What makes me do this?

[WRITE]

crusade I mean.
Our new pastor at church has so far:
begun men-only prayer sessions before services;
preached that people who don't believe in the risen Jesus as their Saviour are lost;
told us to admonish each other in church: 'you will be held accountable' and today 'you need to pay attention'!
and to lay hands of prayer on each other.

I am really uncomfortable with it all, it smacks of cult to me, and exclusivity and sexism.

I started to write to him to tell him how I feel then stopped myself.

Why do I always feel i ahve to take everything on like this?
I just spent months at that church working to get things back on track for the music ministry.

I was supposed to be taking a break from there, not delving into the fray some more.

I should just back off and find a more compatible place to be right?

This once if i just leave something and get on with my own happiness will the world fall apart......?

[guest101]

a thought (?) perhaps  distraction -- as long as we're busy with everyone (and thing else) we don't have to look at ourselves.

[sea storm]

Dear Write

You are not responsible for this situation or for this minister. Hand it over to a higher power and see what happens. It sounds like you are a force for balance and gentility in your church. In the end that is always the best way.
I agree with you in saying your piece in a way that is assertive. You need to do that for you. But the likelihood of actually changing the whole scene? Doubtful.
Good that you come here and work it out.
what is laying on of hands. That sounds very old school. is it an unfortunate way of saying pat your brothers and sisters on the back? Or what?

Thanks for bringing this up.
Sea storm

[JanetLG]

Write,

Your response it very similar to the way I tend to handle things. I have been told I have a 'fairness button' that gets pushed very easily, and that anything I see that isn't right, or just, or equal, I feel *I* have to do something about it. Is that a bad thing? Sometimes. As guest 101 said, it might just be a distraction to avoid looking inwards, but it might also be that if (like me) you suffered a lot of *injustice* in your childhood, you are more aware of it when you see instances of it now.

What you are describing in your church *does* sound sexist and a bit cultish. I think I would still write the letter, to give myself peace of mind that I'd at least *tried*, but I wouldn't hold out much hope of anything changing. Can you write to him, and also send a copy at the same time to someone senior to him, so that it doesn't become a 'secretive' kind of grumble? Have you mentioned your concerns to anyone else in the congregation, or is the feeling that you have to put your feelings in writing your very first thought?

Janet

[Hopalong]

Hi Write,
I don't think you owe them 5 minutes. I think toxic things are going on there, unfortunately.
Have you tried Unity, or Sojourners?

Or the Society of FRiends?

love
Hops

[Overcomer]

It all depends on what kind of church it is.  I know many churchs have prayer ministries and you can go to someone who will put their hands on your shoulders and pray for you.  The men only prayer group?  As long as there is an opportunity for the women to have their own groups then it seems alright to me-like our town has a big mens ministry-kinda like Promise Keepers.  But if you do not believe as they do, then you probably need to find a church where they believe like you do.

[lighter]

Wow Write:

You just ticked off some very good reasons why I've never felt good about attending orgaized religious services.

I'm with ya on the whistle blowing urge though.

I'm also sorry you put all that energy into the music program, and stand to see it all go for naught, if you leave.

I also would understand if you just picked up and started visiting other churches.... found one that you felt good in.  

Again.

On the whole, if you really feel that the church is being harmed by this new man.... it's almost impossible to DO NOTHING, at least from where I'm standing.

I just don't think it will work out well for you.  And I don't want to see you get hurt.

Again.  I see the theme of this whole scenario as being IMPROBABLE and UNFAIR.  

What the hell?  Are people sheep?  Can't they see when someone is harming their beloved institution?  Can't they stand up for themselves?  

I want you to accomplish something, if you do anything at all.  Not just ostracize yourself and make others, who wanted to be brave and were on the cusp, be more fearful and never risk for their principles.  Especially the women and young girls.  KWIM?

[tayana]

Write,

I would find a new place of worship, one that is more in line with my beliefs.  I tend to avoid confrontation though.

You could always go to the next higher power above your pastor and complain though, or just ask him what the deal is.  It is unfair, and I wouldn't care for his attitude at all.

[teartracks]

WRITE,

Why do I do it?  I mean crusade.  Well, dear one, I think we all do it to a degree.  But when we do it to the point where it is OBVIOUS even to ourselves, then it's troublesome.  I know exactly how you feel.  Accepting that I was a 'fixer' (shock absorber in the car type) often in  crusade mode was a hurdle in itself.  Wanting now to change that about me is an even bigger crusade/hurdle. 

About the situation you're in, (turning into the fixer here), this is a new pastor.  Transition is a huge part of life period.  Your church is in transition.  He is in transition.  Seems to me that until the transition period passes, there's not much to do but wait.  When the transition period is finished, the next step will be pretty clear.  Are you prepared to just wait for a while?

tt
PS  About churches, it helped me a lot to google how churches are set up or how churches are governed.  Knowing how your church is ruled governmentally might be a big help. 

