madder and madder. An aging N is a horrible, horrible thing to be in forced proximity to.

Good on you for not giving her a key. Make very very sure your landlord has it in writing from you that she is not to be given one by the office under any circumstances...


(((((((((( ))))))))))

[tayana]

I didn't think it was my imagination that she was getting meaner.  She has not said one word to me since I came home.  Doesn't bother me all that much, it's just irritating.  I'd rather have her say nothing than start with a guilt trip or else telling me all sorts of nonsense.

Oh Stormy, thanks for that tip.  I didn't even think of that.

[Stormchild]

tayana... she was a decorator?

oh, that explains so much. her entire life was about surfaces and appearances, about image.

i'm not putting down decorators, a really good decorator will bring out the 'soul' of a place. just saying... there are a lot of not so good ones out there who are just into the latest 'look'; every place they 'do' feels empty and cold.

CB is right. when meanness fails, she'll probably try the 'helpful' thing next. It's about control.

But that's not the end of the line. When that fails, watch for her to try the 'frosty superior attitude' thing. That's a  fallback position when an N realizes you've got his or her number but good; the nose goes into the air and the fingers go into the ears. [And at least in the case of my mother, the rumors go into the mill, and the knives go into the back ].

This will still be about control, but not about controlling you; once she realizes she can't control you, she'll shift her efforts to controlling others' perceptions of her and of you. Image management. Once Ns discover this behavior, they resort to it very quickly when someone is 'on' to them and refuses to be controlled by them. It's basically the mean routine, left in the freezer overnight.

Since she's already giving you the silent treatment, hopefully she'll move into this mode sooner rather than later. It will give you a break. However, don't let your guard down. Given her past criminal history, she's perfectly capable of further escapades involving your money and her mitts, regardless of which act she happens to be putting on at any given time.

Edit in: This is basically your standard bully behavior. I've been on and off the site this last week, I think it was elculbr who found Tim Field's bullying site, let me put a link here and see if you recognize the symptoms.

http://www.bullyonline.org/familybully/index.htm  this is the family bullying page

this is the attention-seeker profile - on first glance it does look a lot like your mother's patterns

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm#Types

hope this helps. the more you understand, the better your conscious defenses can become...

[Sela]

Tayana,

Sorry I've been spelling your name wrong in my posts.

I just noticed and feel badly.  I didn't look closely enough.

  Sela

[tayana]

Not a problem, Sela.

Stormy, yes she was a decorator, and so we always hear about how well she could do, or how good she was, etc.

She tried to talk to me about the weather earlier, but I wasn't having any.  If you ask her, I'm the one giving her the silent treatment.  It works two ways though.  The helpful thing will be even worse.

And I'm sure she'll badmouth me to everyone she knows and tell them how awful I am and that I think she was mean to my son.

Thanks for the links.  I do agree with the attention seeker profile.  That's definitely her.  I have played on the bullyonline website before in regards to a bully boss.  That was a real treat a bully mom and a bully boss.