Author Topic: Cry for help  (Read 8226 times)

debkor

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2007, 02:12:41 AM »
Hey Ami,



While I was surfing around I came across this and read some of it that reminded me of what you seem to be going through now.  It's not all of it because some of it did not apply. Well I think we all went through this at some point.
So I want to paste it this part.

 One of the reasons other people  wanted us not to express our feelings is that they felt our power and didn’t want to, (didn’t know how to) deal with it. Quickly they taught us how to keep our power out of their way. The less we express, the least powerful we are, and the less anyone has to bother about us. You see, people have to do things like negotiate with powerful people. They have to take them into consideration, listen to them, and maybe not get what they want from them. They are powerful people, who know what they want and what is best for them. They cannot be easily manipulated. So another side affect of expressing our feelings, past and present, is the return of our esteem for Self, care for our Self and the understanding that "you are the MOST important person in your life". In fact you are the ONLY person in your life. Everybody else is in their own life, (fortunately).

   As the "plug" starts to move, so does our creativity and inspiration. We start getting feelings of what we want to do, and as we follow them we find that our whole life begins to change. Now we are having strong feelings on a day-to-day basis. Feelings that cannot be denied and that can bring us to some important, and sometimes difficult decisions.

   Up until this point in our lives, we have made our choices out of programming. This programming was largely about what other people wanted from us. It takes courage to now turn around to those people and let them know that we not going to be doing that any more, that they are responsible for their own lives, and that we are going to be responsible for ours. Sometimes that means that our paths need to separate, because their road is not our road. Maybe it never was, but neither of us could see that at the time. These are difficult times but as Shakespeare once said, "First unto thy own Self be true, and it follows.....that thou cans't not be false to any man”.  By being true to the Self inside, we set everyone free to be true to their own self. If that is to go their road with us, so be it. If not, there is a perfectly good road of their own that they should be following. Fitz Perls, a very wise man said,  "in order to be responsible to yourself, you have to be irresponsible to everyone else."

  The funny thing I found is that the more honest about my feelings I am able to be with those around me, the more they respect me. It’s as if watching our example gives them permission to be that way too. It shows them another way, especially if they happen to be our own children watching, and learning from us, as we did from our parents. Don’t do it for them! Show them how its done, by doing it for yourself! Of course there will always be people in our lives that are not ready for this, and they will go off and find someone else to continue to play the old mind-games with. That’s as it should be. Every one knows where they are at, deep inside of them. They also know when they are ready.
   So, in closing, let me say that the path of the Self is not an easy one to follow, but it sure beats going round and round in circles


Ami,

I think that this is all that gunky stuff you had backed up (emotions) trauma and the plug is starting to move.  You have had enough.   
This is your return of esteem for self.
It was so easy to take your power as a child manipulate the hell out of you.  What could you do?  Children are such easy prey.
Quote
This programming was largely about what other people wanted from us. It takes courage to now turn around to those people and let them know that we not going to be doing that any more, that they are responsible for their own lives, and that we are going to be responsible for ours.
Quote


This is what you are doing Ami and grieving at the same time.  Very difficult and tremdous pain. You are dealing with your past and present.
It's overwhelming but you are going to be ok. 
Hang in there one day at a time.  I think you have lots of courage.
 
Deb





JanetLG

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2007, 05:00:26 AM »
Deb,

That was a brilliant quote - which website was it from?

Ami,

I'm sorry if what I suggested seems to be what has turned out to be the case..that is, your father was there on a snooping mission.

That's so hard to deal with. When you say that he didn't sound properly 'contrite' as if he wasn't apologising meaningfully for the huge issues from the past, do you mean that he kind of said 'I'm sorry IF YOU THINK I hurt you in the past' or 'I'm sorry IF YOU THINK THAT things weren't right'? That kind of thing? I think it was CB (sorry if I've got that bit wrong, I'm terrible with names!) who said a few weeks aback about the language people use to apologise, and the way it either takes responsibility, or channels it back to you, which isn't apologising at all.

Pal,

I think you've got a good point there - he's got to live with the N, so he's probably trying to appease both Ami and her NMother, for a reasobnably qiuet life. No excuse, though, but that's possibly what he's doing (badly).

Ami, I hope he keeps his word and doesn't try to visit you.

