My N-mom has disowned me over her granddaughter

[spyralle]

((((((((((((((((((((((((Jackie))))))))))))))))))))))

Oh sweeetheart the tumoil you are in is almost tangible.  Firstly though I have to say that Jacqueline Evangeline Elizabeth is a beautiful beautiful name.  It is the name of that little baby.  That's who she is and you know what that is more important than anything else.

I don't believe you are sacrificing your daughter on the 'alter of your mothers approval'.  I believe that you are sacrificing yourself, and probably you have done that many many times before.  I'll be very surprised hon if your mother has disowned yoou and I know this sounds awful but it would almost be a blessing if she did.  If I had a pound for every time my mum has said to me 'I am finished with you'  I'd be loaded.  I mean.. think about it..  What kind of a person would disown their daughter because she called her own baby by the name she chose..  Sit down for a minute Jackie and just think about it.  Are they the actions of the kind nurturing mother, or of a woman who craves control and enmeshment and will manipulate and emotionally abuse to get it.

That feelinf inside is a killer isn't it, and the way it goes around and around in your head until it is unbearable.  Take some time jackie.  Breath slowly and deeply and look into your daughters eyes.  Maybe you will see that is what counts.that bond between you and her.  The bond I have with my daughter (who by the way is 22 and still called Katie despite my mothers best efforts) helps calm that horrible feeling..  Trust in your relationship with her because that is what counts...

Lots and lots of love

Spyralle xxxx

[Iphi]

Poor Jackie your mom really has you hog-tied.  I have a confession to make to you.  As I read this topic, I have have come to deeply dislike your mother.  I can't stand her!  Who does she think she is to upset a pregnant woman like that??  How mean and selfish can she be!! The nerve of her!  The unmitigated gall!  She should be on her knees begging you for the chance to change a diaper or two of her beloved granddaughter and asking if you would like a cup of tea and a nap!  And where is she?? She's having a tantrum.

I think what your mom was doing before the birth, shunning you and giving you the cold shoulder and refusing to come to the shower - I think that was wrong.  And what she is doing to you now, I think that is wrong too.  I think it's a terrible thing that you are in such pain and agony and she put you there.  When you imagine a mother who is overjoyed and happy to be your mother and your daughter's grandmother - you are imagining a woman who does not exist.  I am sorry.  You deserve to have that, but you don't and it is not your fault.

So that's my perspective.  We just had our first baby earlier this year and my husband and I were agreed that the very last names we would name our baby boy would be our respective narcissistic fathers' names.  The very. last. of all boy names that exist. 

I encourage you to read more about N-ism.
It will help you understand that you have done nothing wrong.

[Jackie]

Thankyou thank you thanky ou all so much!  I tell my friends about this stuff and they tell me I need to try harder with my mom, that she loves me in her "own way".

I'm to the point where i don't give a damn what she thinks anymore.  When i look at my sweet daughter, I just want her to have the best life possible.  But i weep when i think that it won't include my mother.  I feel responsible for the rift i have created between them. 

I have tried to speak to my mother about this (calmly).  I said, "mother, i just want you to know that i did not name her jackie to hurt you. If i wanted to hurt you i wouldn't have even considered the name Mary"

My mother put her fingers in her ears and told me she didn't want to hear any more of my lies, filthy lies.  She said now every time she looks at my daughter she is disgusted.  I humiliated her in front of everyone calling her Jackie.  "I TOLD YOU I WOULD BE HONORED WITH MARY. I TOLD YOU AND YOU CHOSE TO STAB ME IN THE HEART. YOU ARE A SELFISH B*TCH!"  This is what my mother was screaming at me.

I was crying and telling my mom i loved her and want her to be in our lives and my mother stops, stares me down with a cold hard stare and said: "You made your bed. Now you have to lay in it.  You have to suffer the consequences of your choices.  It is obvious that I do not hold the right place in your heart.  When i hold the right place in your heart, then you will KNOW what the right thing to do is....until then. Don't even look at me"

Then she left and when i went to see her a couple wks later my mother did not even acknowlege i existed.  She ran right past me and into her house and refused to open the door to see me.  I cried all the way home.  I don't know how i can even begin to fix this. I feel so terrible for hurting her so badly.