[WRITE]

Thank you friends.

A mixed lot of advice which made me realise, I have to live my convictions I guess.

I prayed during the night and opened my bible and it was Matthew 12 32

"whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in this time or that to come"

It was exactly what i needed to hear.

However you are right also that it is not my responsibility and that the place is in transition.

I am going to write to the minister about how it made me feel, as I want to take a break from there for a while and go to help another place which needs a musician.

His response will tell me what i need to know.

I can say things kindly and neutrally; and maybe I do have some vested interest having spent the last six months smoothing over the last set of crises- which I know full well isn't any reason to be involved in this one!

There probably isnt much point in trying to change what is happening.

you know I don't believe that CB! I've been trying to change the situation with my ex for years!

Nil desperandum....

Today I feel like i should do what I can do, and then forget about it.

Maybe the man is lost like so many of these evangelical people who have set up mean-spirited ideologies which truly do not sustain either spirituality or daily living. If he is unreceptive or I am the one out of step I will move on. Fast if it gets abusive Hops!
 
Thanks y'all ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[lighter]

If you care, you say something.  If you don't, you don't say anything and you move on. 

Giving them information is just to help them.

Save yourself the effort if you don't care.  Of course, I know you do or you wouldn't have posted.

<sigh>  Circular circular circular thinking. 

No easy answers. 

I believe your intentions are positive.  You aren't interested in criticizing for the sake of shaming, right?

Heck, there was a huge war in an Epsicopal church, I went to a few times, in this neck of the woods.

Half the church was doing the speaking in tongues thing and the other half was very conservative.  Complete division and half the church ended up leaving over it.  New blood, new direction.  Personally, it creeped me out to have people yelling out "THERE'S AN UNBELIEVER IN OUR MIDST!"  a few pews behind me,  Always the one to feel guilty, it bothered me and I just knew everyone was staring at me, lol. 

Not wrong, just not the way I feel comfortable worshipping.  You should feel comfortable where you pray.

[WRITE]

You aren't interested in criticizing for the sake of shaming, right?

no. I would never shame anyone these days under any circumstances.

I wrote a bit of a long email and put it from my perspective but said I wasn't upset if he didn't feel I belonged there.

It depends what he is trying to create I guess.

There's a lot of N attitudes in religiob I have found, people assuming their perspective is right and the only one worth considering; I don't think i am doign that.
But nor will I sit by and sanction sexism or prejudice either.

it creeped me out to have people yelling out "THERE'S AN UNBELIEVER IN OUR MIDST!"  a few pews behind me,

good gracious. How abusive. I would definitely leave if they did that.

You should feel comfortable where you pray.

yup. I am close to G_d in most places, but I felt vulnerable and annoyed in church on Sunday.

[lighter]

Honestly, Write.

I hardly ever get any good prayers in at church.  It was always a struggle to sit through the entire hour with little children and then all that off key singing..... oops.  Nothing personal.  Just not a singer, outside of the car, and if they were at all in tune, or doing that really cool chanting stuff they seem to save for every other blue moon, I'd complain less.

As it is, I got to a point where I "connected dots."  Made realizations about life, even if I didn't sing or appreciate the droning on of others.  Or pray and when I pray I either make a connection or I don't.  Like looking at one of those pictures that turns into something else 3D if you stare at it long enough.  Praying isn't just asking for stuff, IMO.  I don't think most people make connections when they do it.  <shrug>  It's upsetting to sit in a church and be unable to pray bc of all the distractions and noise and people looking around at my kids coloring in bibles...  just kidding. 


It was the hymnals; )

No really, just kidding and I'd much prefer to sit in a completely quiet church and meditate.  Such is the introvert's plight: /

[Lupita]

All churches made me feel bad. Never felt well in church. If I get a job in a regular school I will not go to church anymore. I only go because I work in a Christian school. But I am very tired, pastors are selfish narcissistic witches. The want to be worshiped, and if you say no to something they feel attacked.

I will read my bible, and pray, but I am looking for a job in public school. God help me.

[lighter]

::Sigh::  Lupita.

I find it hard to say this, surprised I am really but.... if you get something out of church, find one that you enjoy and feel comfortable in.  Don't let the hypocritichristians drive you from it, if you really want to go.

On the other hand, you don't need church to connect with God or be a spiritual being.  I sometimes go to church when it's empty and I actually pray well in that setting. I enjoy the quiet, the stained glass and the feeling that God may actually be there.  When the church is full..... I have the feeling God wouldn't approach it, under any circumstances.  Wow, that's how I really feel!

Where I pray best.... is at home.   When I pray best?  When I'm in pain or take the time to appreciate what I have.  What do I ask for?  Never mind but know this, I take the time to offer empathy to Jesus, when I can.  It can't be an easy job, that.