Janet

Ami

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2007, 07:17:19 AM »
Thank you so much. Honestly, the wisdom on this board is unsurpassed.The love and caring is mind blowing--- Thank you so ,so much.It helps me to realize just how beautiful it is to get words of wisdom and understanding when you are parched and aching.Tell me the therapist who would know what you, here,know.Then I will go-(lol.)
Deb--- What a "right" word for the 'right" time---, You expressed totally and perfectly what the issue is. I am amazed how you could see it so clearly when it was so "dark" to me. That is what I am going through in a nutshell. Thank you so, very much.
 It is uncomfortable for people who have kept you down to see you "go up".You threaten them when you want to be whole when the dynamic in the family FORBIDS wholeness. That is the  dilemma. 
   My father gave a 'real' apology. It did not "feel"contrite enough.but it was real. I said,"I don't want you to come over if you are going to push me down to death(lies) like you would do in the past. I literally almost died trying to lie   and I won't anymore.
   He said that he was sorry that he used to call me and try to force me to accept her lies.(He was the messenger boy to  try to make me think that I was wrong ,when she had acted horribly.and was wrong)) I believed him. He was really the reason that I lost myself.I never thought that he would lie to me.I thought that he would put my welfare,first. He put his own needs  first.
  He got it, I think. I expected more" feeling",but it was a real apology. I think that he wants to make it right with me, for himself. I guess that he really does love me. He was just weak from his own family. Emotions were not allowed in his FOO. Many were obese--- the woman. His sister was a "yo-yo" and lost and gained several hundred pounds. She was a psychologist for a weight program. Her daughter was the same way. She had a gastric by pass and then gained 100 pounds back. They were very afraid of anger..They also, derived  their sense of self from people pleasing and outside approval. So, my father has issues of co-dependency-- for sure. He has been in Al-Anon for 13 years. He told me that he wants to make it right with me--- for himself--- not b/c she sent him.
   Today, I feel like I can go forward.Thank you again, every dear person who  posted      Love  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Lupita

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2007, 08:43:15 AM »
Dear Ami, I do not know what to say. Just that we are here with you and that we pray for you everyday. We love you.

Hopalong

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2007, 09:37:02 AM »
Oh Ami.
What a gift you have just received.
Your father's apology, and his love.

I am so glad for you.

And moved.
He's just a human being.
It's wonderful that he's been in Al-Anon.
I imagine he's learned so much there.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2007, 09:53:16 AM »
to "touch me" I do not want to get in to a discussion of the merits or not merits of therapy. This is my opinion  and experience.
   The main point  is that deep pain must be honored. It is a powerful force that must be respected like a hurricane or tornado.
  It is very damaging to a deeply wounded person for someone to tell them that they should be "over it" by now.                                                 Love  Ami


Dear Ami:

I'm sorry your one support IRL, Maria, thinks you should be over this. 

For some reason, she's at the point where she thinks you should be growing past a certain point.... and not going over the same things? 

Perhaps this is a lot for one "friend" to have on her shoulders? 

That's sad bc I had hoped you were attending those support groups and finding community there. 

I'm sure Maria sees things from her outsiders view and feels compelled to share with you, for whatever reason, her thoughts. 

That's one of the downsides to having regular old people be your only supports. 

They don't know exactly 'how' to do it. 

They don't know how to do it and not get burned out, or at least act like they're not burned out.

 A T does.

I can say that Maria seems to have shared her truth with you about how she sees your situation. 

At least your friend is honest with you. 

Hope you continue healing and get your boys out of that terrible situation with an abusive violent father. 

None of you deserves to live in fear like that. 


motheroffour

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2007, 11:04:17 AM »
Ami,

I am a little late on this topic.  Seems like you are getting so many wonderful comments, ideas, and supports.  I have had so many days where I needed to cry for help and no one has been there to hear.  I know I am not much, but I do hear you and the pain and panic and flooding of emotion. 
It will all be fine.  Maybe even better than fine. 

I send some hugs and quiet and peaceful thoughts to you.