[finding peace]

Oh sweetheart,

I feel responsible for the rift i have created between them.

You are not responsible at all - your mother is.

My mother put her fingers in her ears and told me she didn't want to hear any more of my lies, filthy lies.  She said now every time she looks at my daughter she is disgusted.  I humiliated her in front of everyone calling her Jackie.  "I TOLD YOU I WOULD BE HONORED WITH MARY. I TOLD YOU AND YOU CHOSE TO STAB ME IN THE HEART. YOU ARE A SELFISH B*TCH!"  This is what my mother was screaming at me.

I was crying and telling my mom i loved her and want her to be in our lives and my mother stops, stares me down with a cold hard stare and said: "You made your bed. Now you have to lay in it.  You have to suffer the consequences of your choices.  It is obvious that I do not hold the right place in your heart.  When i hold the right place in your heart, then you will KNOW what the right thing to do is....until then. Don't even look at me"

Then she left and when i went to see her a couple wks later my mother did not even acknowlege i existed.  She ran right past me and into her house and refused to open the door to see me.  I cried all the way home.  I don't know how i can even begin to fix this. I feel so terrible for hurting her so badly.

No caring, nurturing mother would ever say things like that or behave that way towards her child.  Can you imagine saying something like this to your precious daughter? 

Have you considered that she is the one who owes you an apology?  She is acting like a child and having a temper tantrum over a name at one of the most stressful and beautiful times in your life - stressful because of the residual pain of childbirth and surgery, the utter sleep deprivation, and the shifting hormones, and beautiful for having just brought a new and precious life into the world.

Honey, this is your daughter, not your mother's, you have every right to name her whatever you want.

I am so sad that you have to experience antics like this at what should be a most wonderful time for you.  You deserve a lot better.

(((((Hugs to you and Jackie))))))

Peace

[Lupita]

Please, read the post that I gave you. That might help you understand the NPD. That way you will start not to feel the urge to please her. There is no reason to please her. This kind of persons never get satisfied. I gave you three about NPD in mothers.

[spyralle]

One more thing hon,

N's love attention and c'mon Jackie, why should you get all that attention having a beautiful baby girl..  What's that about..  !!!!!  I guess the best thing to do then is to focus attention right back onto her..  regardless of the pain and heartache.. regardless of the detruction of that special time that is just for you and your husband and daughter.

My daughter has just had a baby and I want it all to be about them...  I watch her with her baby and I am so proud of her.  I never want to be like my mother because it is unhealthy to make your child go through the sort of desperation you are feeling.  That isn't love Jackie.  As I have craved a mother who loves me I have turned myself in somersalts for one who sees me as a possession.  Try and stop spinning hon stay calm and show your baby how strong you are and how true to her..

Spyralle x

[Jackie]

Honey, this is your daughter, not your mother's, you have every right to name her whatever you want.

Well, here is where I get confused. I KNOW i have a right to name her whatever i want....but i have been trained/ programmed, conditioned to automatically think "what would mother want? what would make HER most happy?  I should WANT what she wants.  A GOOD daughter would do that.  

For years I WANTED to name her Mary....never even gave it a second thought.  When my husband asked me why i picked that name it was automatic "well, b/c it would make my mom so happy/proud"

Now i'm sitting here with my head spinning wondering if i'm going to regret this for the rest of my life.  When mother's lying on her death bed am i going to be kicking myself for not giving her this namesake?  Or will i be kicking myself for naming her Mary when my daughter is in tears after my mom says something cruel to her?  If i knew the answer to THAT question then i would have it made.  I already know when i was facing death i wasn't thinking about no stinking Mary name. I keep thinking, "this will pass....one day my mom and I are going to be speaking again...." i've told myself this everyday for 2 years now....and its not getting better. Its getting worse!

When i was in the hospital (before my surgery thinking i was going to die)...my anger, who was right/wrong didn't matter to me anymore.  I loved my mom. I forgave her.  She was like a cold statue and muttered that she forgave me also a long time ago and i had to forgive myself.....now this name thing....my mother telling me i haven't changed. i'm still the rotten, selfish person.  I AM SELFISH.  I wanted my daughter to have a piece of ME!  My mom says i need mental help and treat my daughter like a toy.....not!

