Author Topic: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?  (Read 8758 times)

Certain Hope

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2007, 07:42:41 PM »
((((((((Lupita))))))))

I think that you are getting away from these hateful people as you connect the hurts of the past with your feelings in the present.
You are getting away from the fear, too.
I know it doesn't feel that way, but I believe you are.
You just keep talking and typing and one day you will look and *poof* that fear will be gone.

With love,
Hope

Lupita

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2007, 07:35:00 AM »
Today is Wendnesday. There is an important party on Friday. In my dance school. I do not dare to go alone. I usually went with O's mother. I do not want to go with her anymore. I do not want to do anything with those people. I have to let her know that I will not go with her. I have to. I am very scared. She will see me there. But I will not leave my dance school because of those people. Enough is the book club because O and A control it. But many of them go to the same dance school. That, I do not want to leave. I have to find my way to stay there and I will tell O's mom that I have family visiting. But she will see me there any way.
I have to inforce my boundaries. I do not want to go with her and I have to let her know she needs to find somebody else. Or maybe I have to go with her because it was an agreement previously made. Prrevous to my desicion to cut off them from my life. She is as manipulator as her doughter. She calls me and ask me to go eat at her house. She is retired and has properties. She does not need to work. I have many things to do. I cannot put up with her idleness. I say, I am not hungry, thank you. I am on a diet. She calls three hours later, are you hungry now? NO, I am busy. But you said you were going to come. No I did not say that. But feel terrible for not obeying her.
Oh wow, now I have to tell her that I have family coming. But she will see that I do not. Family visitors come on Saturday. And I do not want to go alone.
Thank you for all your advises, You have been very very helpful.

Lupita

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2007, 08:07:40 AM »
I had to do that phonecall on Monday, today is Wednesday and I still have not done it. If I end up going with her because of fear, I am going to be mad. Or if I do not go just not to be with her, I am going to be very mad.

Hopalong

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2007, 09:30:08 AM »
"Hello O.
I'm sorry but I will be going to be going to the dance on my own.
I'll see you there, and I hope you have a good time.

Can't talk now, I have to go. Good-bye."

You can do it, Lupita.
(Don't explain. Don't stay on the phone.
Say your piece and say good-bye.
My advice is not to lie, that will make you feel bad.
This won't.)

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Lupita

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2007, 02:50:44 PM »
It is 2:46 pm and I still have not made that phone call. If she does not call me, is it OK if I just ignore the situation and just go on my own?
I can apologize later.
Why am I so afraid to call this woman?

It might look silly, it is not. It is the basic of why we have been abused all our lives.

This is not superfluous. This is important.

I do not want to face that woman, the same way I do not face a teacher who is making jokes about my class to students that later disrespect me, and the same way I do not want to face my mother, and the same way I get paralized when somebody says something ugly to me instead of being assertive and respond.

Same basics. That is why it is so important.

motheroffour

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #50 on: July 25, 2007, 02:57:53 PM »
Lupita,

Just do it.  Make the call.  Trust yourself.  You are wise and you can handle whatever comes.  May not go perfectly.  But you know what your non-negotiables are. 

I had to make a phone call like that yesterday. Struggled a bit, but it actually turned out better than I had planned.  Said the things I needed to say.  They were hard for the other person to deal with.  But the other person started to understand and even got to the place where she could take her hands off my stuff...even though all she wanted to do was fix my stuff.

My situation is different , I know.  But I think you should just JUMP!  Bet it will turn out better than you suspect.  And if not, you will know what to do and how to feel healthy evaluations of it.

--mof4

wiltay

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2007, 09:31:50 PM »
Lupita, This leader of the book club sure does sound like a big fat N to me and if so your instincts are right--he will not like you taking any of his narcissistic supply and you will NOT be welcome!  If you dim his light with your passion he will put you down and the others in the group will support him.  Of course you should always check things out as much as you can, but my  advice is to trust your instincts and listen to that bad vibration.

  I don't think you have any interest in being a sheep or you wouldn't have said that.  Sheep don't have any passion to begin with--they have to be TOLD what to feel. You obviously don't need that.
 
  I so know the feeling of wanting to belong to something!! But  it's a chimera, a false ideal.  Belonging to something more often than not simply means being a sheep and being required to say baaaaaa! in chorus with the rest of the herd. And the moment you step out of line, someone will kick you. Some people need that, but I don't think you do.  You belong to yourself. You fit with yourself, beautifully, because you are being you.
 
