intellectual vs. emotional responses

[Sela]

Hops,  ....too much!  Thankyou.  That's overly kind. Totally.

I'm so glad you stayed though.  I'm so glad you're here!  (not for your pain and what you've been through and are going through, ofcourse.....just that it's wonderful to read your kind posts and know you are here, always ready to offer support to so many people).    Thankyou so much Hops, for taking the time and bothering.

Sela

[Ami]

Yes Hops, Thank you .Yorkie is coming along .BTW.                                 Love  Ami

[guest101]

Sometimes, I think I have a kind of hyper-radar and I misjudge those who really mean no harm at all (thinking they do mean me harm) and other times, I trust too much and don't see that someone is intent on harming me, until the harm is well on it's way.  Confused   I feel like I'm losing confidence in this area, like I should be learning but for some reason....I'm not getting better at it.  I guess I just have to keep trying to learn?

Sela, I think your radar is working just fine.  I think it's just that you've been trained badly.  You notice these people, are attracted to them - I think it's because you're trying to relearn what you didn't get in childhood -- that is who NOT to trust and who to trust.  You learn this through trial and error.  Some of us though, instead of learning the lesson and moving on get stuck looking forlornly at our grade paper and try desperately to change the grade.    for years.  myself included.

I learned from making the same mistake over and over and over and over and over again.  I learned to listen to my senses, my gut  and to trust my eyes and my thoughts but to CHANGE my responses.

Quote
......but when there are ill-intentions, masks, deceit, lack of accountability, understanding and sharing, closed off parts of ourselves in operation it can be devastating, leaving a person at the brink of despair, feeling unloved, betrayed, attacked and labelled.end Quote


This is so accurate, the way you put this, Guest.  It's exactly what has also happened and how I have felt.  I would only add that it occurs very insidiously and maybe that's why I don't pick up on it easily?

Quote
it is trauma, revisited. end Quote

Sure is.  Thanks for putting all that into words so clearly, Guest.

I think it's BECAUSE it is insidious that we are traumatize.  if it was honest and straight forward we'd probably get the hell out of dodge but no, we're coaxed to stay there and take more and more all while the person is trying to convince us that they're really a great wonderful person.


 

[bigalspal]

Hi Guest101,
You said this:



I think it's BECAUSE it is insidious that we are traumatize.  if it was honest and straight forward we'd probably get the hell out of dodge but no, we're coaxed to stay there and take more and more all while the person is trying to convince us that they're really a great wonderful person.



That is my downfall. I keep giving people chance after chance. Even after I've been warned & the cold, hard facts are staring me in the face.
Why do you think I do that? My husband says it's because I have a soft heart & don't want to hurt anybody the way I've been hurt, so I give 2nd & 3rd & 100,0000 chances.
What do you think?
Love,
Bigalspal

[guest101]

hi pal,

this is what I think:

trial and error:  you're learning who NOT to trust, but the way you're doing it doesn't make sense because it's emotional.  you might KNOW in your head that these people are trustworthy but you don't FEEL that way, you so want them to be different, to be loving.

for me it wasn't until I got:

that they couldn't be loving

that they knew EXACTLY what they were doing

that they were danger

that it was NOT my fault that they were the way they were

that I could NOT change them

that I so much WANTED them to be different

that is HURT HURT HURT --

it wasn't until I could feel all these feelings that I could release the lesson.

I think human beings are made in such a way that much of what is going on for us is going on spiritually and emotionally, under the surface.

we try to understand and make sense of things, but that is only half the battle.

the worst part -- the part we all avoid, myself included, is FEELING it.

that is what we distract ourselves from, but because it is what is necessary, I believe we just keep orchestrating the same events over and over so we can feel it and heal.

hope some of this resonates with you -- you seem to have a great big heart!

[guest101]

pal, I wrote :

you know that they're trustworthy

-- I meant you know they're NOT trustworthy.

[bigalspal]

Guest101,
Thanks!
That made a lot of sense. I am getting better as I get older.
I try really hard to see what's under the mask.
I guess I always rely on-I'm not going to hurt YOU, so you must be feeling the same way, right?
That is a childish way of thinking.
I want to stop that. I have to get a better radar for such things instead of runny around screaming
"Love me, Anybody, PLEASE!"
Like I said in another thread, I'm stuck emotionally at 2 yrs old.
I want to be at least 5!  
Love,
Bigalspal

[bigalspal]

You're right Guest, I did mean that! 

[lighter]

hi pal,

this is what I think:

trial and error:  you're learning who NOT to trust, but the way you're doing it doesn't make sense because it's emotional.  you might KNOW in your head that these people are trustworthy but you don't FEEL that way, you so want them to be different, to be loving.

for me it wasn't until I got:

that they couldn't be loving

that they knew EXACTLY what they were doing

that they were danger

that it was NOT my fault that they were the way they were

that I could NOT change them

that I so much WANTED them to be different

that is HURT HURT HURT --

it wasn't until I could feel all these feelings that I could release the lesson.

I think human beings are made in such a way that much of what is going on for us is going on spiritually and emotionally, under the surface.

we try to understand and make sense of things, but that is only half the battle.

the worst part -- the part we all avoid, myself included, is FEELING it.

that is what we distract ourselves from, but because it is what is necessary, I believe we just keep orchestrating the same events over and over so we can feel it and heal.

hope some of this resonates with you -- you seem to have a great big heart!

This post sure resonated with me, Guest. 

Bears repeating. 

[Hopalong]

you're learning who NOT to trust, but the way you're doing it doesn't make sense because it's emotional.  you might KNOW in your head that these people are trustworthy but you don't FEEL that way, you so want them to be different, to be loving.