[finding peace]

but i have been trained/ programmed, conditioned to automatically think "what would mother want? what would make HER most happy?  I should WANT what she wants.  A GOOD daughter would do that.

I was too.

I also understand the worries about regret.  I went no contact (NC) with my mother almost a year ago.  I don’t take any calls, anything that is sent is unopened, I don’t read any e-mails or letters.  It got to the point where her cruelty and demands were too much, it was not only devastating to me, it was impacting my relationship with my husband and children.  I was a mess all the time, and they felt the effect of it.  It was at that point where I realized she was not only hurting me, she was hurting my family, and that is where I drew the line.  I would not allow her poison to spill over to my real family.

My regrets - I worry that when my mother dies, I will regret my decision to go NC.  I worry that I will regret not trying harder to make the relationship work.  I regret that my children may be very angry at me for not associating with that side of the family when they get older.

It came down to a choice for me.  I had to decide whether or not I was willing to continue being mistreated (and frankly, IMO, you are clearly being mistreated) and put up with her abuse, or if I would live with the worry about the regret I may feel.  I chose to live with the worry that I may feel the regret.

It is a horrible position your mother has put you in, she is forcing you to decide between you and her.  A nurturing, caring mother would never do this.  I can’t imagine saying the things that your mother said to you to my daughter for anything, let alone not naming her after me. 

In my opinion (IMO), in caring, mature relationship, each person considers their own needs and the needs of the person they care for.  It is a synergistic realtionship - they work together to find a solution.  If only one person’s needs are taken care of, especially through emotional manipulation, it is not a relationship, it is emotional slavery.

I can remember how hard those first couple of months were after I had babies.  Do you think you could give yourself some time to make a decision?  You can always change her name in 6 months if that is what you decide to do.  Right now, heal, take the time to get to know that precious little life, and give yourself permission to take a break from your mother and this decision. 

Lupita had some really good advice also.  Read as much as you can on NPD.  It was a real eye-opener for me, and helped me to understand that it is not my fault.

I don't know if this helps, but please know I am thinking of you.  It is a horrible place to be.

Peace

[Ami]

Dear J,
    You need to find some help--- support group ,the board, a good friend , --- someone outside your little world. For me, the board helped me more than anything else that I ever tried.
   Your thinking is "not right". You are focused on the name as the pivotal issue. The name is only a symptom of your mother's larger problems. She sounds like NPD(IMO)
   She sounds like she has this disorder which makes her thinking very "off". Your "job" would be to separate yourself from her issues-- to see her problem as hers. The name thing is only one of thousands of issues that you have had before, I would think. There will be thousands of issues in the future.
   Whatever you do with the name is a "small" issue in light of the fact that you need to separate yourself( emotionally) from her  sickness
   Read people's posts here. Tayana's posts remind me of your mother. Keep writing and get whatever objective person you need to try to help you see that the problem is her. She is not "right" and no name or anything else will make her right                               Love  Ami

[Hopalong]

Jacqueline,
I have an insurrectionist thought.
If naming your daughter Jacqui (lovely lovely name) haunts you (and thank god you did not name her Mary)...and if she's just a few weeks old, is there any other name you might consider?

Perhaps it would lighten this horrible feeling if you stood up for your baby girl's right to NOT be enmeshed, with either her mother or her grandmother. Perhaps giving her her own, new name would help.

Have you thought of talking to a minister about this? I know that names have great specialness. When you give a child a naming ceremony, you are giving her a blessing.

All the pent-up love you have in your heart for her...what if you turned this page--just turn it over. And consider, some loving ritual where you make her name a gift, not a burden?

Look at her sweet face in peace. Sit with her, see where it leads you.

(And I echo every wise one here, please get help with this. She needs you. And you need freedom in your mind that will give you for you to love her and defend your sacred bond with her against ALL who would invade it. Including your mother.)

I let my Nmother have way too much sway over my daughter's life. And I regret it.

Keep posting, there is so much help here, and support for whatever decision is right for you.

with love,
Hopalong

[Overcomer]

J:  I Have come so far in my progress with my mom but I was thinking just yesterday that I still feel constant pressure from her that I am not doing a good job or that I should do what SHE wants me to do.  These issues take weeks, months and years to work through.  My heart goes out to you during this struggle.  Is her middle name Mary?  Maybe you could establish as the moment in time where you have made a decision and she is just going to have to live with it.  I remember being afraid of my mom

[Overcomer]

and her reactions.  I lived my life trying to make her happy.  Problem is I was miserable.  So just love your baby and ask the Lord to bless her and while you are as it ask God to bless your mother-as hard as that is I heard if you pray for those who persecute you your heart will soften towards them.

[Certain Hope]

Dear Jacqueline,

What would you like to be able to share with your little girl one day, when you tell her the story of her birth... and of her name?

Just the way it happened, there in the hospital... exactly the way it was, when you didn't know whether you'd be on this earth to share your life with her... can you imagine how that would make a daughter feel - knowing that her mama longed so very much to be a part of her life?
Wonderful, I'd say... loved and cared for and wanted...  all warm feelings.

Would you say so?

Love,
Hope

[lighter]

Jac:

Your mother won't ever be kind, no matter what you do.  You can change your dd's name and you can grovel and sacrafice yourself till the cow's come home.....

your mother won't change.

It's confusing and crazy making to try to make sense of something that doesn't make any sense, I know.

I'm so sorry you have to go through this.   Once you accept that your mother is broken and can't be fixed.... you can begin to move forward with healing. 

There's no advice to help you live with her.

No advice to make it easier.

No advice to make her less crazy and you feel good about that.

You feel such intense discomfort because you're somewhere you don't belong.  That discomfort is telling you something.  'Make a move'

You may THINK the message is that you aren't good enough or that you caused this or that you have the power to change her IF you can be good enough smart enough try hard enough sacrafice enough.   Phht.  Won't happen.  Sorry.  Makes it more difficult to put responsibility on your mother's shoulders, where it belongs.  All you can do is control you.  Take responsibilty for your actions and words.  Be a better mother and figure out how to do that.  You never saw it modeled for you.  How could you know?

Realizing that you deserve better, she sucks and you have the choice to accept that truth and fill your familie's life with better things and people.... or not.... is a choice before you now bc you've crossed the line into facing the truth.  No more outright denial for you.  Sorry about that bc it hurts.  A lot.  Can't be helped.  It's the way out.  THROUGH THE PAIN.  Never around it.  If you stay, you're now volunteering for more abuse. 

Crap, huh? 

She'll tear your children apart if you allow that.

It's not what N's do..... it's what they ARE.

Like expecting them to change the color of their skin.  It's not possible.  It's not going to happen.  ::shaking head::

Lighter saying for the day..... "It's hope that kills us"

Very sad but moving past this and creating a safe wonderful fulfilling life, with healthy supports and boundaries, is about realizing you're never going to get your mother to love you and treat you with kindness. 

HOW UNFAIR IS THAT?!?! 

You deserved it and should have been gifted those things because you were an innocent vulnerable child entrusted to her, as your mother. 

Societie's expectations of a mother is fairly well layed out.  Society doesn't want to hear that mama's can eat their young, for satisfaction of chewing.  ::shrug::

Doesn't change the fact, no matter how hard society hums and covers it's collective ears. 

Improbable...... makes it hard to find support and understanding within the community of extended family and community, no doubt.

A good therapist, this board and one close friend can provide the support, IMO. 

Relief will come from walking through the pain and facing the truth.

Mourning the loss of your mother, (which means you mourn the loss of the IDEA of the mother you wanted)   She never really existed as "good mother." 

The final journey is creating healthy boundaries that enable you to make good choices in the future. 

You can. 

I hope you do.

Replacing her with uplifting people and things in your life. 

TEACH YOUR CHILDREN HOW TO DO THAT FOR THEMSELVES!

If you weren't so overwhelmed and in pain, you might see a glimmer of hope and feel some thrill of excitement over exploring your life and finding happiness.... releif from confusion and pain. 