    You start wonderfully everywhere because you are full of life while so many people are not.  The only thing that ruins it is your disappointment that other people cannot feel as keenly as you do.  I think you're doing fine, Lupita.

Bill

lighter

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2007, 02:48:34 AM »
Hey Lupita:

I hope that all worked out for you.  I didn't see your post till just now.

I would have told you to be busy. 

Sorry, I'll be coming from somewhere else and not sure about my schedule so I'll have to pass on being your ride.

Sorry, I have plans after class and can't be your ride anymore.

Sorry, I have an irratic schedule coming up..... I won't be able to be your ride. 

Sorry, I've decided to go to dance class by myself.  I'll see you there.  That was Hops suggestion.  Scary but..... it's the truth and you're still honest and being authentic Lupita.   I don't think you can stand being dishonest about it Lupita. 

Whatever you do, you have the right to do it.  Your book club people certainly have no trouble doing what they want to do.  You may change your mind, even if you're not comfortable taking care your own needs and putting yourself first, it'll get more comfortable as you gain some experience; )

Whatever happened, it'll be ok ((Lupita)) 

changing

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2007, 04:11:32 AM »
Hi Lupita-

I too have struggled with group dynamics and with setting people straight in terms of their unrealistic expectations, and unilateral pronouncements. Your health and intelligence (including your emotional intelligence) are not permitting you to slide into a semi-comatose "sheepdom" without a fight! Use your time to do what will serve your highest good Lupe! You obviously have an active and fertile imagination- perhaps your path and connections lie in more creative pursuits, with more creative people like your friend the writer. Cast ye not pearls before swine (and those folks that you have mentioned definitely sound like piggies!).

Hugs,

Changing

Lupita

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2007, 08:08:54 AM »
OMG, your posts are so encouraging!!!!!  Thank you.

I made the phone call. I told her that I would not be around the area to go with her. She immediately said, "You don't want me to go with you" I said, no no no, I will be far from here. I cannot pick you up. I apologize for that. I am very sorry.

I feel I did the right thing for my own good. I need healthy people. I need healthy friendships. And need to have affinity with the people I gwt together with. Not just anybody just not to be alone.

I have many things that I can do alone. I can even go dancing alone. My dance school has two parties a week I can go alone there. I donot to be begging any friend to go with me.

I can go to Barnes & Noble to read book having a capuccino.

I can got to the gym.

I will beg somebody to go to the beach, but only there and only once a month. Maybe I can find a club with beach activities.

I can go to the library alone.

lighter

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2007, 08:50:43 AM »
Lupita.... (long rant warning stop reading at the point your eyes cross, lol)

from the very bottom of my heart......

as painful as being along is at first.....

being alone is exactly what will change your life.

You will  find that you are enough.

You are strong and capable and worthy.

That your skin fits and is really quite comfy.

You'll look around and realize that you are the lucky one. 

The mean people are not lucky.... and yes they suck, but that's besides the point. 

They are not worthy of your company.

How lucky they were to have you working hard at involving them in your life from a position of need and fear.

They used your need and fear to KEEP YOU feeling weak and needy.... dependant on their crumbs.

Crumbs aren't good enough and now you know. 

Now you'll experience your own company and take comfort in it. 

It will become refuge instead of lonely panicked prison. 

I have been where you are. 

The mistake I made was feeling stronger and neglecting to be mindful of all the lessons I learned. 

It started with compromise, then went downhill from there.

I will be more careful with myself this time.

I will approach relationships from a place of want.  Not need. 

I hope you learn from my lessons and commit to solid boundaries without allowing others to talk you out of defending them, as I have done. 

I knew better Lupita and still I failed. 

::changing gears....  getting upbeat::

Time to erect healthy boundaries, Lupita. 

It'll be OK. 

You're doing it for the first time. 

I'm doing it for the second time. 

There may be hiccups along the way but......

I hope you can honor yourself enough.....

 to enforce those boundaries like a very alert mama.....

 tiger guarding her cub. 

Calm and capable. 

She knows she can defend that cub. 

She doesn't need to stand up and be loud about it. 

She can flick her tail and look a challenger in the eye.....

 and give them enough information for to know that they won't be poaching her cub today.

Then she's free to go back to enjoyng her life. 

She doesn't experience upset the rest of day over the outragouse nerve of a flea or hyena pretending to have good intentions for her or her cub. 

And isn't she the lucky one! 

Strong and in control and capable and the predators KNOW this just from the way she carries herself.....

just from the look in her eye. 

They know. 

They go and choose someone else to test. 

Ahhhhhh...... I am on a roll and I can't shut up, lol! 