Guest, you're right, you're right!

And I think one key is that it's OLD EMOTION. It's not not not present feeling in response to present reality.
It's OOOOOOOLD yearning and wishing and unfulfilled needs for affection from waaaaay back thennnnnn.

We're lugging around OLD emotion that's so big it covers the lens of our hearts and we confuse our SINCERITY of feeling with ACCURACY and APPROPRIATENESS of feeling!

Sorry for the "we"--I do mean me...and all the caps. That's not yelling, it's enthusiasm.

Thanks for a post that really triggered a big thought for me. I didn't know there was such a thing as "old" emotion in the now.
But there is.

And I think if I ask myself, am I feeling something old, or am I here NOW, responding in health and in sanity to NOW...

that would be good.

Hops

[Hopalong]

I also think, for me, it is a big thought that
we (me) can confuse our sincerity of feeling
(it's so strong and intense and real it must be telling me something true...)

with accuracy of emotional knowledge.

I think not so. I think our my own sincerity can be confused
with truth-telling.

Truth is objective. It's not because I FEEL awash in love and adrenalin
that it's true I should take a big emotional risk.

Oh my...

incoherent but I think I got something.

Hops

[guest101]

hmm, Hopalong, some how I don't think this is true all the time.

And I think one key is that it's OLD EMOTION. It's not not not present feeling in response to present reality.
It's OOOOOOOLD yearning and wishing and unfulfilled needs for affection from waaaaay back thennnnnn.

The emotions are old, I agree but the trigger in the present is real and the feelings in response to the trigger in the present reality is real and valid.  I think it's why we might feel so strongly about this person but not about that person. 

sometimes it's projection and more our own stuff but sometimes it's TRUE and ACCURATE to respond in the emotional way we are but we doubt ourselves and our own emotions and second guess our feelings instead of trusting in them, I think.

We're lugging around OLD emotion that's so big it covers the lens of our hearts and we confuse our SINCERITY of feeling with ACCURACY and APPROPRIATENESS of feeling!

I think all feeling is appropriate  but it's what we do with the feeling that may not be appropriate.  but sometimes, like I've said that feeling is very accurate BECAUSE it reminds us so much of the past and triggers that old, familiar emotion.

but I guess I do get what you're saying on the other hand, because sometimes we can deceive ourselves into think we feel one way when we're really afraid to admit we feel something else -- I say "we" cause I've done it too.

I

also think, for me, it is a big thought that
we (me) can confuse our sincerity of feeling
(it's so strong and intense and real it must be telling me something true...)

with accuracy of emotional knowledge.

see, IMO all feeling is telling you something true -- what that is only the person feeling the feeling can say.  sometimes others can point it out, because they can see it more clearly but only the person can confirm that it's true but only  if they're willing.

I have a hard time with those words accuracy of emotional knowledge, cause I think emotions are fluid and changing -- to me to judge "emotional knowledge" would be like trying to measure the ocean.

I guess I'm thinking what  the best thing is to ask would be is:

Am I feeling an old emotion, if so WHY?

what is happening right now that has triggered this old wound?

what can I do that's healthy to either protect myself, remove myself from the situation, diffuse the situation or change the situation.

CAN I do anything to change the situation?

what am I doing to contribute to the situation?

at least those are the things I asked myself.

*    *     *

Hey, Bigspal, I was actually correcting myself!!!  when I responded to you I said "trustworthy" when I meant to write not trustworthy. 
I'm really glad so many  were able to relate to some of what I wrote -- it has been and still is on so many levels a very painful lesson and journey and it feels really good to share.

[teartracks]

Hi lighter,

Honestly, I lurked here for a good long time before I ever posted because there was strife on the board.

I am curious.  While lurking, reading and posting, have you identified any common denominators to the strife? 

tt

[guest101]

Hi lighter,

Honestly, I lurked here for a good long time before I ever posted because there was strife on the board.

I am curious.  While lurking, reading and posting, have you identified any common denominators to the strife? 

tt

"Double Bind Two:

It is more important to pretend that there are no problems or serious issues within this group's dynamics than it is to identify and resolve problems and serious issues so that individual group members and the group at large can break denial, confront recurring patterns, and heal. Therefore, anyone who becomes aware of problems and serious issues within the group dynamics will be regarded as a threat and treated as an enemy if they speak out about them or make any distinctions in how they interact with group members on the basis of how they themselves are being treated.

In other words, preserving the appearance of group harmony is more important than the group's collective mental and emotional health, or the mental and emotional health of any group member.

Which is exactly the situation most of us had in our families of origin. Keep it quiet, hush it up, move along, nothing to see here, stop rocking the boat."~ Posted by Stormchild, Nov 2006   ---- http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=2916.msg47299#msg47299

[lighter]

Hi lighter,

Honestly, I lurked here for a good long time before I ever posted because there was strife on the board.

I am curious.  While lurking, reading and posting, have you identified any common denominators to the strife? 

tt

I was so upset and sick when I first came here.... even though someone explained what was going on..... I can't tell you what the heck happened.  Certainly, someone felt attacked. 

Someone didn't feel safe posting and they said so.

I wish I could remember what else was going on and why that dynamic came about.  It's a little embarrasing to admit that someone here held my hand via e mail for a while bc I didn't feel safe posting.  I can't remember who it was at the time.  It could have been you: /  It was very helpful though and I'll always remember how it felt.

Where ya been, tt? I should have included you, Axa, debkor and Storm as people who are growing to the point of moving beyond this board, who's wisdom would be missed.