Doubts

[lighter]

I think I like your therapist.

I don't think I like you're having to have conrtinued confrontations with your mother.... esp over M.

Is this confrontation supposed to happen "over here" at your over here?  If so, I hope M isn't going to be there when it does. 

Glad to hear you're feeling better.  I just want to reach in and pull all her mean words from your head and heart.  I wish I could ((tayana))

[Sela]

Hi Tayana:

Glad you got moved and have already enjoyed fresh baked muffins with your son!  What a lovely picture that is!

One question:  Must you have any conversation, never mind confrontation, with your mother about what your son will be doing at any time whatsoever?

I guess I'm thinking you don't have to allow that and that if you do, then she will be in control......trying to get her way etc.

Sela

[lighter]

tayana:

I thought you made other arrangements for M before camp starts.

Do you need your mother's help with childcare, still?

Maybe I wished so hard I thought it was true but, I can't see anything good coming from unsupervised visits with your mother.  You have to assume she's going to outright poison M, if only emotionally.  That's unacceptable and you can't allow that, if at all possible.

[tayana]

Lighter, I do still need her help for a couple of weeks with childcare, just a couple of weeks when I don't have camp available or any other solution, although I'm hoping another opportunity presents itself.  I had already made arrangements for the rest of this week, but now we are fighting over whether or not M is going to stay with her.  He wanted to attend Bible school at our old church next week, or at least the church where he's been attending.  She wants him to stay with her that week too.  I don't think he's going to want to do that.  That's what the argument is about.  Nothing good is going to come of him spending oodles of time with her.

Today, my parents showed up for a surprise visit.  I'd decided to slow down a little and relax as much as possible.  So she harped on every little thing she could find from the food in my refridgerator, to the way my furniture was arranged, to the fact that I can't find a place for my dog to stay while we're gone.  The she got ticked off when I asked what time we were supposed to be at her house for the fourth, and she was ticked because M was watching TV and didn't tell her good-bye.  I felt like I'd just been snubbed.  She kept saying, "Well I know this your house but . . ."

I'm going to get mighty sick of that phrase.  We're going to go to the library and maybe stop at the park.

[Ami]

Tayana ----- You did it. I am so proud of you. You are doing GREAAT              Love  Ami

[Hopalong]

Good going, Tay. You sound a lot better.

She kept saying, "Well I know this your house but . . ."

I'm going to get mighty sick of that phrase.

You'll only get sick of it if you don't say to your mother:

I want you to call me to find out if it's a good time, not just come over without calling.

Have faith, you're moving on step by step. It'll take a while to untangle her tentacles
and learn to set and hold boundaries.

I think maybe one thing is that you need to actually genuinely WANT them first.

Hops

[lighter]

Drats on needing your mother's help with M.  Double DRATS!

You're going to have to come up with something.... that much is clear.

On letting your mother come into your home and BOTHER the stink out of you..... ummmm..... I don't think it's possible to tune out everything she says and nod absent mindedly. 

I say set your boundaries, complete with consequences for peeing on them, then enforce and follow through.  Ruthlessly enforce..... and follow through.  Like you're in a race to the finish.   

Try to see this from a great distance and remove emotion as much as possible. 

For my part, I think this a futile effort and waste of time.  We all get to the end of our rope in our own time on our own   odd path.  You're not ready to be done with her yet.  You need her help.  You just haven't broken ties and you're not feeling it yet.  I think you eventually will and I'll be breathing a sigh of relief for you when that day comes. 

Sorry this is so traumatic and ongoing and confusing but I imagine you'll grow 150% by the time you overcome all these problems.   

[tayana]

Lighter, it's going to be a couple of weeks probably before I can start setting some of those boundaries.  A lot of my stuff, including clothes and that sort of thing is still at their house. 

I swore I was going over there for the fourth, but I'm going.  I need to get clothes and some other things, including my son's aquariums.  I really wanted to stay home, but I also need things.

As soon as I get more of my stuff in order, and most of my things out of her house, I'm going to sit down and decide what boundaries I want, and what consequences there'll be for breaking them. 

I think maybe one thing is that you need to actually genuinely WANT them first.

I think this is true, hops.  I think I'm still looking for their approval.  I'm still waiting to hear, wait, I was wrong after all.  You did do the right thing.  I just have to let that go.  My father is just as bad as my mother.  He never criticizes just mopes around.  I  never realized just how toxic the pair of them was until I could show them to the door.

I'm already feeling better, Lighter.  In fact, I'm going to go wash the tools for my pretty mixer and make some banana bread.

[BonesMS]

Lighter, I do still need her help for a couple of weeks with childcare, just a couple of weeks when I don't have camp available or any other solution, although I'm hoping another opportunity presents itself.  I had already made arrangements for the rest of this week, but now we are fighting over whether or not M is going to stay with her.  He wanted to attend Bible school at our old church next week, or at least the church where he's been attending.  She wants him to stay with her that week too.  I don't think he's going to want to do that.  That's what the argument is about.  Nothing good is going to come of him spending oodles of time with her.

Today, my parents showed up for a surprise visit.  I'd decided to slow down a little and relax as much as possible.  So she harped on every little thing she could find from the food in my refridgerator, to the way my furniture was arranged, to the fact that I can't find a place for my dog to stay while we're gone.  The she got ticked off when I asked what time we were supposed to be at her house for the fourth, and she was ticked because M was watching TV and didn't tell her good-bye.  I felt like I'd just been snubbed.  She kept saying, "Well I know this your house but . . ."

I'm going to get mighty sick of that phrase.  We're going to go to the library and maybe stop at the park.

Oh Tay!

I can identify with your reaction to that stupid phrase:  "Well I know this is your house but....."!  It took a while for both my Nmother and another Nmother-figure to get the message that there are certain boundaries they are NOT allowed to cross!

To share a little bit of my recent moving experience:

I had been subletting an apartment for nearly 20 years when the neighborhood went downhill so bad that I realized it was time to get outta there!  There had been a barricade situation in the apartment directly below mine plus idiots smoking and dealing drugs in the hallway right outside my apartment door.  One of the drug dealers threatened to kill me because I would not condone his dealing in front of my door.  Since the apartment lease was in the original lessor's name, I informed her that I was in the process of purchasing my condo and was preparing to move.  She had a fit and attempted to ORDER me NOT to move (ignoring the fact that she is now living in a different state and has NOT seen this neighborhood for several years).  Then she was dumb enough to threaten me with eviction if I DARED to DEFY her orders!  I went ahead with my arrangements to purchase my condo.  When she attempted to make good her threat and took her name off the lease with the landlord, I went ahead and moved as I had been planning to do all along.  About five years after I moved, I had contact with her again and she, again, threatened to evict me from her apartment!  Imagine her surprise when I reminded her of my moving five years before and that her apartment was LONG GONE!  She threw another fit, stating that she NEVER gave me permission to move and that God told her to tell me that I was WRONG to DEFY her orders!!

I told her, quite bluntly, that (1) she is NOT my mother, (2) she does NOT own me, (3) she does NOT pay my bills and (4) she does NOT have an exclusive pipeline to God!  She hasn't spoken much to me since.

Bones

[tayana]

My mom and I worked out a deal where she would meet me, and I would drop M off.  Imagine my surprise this morning as I'm taking out my dog and the trash to discover her in my parking lot.  I was not amused.  I was even less amused that now she's going to be bringing M back, instead of me meeting her as planned.  She complained about doing this.

Yesterday, I got a lecture because I let M decide if he wanted to stay with Grandma or not.  He wanted to stay with me, and even made a comment, "Here we are back at our house,' last night when we got home.  He didn't want to stay with Grandma all night.

I figured out this morning what my mom's problem is.  She's jealous.  She's jealous because M wants to be with me, not her.  She's jealous because I did something she's always wanted to do.  She's jealous because I'm able to do this, and she's angry because, in her narrow little mind, I've poisoned M against her. 

I asked M last night when we left my parents' house if he still felt sad.  He said a little, but that he was really starting to like his new home. 

Bones, I can so identify with what your saying.  Any doubts I might have had about moving were erased when getting ready to go this morning was so smooth and easy.  There were no fights.  No yelling.  No snapping.  Everything is so peaceful and quiet.  I've felt more relaxed in the last few days, than I have in the last few years.  No pressure, no worries, no wondering if someone was going to go through my things.  It's so wonderful, and that M and my dog are settling in and feeling at home, makes it even more so.

[CB123]

Tayana,

It's interesting to me how similar your mother's response is to my NH's.  All the same stuff--jealousy, not following agreed on arrangements, accusations of "turning the kids against me". 

The feelings of peace and relaxation are also the same.  Ahhhhh.  No more nonsense!

CB

[tayana]

Oh, CB, I love it.  I cooked in my kitchen.  I worked on my finances last night without interruption.  It is so awesome.

The jealousy thing though. . . I hadn't figured it out until this morning.  She honestly thinks M likes me better than her.  It's really sad.

[lighter]

HOPS said: I think maybe one thing is that you need to actually genuinely WANT them first.

I think this is true, hops.  I think I'm still looking for their approval.  I'm still waiting to hear, wait, I was wrong after all.  You did do the right thing.  I just have to let that go.  My father is just as bad as my mother.  He never criticizes just mopes around.  I  never realized just how toxic the pair of them was until I could show them to the door.

I'm already feeling better, Lighter.  In fact, I'm going to go wash the tools for my pretty mixer and make some banana bread.

I'd imagine that a fresh loaf of banana bread would make me feel better too, lol. 

On what Hops said, above...... I was thinking about how much I'm enjoying my house and how good life will be and feeling just a tad sad about my N not being able to appreciate it or be swayed by how nice the children and I are. 

He won't ever be decent or appreciative. 

EVER. 

He'll be cruel and continue to exploit whomever is in his lfe. 

It made me so sad. 

I felt the loss. 

I also noted my own dissapointment at having to give up hope that I can control his responses. 

I invested a lot of time and energy in that belief. 

It's a failure, a loss a death to let that hope go.

I can't be creative enough, or industriouse enough or beautiful enough or desirable enough or ANYTHING enough to make him regret his treatment of me and cause him to change his behavior and intentions. 

His view on life is what it is,  no matter what I do. 

There is no hope of getting any of my needs met.  ::shrug:: Just have to make peace with it, even when it burns my stomach to think about it.  My stomachs  burning now.   

You'll mourn letting go of the hope for decent parents. 

You never had that so there's nothing but the loss of the dream, (and your old habits and behavior patterns) That has to mourned too, along with replacing them with healthier habits. 

YIKES! 

Talk about a tough spot to be in. 

Just very very confusing and sad.  ((tayana))

Glad to hear M is setting in. 

[Ami]

Dear Tayana,
   The things that they will be jealous of--- Does it descend any lower.?It makes N sense that she would want M to love her more. It is awful ,but makes sense.
   I told you what really floored me was how much she resented that I had a trained dog and she screwed up the family dog.She is also very jealous that I have "decent 'kids. She is always waiting and hoping that they will go "bad". When my son had a hard time getting acclimated to college- she loved it. He even noticed that  she seemed disappointed when he pulled himself out of it.She hates it that he is doing well academically and socially.

[tayana]

Lighter, I think I'm starting to let the idea go a little.  I don't want my parents in my new home, and at some point, I think that will happen.  The banana bread was good. 

Ami, my mother loves it when I get frustrated with M too.  She delights every time I express frustration.  She makes a point of saying something like, "I knew you couldn't be around him all day by yourself."  She doesn't like to see M settling in and enjoying his new home and not wanting to be with her.  Instead, she tears him in two directions.  Either he has to stay with me or with her.  Today, she told me not to sign him up but for one week of camp just in case he didn't like it.  I stuck with my original plan, slightly revised.  I signed him up for the two he was most excited about, and will discuss the third with him this weekend. 

She doesn't like seeing me independent like this.  I about fell over this morning when she told me my living room looked nice.  I had done some cleaning last night, and she was impressed.