Sorry this is so long guys.....  but it's been on my mind a lot lately. 

I can't afford to have hyenas poaching me or my cubs. 

My boundaries are what will keep us safe. 

Lighter saying for the day..... "there is no try, only do"  Is that right?  The Jehdi master, Yoda said something similar, lol.

I have a particularly challenging challenge before me at this time. 

I am absolutely committed to standing my ground. 

No more fear guiding me.

No more worry about tomorrow. 

I can't negotiate with my N.

I have no hope of his honoring any agreement he strikes.

So I won't bother (read that as spend money) to negotiate with him.

If it's war, and it is.... then take me to battle and I'll fight standing without fear of the outcome.

If I fall, then he falls too. 

I won't be left lying in the dirt bloody and in debt up to my eyeballs with legal fees while he gloats and dances around all happy that he manipulated me and the system into allowing him to get away with murder. 

I won't be left with a Judgement I can't collect or enforce while he's soppin up sun with various and assorted women on a beach while I struggle to raise children alone, hounded by collection agencies. 

I simply reject that choice, though my attorney and family would have me choose it. 

They don't understand that a reasonable offer from an N is reason for your gaurd to come up.  Bring out the big guns (figurative) if they come bearing gifts or make a promise. 

I don't want flowers or promises.

I don't..... ahhhh ya.... I realize I'm still ranting but it MUST COME OUT...... want to go to war either but he's counting on my gentle nature to choose the path of least resistance and (figurative) blood shed. 

He's wrong this time.  He's been right every other time he's pushed me over the line. 

I let him push me. 

Why would I stop now?

He certainly won't.

I'm the beach donkey (love that Axa) and he's the Master of the universe.

Let's see what happens when the beach donkey takes up a flame thrower and faces the master?

I don't laugh when I say that. 

I'm deadly seriouse and I'm truly interested in what happens between a deadly committed beach donkey and deadly committed MOU who's never backed down..... ever.

Simply lied and manipulated, cheated and schemed his way through life without any shame. 

LAUGHING about things he's done, that would break you or me with shame, had we committed the same act.

No care as to how the world really views him, though he'd be delighted if he could be viewed as the victim.

He's carefully been cultivating that image of himself and his camp certainly indulge that fantasy, though they know in their hearts that it's not true.  What the hell is that, anyway? (Rhetorical) 

If you've read this far I thank you for that.  I don't need any comments or atta girls on this one.  I just needed to put this out there into the ether and let it breath.

::Sigh::

It's gonna be OK.


btw.... Lupita..... I'd like to be in your book club; )

Certain Hope

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Re: Voice or voiceless??? What is right?
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2007, 11:31:52 AM »
Lighter,

Been there (still am).  For the past year, I have been trying to convince someone--anyone--to believe me that my NH is not in this for the reasonableness of it.  He will make a shambles of every "agreement" and try to make everything hopelessly convoluted and impossible to decipher.  He is the master of confusion and he is trying to spread a thick layer of it over everything in this divorce. 

No one has believed me.  I had the same lawyer for six months--he never did believe me.  I switched lawyers and I had to start all over.  Yesterday, he got it.  He said:  I understand what you have been trying to tell me.  No more messing with this joker.  We are going to the wall.  It's over.

I cried.  Finally.

The first step, Lighter, is for you to finally believe it yourself.  The only way this is going to end half-way well is for you to be just as in-your-face as he is.  It went against everything I am--I am the supreme pacifist, turn-the-other-cheek, believe the best about someone--but I had to get over that.  They have absolutely no internal controls.  You could give them everything they want, and they will decide they didnt ask for enough.  Ask me how I know.

Stand firm, Lighter.  Chin out.  Dukes up. 

Love
CB

This is the truth...
There is no pacifying N.
There is no "letting N off the hook" in order to simplify matters and expedite closure.
There is no ending it cleanly, neatly, concisely, or reasonably. None.

But I never did put up my dukes... I refused to give him the satisfaction.
What I did was - "show up"...  the last thing he expected. He fully expected to wear me down, but I just kept showing up.
Hearing after hearing, I was there... at times, only to find out that he failed to make an appearance >> rescheduled>> more agony...
and yet I kept showing up.

Remember, N's lawyer is presenting agreements, settlements, compromises, and resolutions... assuming that any reasonable person would want this done.
N's lawyer doesn't get it either. This one didn't until it came to the point where he would have to perjure himself in order to continue defending his client.
Then he resigned >> more rescheduling, more hearings, more NoNseNse.

Just keep showing up.
(((((()))))))

Love,
Hope