I know you don't see that now, ((Jac))  But try to view yourself from a distance.  It's so hard to see what's going on when your face is pressed up against the glass, I know.

The good new is....there are many people here who've been where you are. 

They carry torches shedding light on the path ahead of you.

I know they're posting support and information. 

Cry and mourne the loss you feel, then keep coming back and looking for answers. 

Yo've found validation and understanding here.  You don't have to qualify your posts or convince us. 

We BELIEVE you simply bc it's happened to us to. 

We won't doubt you and you can just speak and be understood. 

WHAT A GIFT THAT IS!! 

Welcome Jac.

[Jackie]

I know you are all right.  I wish i was still in denial.  Ignorance was bliss.....well not bliss, but definitely LESS PAINFUL!

I have been making excuses for her behaviour for so long....she's tired, she's busy, she's old, she's had a tough life with 2 failed marriages, blah blah blah.  So i tried not to be too demanding.  When i told her i was pregnant with my first son, she was annoyed that his due date fell during her "busy time" at work..."why didn't you plan it better?  you KNOW that's my busy time....i won't have time to help you you know"....and she didn't. She came over for 2 hr the first day and i didn't see her after that.  I felt guilty for not counting 9 mo in advance to get PG to see if it would be convenient for HER....

Problem is, my sister had babies when our mother was not busy and she didn't get any help either.  Not when she had a c-section and was forced to stay at her MIL, not when she had another child and lost so much blood she was too weak to get out of bed for 10 days.  My mother had excuses for my sister also.  She's too busy with our brother, my sister is too difficult, my sister is too rebellious and stubborn and doesn't appreciate our mother (maybe if you were the least bit KIND mother, kindness would flow back to you!)

I guess i am just in MOURNING.  There have been so many good things, so much love, so much joy my mother has missed out on b/c every time we tried to surprise her with something, she ruins it!  Every gift i give her she discards, or returns to my face.  But i keep blaming myself for not being honest with her. For hiding my true feelings....she could never handle the truth anyways...i remember always sugar coating everything, leaving out details that would make her upset. Always walking on egg shells around her.....and then gagging when i would hear her spout off how "open minded, fair and understanding" she claimed she was.....puke!

I've spent my whole life making excuses for her b/c she had 2 bad marriages.  She never left the second one, even though she knew our stepfather was cruel and mean.  She claims she didn't want to be a single parent again....but i think she lived on the sympathy and attention it gave her from her friends and family.  "oh poor you"....now my brother is almost out of the house and she claims she can't leave b/c my stepfather is ill.  She "answers to God".....oh yeah?  What does God think of your filthy mouth and how you treat your daughters and grandchildren?

If that wasn't enough, she BLAMES ME for her bad marriage to my step-father. I wasn't loving, caring, thoughful enough....okey, dokey....then why does my brother hate his father so much then?  I left when he was 2. Its all just lies.

I just want to get to the place where I don't feel anger/rage anymore.  I had it for awhile in the hospital.  Now i blame myself for ruining our reconcillation.  Such a fragile truce.  (she gave me the silent treatment for 18 months b/c i told her to "shut up" - once.....never once did she apologize for calling me a spiteful, demon possessed, bitch that she wishes she never gave birth to....nope. THAT crap was justified)....

So i make excuses for her. I try to remember the "good times"....but even those were peppered with her cutting me down a notch.  Telling me i'm too negative and have negative energy (gee ma? ya think?  Maybe if you tried LIFTING ME UP instead of critizing my acne, body, friends, maybe if you allowed me to wear makeup and date and build up my selfconfindence i wouldn't be this shy pessimistic wallflower.....)


Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhh! I feel like SCREAMING!  I just want to dump it all out!  I want to pour out my soul to her - good and bad.  I've asked her to come with me for counselling but no, she told me to take some personal development couses to learn how to treat people.  So i did....and guess what i found out?  I'm a GOOD PERSON and my mother is crazy!  So i grew a backbone and that's when the trouble started.  "you took the course all wrong!" she told me.....why? b/c i wasn't grovelling at her feet telling her what a good mother she was?