--mof4

Ami

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2007, 11:06:27 AM »
Dear Lighter,
  I am coming to the conclusion that very few people in the general population, support groups or therapists really understand about N's- in a heartfelt way.My mother has been in therapy for over 30 years and no therapist ever told her about N.My father and brother have been in almost continual therapy. No one ever mentioned the elephant in the living room---- N  .I have been in therapy for many years.When I would describe my M--- no one ever mentioned N.
  I think that I will have to compartmentalize my life. You--- on the board GET IT about N's. Maria is a wonderful,lovely person,BUT she does not get N's. I was in 2 different support groups for 12 years. They did not get it about N's.
  . My older son worked with an N for 8 months. After that, He got it. He understands about my M now.Talking to him is like talking to you,on the board ,b/c  he gets it.
   I think that the way that I handle life,now, will be not to expect people to "get" my life. You understand and that is enough.I think that we, who have been unfortunate enough to have had to deal with N's, are in a small group. We are in our own separate universe ,in this particular area of life. It is futile to explain it to other people. They give pat answers that might work in "normal" situations or" semi normal" situations-- but not with N's. Then ,I feel more alone than ever. This is my plan for the moment anyway. The support group is good for many  other issues,however .     Love  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

debkor

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2007, 11:56:52 AM »
Janet,


Actually I was looking up things about dyslexia and came across left brain right brain with learning.  I thought about guest 101 thread intellectual vs. emotional responses. By the way I took the online test and mine is  54% right side dominant.    As I was reading I thought hmmm and googled  emotional childhood trauma left brain right brain to see what would come up. 

The part that I posted I am sorry there was so many sites I was looking at that I cannot remember which I took that quote from.  I know that it was focused on spiritual healing also.  Some of the things looked at I was like (Whattt) so I took what I needed (info) and left the rest alone. 
But there are some very interesting things.

Quote
The right brain reads faces, inflection, nuances, pitch, melody, empathises and intuits what persons feel about what they say, why and in what context. In time it provides gestalt, morals, motives, inferences and meanings. These develop silently throughout life. The right brain remains dominant in regard to most, if not all, aspects of social-emotional functioning. When it is disturbed a myriad of affective psychosomatic and behavioral disturbances may result. For instance, when an ambivalent mother says "I love you." a child's left brain hears the words while the right brain discerns hate. The two parts cannot be assimilated. Later on hearing "I love you." the adult may cringe without knowing why.
Quote

That is another I read. 

Some very interesting read about left brain, right brain.   Check it out.
 

Deb
 



Hopalong

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2007, 02:32:58 PM »
I understand the frustation, Ami.
I think it would be great to have a little brochure, a quick digest of the main characteristics of NPD,
and carry it with me. That way, whenever I meet someone new and they begin to be curious about my
mother...then I could say, oh I have this leaflet here, that tells all about it. And include URLs.

Wouldn't that be handy? Hmmm.
Heck, people do that about unusual diseases all the time, since there are so many physical diseases
that people don't understand.

People CAN understand, once they're educated. Yep, I could tell a new friend, I'm enjoying getting
to know you so much. One thing that may sound funny but would mean a lot to me, would you
please read this, and go to that web site and read a few pages. It'll give you a great understanding
of a big issue in my life.

What could be wrong with that?

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

JanetLG

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2007, 03:28:25 PM »
Hops,

This is a link to the best description of an N mother that I've found (it's not so applicable if you have other N relationships in your life - it's just describing mothers), but it's SO accurate!

I've directed friends to this one, and they actually UNDERSTAND afterwards. For the first time in YEARS.

http://www.geocities.com/zpg1957/narcissists.htm

It would make a brilliant leaflet to hand out at supermarkets, church, airports... just to keep people informed, you understand  :twisted:


Janet

Hopalong

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2007, 04:08:37 PM »
thanks Janet...it really is amazing.
My mother doesn't do ALL of those things but some describe her behaviors so accurately it's uncanny.

Hmmm...I'll have to give an edited version some thought.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

teartracks

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2007, 04:08:56 PM »


Dear Ami,

I would like to recommend a book that has comforted me tremendously when I was crying for help.  It is, Life of the Beloved by Henri J. M. Nouwen.

I've entered the last week of my alloted time to be apart from my mother.  I'm computerless except for the public library.  That's why I haven't posted lately.  I send my best to you and everyone.

tt


bigalspal

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2007, 04:50:50 PM »
Hi Janet,
Thanks for the link.
My NMother is a lot like the description.
Except for the nicer parts.  :lol:
Love,
Bigalspal
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Ami

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Re: Cry for help
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2007, 06:24:11 PM »
Dear Shunned,
   I think that a big part of my getting more involved in life is to not "cast my pearls before swine". I am not saying that other people who do not understand  N's are "swine". I am saying that I need to know where to give my deepest self and where to guard my deepest self.
   I need to own myself and adjust myself to the outside environment.                    Love  Ami
   I
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung