Externalising and bad objects

[axa]

I have been thinking over the past few days about happiness, joy, peace, contentment.  And I have come to a conclusion.  I have been wired to always look to the external to give me happiness.  This also works in reverse I think, the pain I feel  I also look to the external for the reason.  Not sure if I can make myself clear but will try anyway.

I know that XN was an abusive, controlling.........POS.  I will never doubt that because I have the truth of my experience but I am beginning to think about moving on.  There seems to me to be something connected with my externalising my blame and pain which will keep me tied into the cycle.  I have thought that if I own the part of me which is capable of abuse etc then it frees me from being hooked in to XN...... does this make sense to people.  I studied Object Relations some years ago and I think these thoughts are tied into that theory.  Also, something about being in relationship with Ns keeps my N mother alive.  It is as if I have internalised the bad object and need to experience human manifestations of it which will free me from feeling that part of me.  THis makes some sort of sense to me. 

My theory is that if I can own the part bad object I have internalised and integrate it(me) then it releases me from the pattern of N relationships.  I am aware of my need to split when there is real anxiety, this is when I revert back to being a very small child.  Maybe splitting is also a part of what is going on.

Would really appreciate comments on this as I feel it is something big for me........... hope it makes some kind of sense to you.

axa

[sunny2]

I have been thinking over the past few days about happiness, joy, peace, contentment.  And I have come to a conclusion.  I have been wired to always look to the external to give me happiness.  This also works in reverse I think, the pain I feel  I also look to the external for the reason.  Not sure if I can make myself clear but will try anyway.

I know that XN was an abusive, controlling.........POS.  I will never doubt that because I have the truth of my experience but I am beginning to think about moving on.  There seems to me to be something connected with my externalising my blame and pain which will keep me tied into the cycle.  I have thought that if I own the part of me which is capable of abuse etc then it frees me from being hooked in to XN...... does this make sense to people.  I studied Object Relations some years ago and I think these thoughts are tied into that theory.  Also, something about being in relationship with Ns keeps my N mother alive.  It is as if I have internalised the bad object and need to experience human manifestations of it which will free me from feeling that part of me.  THis makes some sort of sense to me. 

My theory is that if I can own the part bad object I have internalised and integrate it(me) then it releases me from the pattern of N relationships.  I am aware of my need to split when there is real anxiety, this is when I revert back to being a very small child.  Maybe splitting is also a part of what is going on.

Would really appreciate comments on this as I feel it is something big for me........... hope it makes some kind of sense to you.

axa

hi axa..
as you requesteth ..comments on this  and whilie i am at it on some of that too:)

first to me it seems you are pretty consistent in the way you word your thoughts and part of that consistency is recognizing that maybe you havent reached the full consistency on a topic of concern.... and to me seeking consistency is a big key to finding the true connection and oneness with that which is within and that is without.... where you know you cannot only love your enemy but know how to rebuke when some sin against you and do it with love even tho they might twist your words and meanings and jump on whatever mistakes you might make to avoid seeing their part their mistakes played in the concern....
part of this is that all can be transformed into their full wonderful spiritual potential ..if not this life then the next and if the cycle of reincarnation for salvation is stopped and maybe all dont make it this time , maybe another creation and cycle of reincarnition in a destroyed and re created material solar system or universe..as the case may be..which at present i am not at liberty to divulge...   ..uh actually dont know that one for sure >.....
the to me false doctrine many find as if it is in the bible of eternal damnation of a soul, is a sign of the lack of spiritual maturity of many christians and jews and muslims for that matter...not that if someone believes in reincarnation in the bible and reincarnation that they might be more guilty of things that grieve the spirit than those who ....believe a soul can be eternally damned or for that matter as some jehovah witnesses believe i think that the soul does not eternally suffer but ceases to exist as a divine eternal individual entity...

but then if you are not likely to approach this concern from that perspective....
some belief that any are able to see their faults and change for the better where they might be on the same better positive level towards things that you embrace..
yet their remains the question of how one relates to others who attempt to drag you down and seem not to  postiively change to any good shown them but rather tiwst it around for their own self aggrandizement... by the by to me the difference between a narciissist and a psychopath is that the narcissist want others to feel the same way about themselves as others about how wonderful they are,, the psychopath could generally give a rat's ass ..their sense of entitilement is not dependent on others but on raw power and deceit... ..perhaps there can be mixtures some way of the 2 ...hmmmm ... i might try to think that aspect thru some more....

but then again there is the possibility that some are so fixated in a narcissistic or psychopathic way that it might seem and be true that they probably will never change in this lifetime...oops that is right u might not believe in opportunities after this life:)
but if one is perhaps correct that nothing might bring a person to change in their present lifetime....


okay leave that one hangin there for now..
now about the internal and external YOU SAID...
 I have been wired to always look to the external to give me happiness.
NOW
one's own happiness ultimately i think is linked unconditionally to the external...
but by seeing how all is one...like the buddhist monk who when asked how he wanted his hot dog...ONE WITH EVERYTHING...
but one must be able to think in eternal terms to fully see this with a mind that transcends the finite mind of man
but uses the finite mind of man as key to linking to the universal mind where all may be of one mind in christ....christ as created by go and all things created thru christ..

in said univerasl mind one sees the source of goodness that created this material universe and space and time with a divine purpose
and finds the oneness with the all or the whole by seeing or strving for this attitude...
to consider the needs of others before ones own....
now mind you some might need rebuked with love
but the rebuke is to help bring them with repentance so you can better forgive them...

wow okay  yada yada yada

[Ami]

Dear Axa,
   I heard your 'cry for help' and I wanted to add some ideas.There is something called internal locus of control(I think is the name) and external locus of control.External locus is when you take your cues for who you are and what you feel from outside yourself. It can be people,jobs, material things(status)etc   Internal locus is when you have a center from which you operate. Your center determines your value. Your center determines your  emotions and reaction in situations.Basically. you know who you are--- separate from what other's tell you..
  I think that you are wrestling with this.
  The other thing that you mentioned was"owning" all your traits so you would not have to have someone else fill the ones that you "threw out". I think that we get in to N relationships for just this reason. We are "broken" and we want to feel better. Whatever we use to feel better( an N relationship, alcohol, shopping, food etc) does not work long term. Then, we are more screwed up. I think that you are right,Axa. It is about owning the "good" and the "bad" .Then, you won't need to find the other half in an N.
   I had many ways to "keep my mother" alive. I was sick,fearful and dependent like she was.. If I had these qualities, then she was with me. .I am facing this "magical thinking".
  I think that the saying,"To thine own self be true and you won't be false to another(paraphrase) is what you are saying. Our job(VERY HARD) is to find out who we are,love and make peace with it. Then ,chose a companion who will walk alongside us . If we need the companion to do  psychic surgery  on us--- we are in trouble.. I am struggling right alongside you, Axa. It is easier to see someone else's situation than our own. I hope that I helped.         Love   Ami

 

[Hopalong]

Hi Axa,
This makes great sense to me and sounds like clear thinking:

something about being in relationship with Ns keeps my N mother alive.  It is as if I have internalised the bad object and need to experience human manifestations of it which will free me from feeling that part of me.

I don't understand a lot about splitting, but I'd hazard you are thinking just as clearly about that, too.

Good going. Sometimes you just pull a particular brick out of a wall and the whole thing starts to crumble.

Hops

[sea storm]

I think we reproduce the patterns we experienced as children with our parents in a very serious effort to work out the confusion, pain and denial we experienced with our N parent. As children the pain of not being unconditionally loved was so unbearable that we clicked into denial. It was a blessing at the time so that we could survive.

When I think of how my relationshiip with my N partner was like my relationship with my Nmom there are many parallels.

The ego strength that people who have loving parents and lots of positive mirroring is a lifelong gift.  These people have inner resources and self esteem and consequently are not so reliant on their sense of identity coming from other people. This is where we are really vulnerable. Someone who is manipulative can really play with this by alternately valuing us and devaluing us. This is very dangerous psychologically and is the lynchpin of the problem of codependence I think.

The saving grace and the way to go I think is to develop inner locus of control rather than be wired to someone else for validation.  With ego strength one can have healthy boundaries. If ANYONE treats a person with a healthy ego in an abusive way they get bitten instantaneously and they learn quickly not to cross the line.

I think that it is attainable to achieve this inner strength rather than relying on the outside validation.  I sure want to grow in that way. There are lots of other things one can do but they inevitably fail.

I thank you for reminding me of the importance of doing this.

Love,
sea storm

[isittoolate]

happiness, joy, peace, contentment.  .  I have been wired to always look to the external to give me happiness.   This also works in reverse I think, the pain I feel  I also look to the external for the reason.  Not sure if I can make myself clear but will try anyway.

I know that XN was an abusive, controlling.........POS.  I will never doubt that because I have the truth of my experience but I am beginning to think about moving on.  There seems to me to be something connected with my externalising my blame and pain which will keep me tied into the cycle.  I have thought that if I own the part of me which is capable of abuse etc then it frees me from being hooked in to XN...... does this make sense to people.  I studied Object Relations some years ago and I think these thoughts are tied into that theory.  Also, something about being in relationship with Ns keeps my N mother alive.  It is as if I have internalised the bad object and need to experience human manifestations of it which will free me from feeling that part of me.  THis makes some sort of sense to me. 

My theory is that if I can own the part bad object I have internalised and integrate it(me) then it releases me from the pattern of N relationships.  I am aware of my need to split when there is real anxiety, this is when I revert back to being a very small child.  Maybe splitting is also a part of what is going on.

Would really appreciate comments on this as I feel it is something big for me........... hope it makes some kind of sense to you.

axa

Time to look inside yourself for what it is you want---no one else but you can give it to you.

Time stop thinking about the N--that's always a step backward-- you can refer to this as a trauma you had and from which you are trying to recover---put the N out of all thoughts and communications., because as long as you talk about N things and what they did, you are keeping them alive-- so call it a trauma and you will overcome!

Love
Izzy

[Ami]

Dear Izzy,
   You seem to have become a much more  happy, secure,confident, and  content person. You seem to have undergone a dramatic transformation. Tell me about it,if you would                 Love  Ami

[isittoolate]

hi Ami
I did a few things that are difficult but I felt they had to be done.

First I "accepted" all blame for anythiing that went wrong in my life. Anything that anyone did to me, I told myself that I allowed it to happen and could have prevented it. That is a generalization. (i.e. I did NOT have to go on that date the night I was injured.)

By blaming myself, I now "forgot about" the person who I  allowed to treat me like a doormat. Because I made a mental line in my head and put EVERY toxic person on the other side of the fence.

Now I am alone on THIS side of the fence and I work on me.

I see that (without them in my thoughts) I am really okay.

I made a list of positive things to think/say to myself if one of those people "yelled across the fence":

RE my daughter I siad
She and I can exchange positive emails.

RE my family I said
The are "good people" [ re no criminals in the family] with their own faults to rectify. and lives to live, and issues to solve.

RE me
I am a human being with my own issues and I have many good qualities.

So regardless of who really did what to whom, if I take on the burden I do not obsess over someone about whom I can do nothing.   Absolutely Nothing!

I can do only ME

Love
Izzy

[Hopalong]

Wow, Izz.

thanks.

Hops

[CB123]

Iz,

I enjoyed your post.  You expressed, so much, where I am.  To be healthy, we eventually have to make the choice to simply leave the N's behind.  You have grown so much, Izzy!

Thanks for sharing.

CB

[axa]

Izzy,

WHat clarity!............... working towards where you are.

Am so impressed and slightly envious, in a good way


axa