Evolution on the Board

[gratitude28]

Hi Penny,
You had good questions here and I let them hang - one because I needed to think and two because I am in my unfurnished home with a chair pulled up to the dog cage that I am using as a desk for the computer - you remember the days lol.
TT- You are right. I am very comfortable here. I also see it as a wonder. It sustains itself and feeds itself and I have never seen that on other places online to this extent. This is really the only site I have dedicated myself to, aside from an alcoholism site a few years ago.
Back to Penny... I guess that is the thing for me. It is like a rolling moss ball and it picks up stray fibers. But the core is fairly solid. And when I wonder about who stays or leaves, I think I am comparing it to AA and the principles. When we have been helped, we are supposed to continue to help others to keep ourselves sober and to continue the program. So I guess I was wondering if there was some correlation here. That we stay healthy when we help others understand and become healthy. Also, I think that if you are growing here, you most likely will be growing in 3D life and overall your life should be improving.
There are those in AA who give 100% to the program and continue to do so... I guess my goal with the program was to learn how to live in society - not just among AA members. Just like here, I want to have people who understand me, but I don't want to ONLY be with people who have the same background.
Does this make any sense?????
Just tossing out ideas as they were tossing around in my head...
Love, Beth

[Ami]

Dear Beth,
  I think that the answer to your question is that when we become comfortable inside ourselves, we can navigate many kinds of situations and people
   I think that this is the key.
   How do we get there? The board is helping me to find my voice. Last weekend when we had people over, I was more comfortable. There were many different types of people.
    I felt  more of a  peace inside and I was more comfortable with myself . I noticed that I felt that the situation flowed.
  I think that my internal confidence is the key in situations. Whatever helps us to get that(God, AA,Al- Anon,, the board) is what we need to follow(IMO)                                 Love     Ami

[gratitude28]

YES Ami!!!!
That is it - being comfortable. And, I think, being willing to ask for help and look for help when you know you need it. Life skills - the things we didn't learn growing up.
(((((((((((((Ami))))))))))))))))
Love, Beth

[axa]

I think the last post I posted on this thread was not necessarily in the appropriate place............ if so sorry but in relation to the evolution on the board.  The real question.  I know I don't always have the need to post in the way I used to........ a lot ofposts per day and this I take as some sort of movement.  In the beginning it was the only place where I felt I was heard and understood also.  I could relate to so many other people that it was if I was sharing a voice.  I know it has done me so much good being here.  I have found the comfort I needed and the challenges which have prodded me to move on.  I often wonder will I be here forever and I look at this question as a question of self care.  I feel safe enough to speak the truth here, maybe some day in 3d life I will feel like that but my hope is that I will stay connected with this board.  Knowing the support I received I want to be in a position to add my support when appropriate, or challenge if I also feel that is appropriate. 

I can see a time when my 3d life becomes more the focus but I hope I will always remember the specialness of this place and keep popping in.

One thing I miss about being here is not hearing your 3d voices.

I think the more we engage in the 3d world the less time we spend here, not sure if this is true or not, just seems to be more my experience.

axa

[Hopalong]

I think the board, reading and writing here, has made me more present with people in the 3D world.
I do have a drive for intimacy, and this board gives me some. So, out here, I feel less jangly around
people, more ready to be present...and playful, which is one of the main ways I interact.

I didn't articulate that very well, but I'm sure the board has made it easier for me to relate to
people and for people to relate to me. All the work and love and learning here has increased
my love and appreciation for people in 3D as well. I feel more confident and comfortable.

Hops

[pennyplant]

Oh Beth, I do remember waiting weeks for furniture!  That is so unnatural!!!  A person needs a comfy place to sit!  It's good that Henry came with furniture....

I did not know this about AA--the principle of giving back to others.  Maybe that is why I don't do so well in groups.  Deep down inside I don't really believe I have anything to give to others that they would want.  And I seem to have so little in common with others.  It may be who I am, who I was made into, or the depression which is never far below the surface.  Or all three?  That's possible too.

For awhile there I thought I had found a firm niche on this board.  But I ended up feeling the way I always do in real life.  Kind of out of it.  Not really particularly vital.  I wonder if it is because I didn't say anything the times I got my feelings hurt.  I noticed lately that some people have gotten hurt and they have just said so and worked their way through it.  Just said what was on their minds.  I kind of shut down when it happened to me.  I was embarrassed because I assumed I deserved the hurtful responses I got.  I felt humiliated actually.  And unimportant.

And here I am on a roll and I have to go to work.

The story of my life.

I think it is really hard for people to have voicelessness together.  It is really hard to be helpful when you're hurt.  So, in that way I think this place is probably some kind of miracle--that it works at all, let alone that it works as well as it does.

Pennyplant

[Certain Hope]

Dear Pennyplant,

Not saying anything when my feelings were hurt has been... my nemesis, throughout life.

Trying to sort and work it all out internally can bring some version of resolution and the sense of self-control, but it's so empty... only reinforces a deeper sense of isolation.

I hear you saying that you feel so little in common and I recognize that as where I was, for a lifetime. It's an illusion, I now believe...
an internal defense which was arose before memory, to protect a fearful little person who didn't know how to connect.
Every place I turn now, it all comes back to that prehistoric shyness. I guess that I'm supposed to dig into that and uncover the rest of the story... but I don't... or haven't... not yet, anyway. Yesterday I read some of the "highly sensitive people" material and cringed.
Do I really want that label? What if that really is who I am? And then what?

Anyhow, there is an awareness now, in me, that we all really do have alot more in common than I ever imagined. It's still a mildly foreign concept, but I'm seeing more of it every day. It's not always pleasant to see, because that realization destroys some other old illusions... but I think it's necessary.

Love,
Hope

[pennyplant]

I really have to go now, but thank you Hope.

PP

[teartracks]

Hi Pennyplant,

I'm sorry you got your feelings hurt.    I expect that happens to most here if they hang around long enough.  And it isn't that the other person necessarily sets out to be malicious or mean, (although I've seen that happen too) it's mostly that communication is hard in the best of circumstances.  I am a fan of what you write.  I've never been one to respond to everything on the board, and I don't read everything, but I know there is substance in what you write.  I am pretty limited to what I can respond to with experience and that is having an Nmother.  I think I have good intuition/instincts about human nature and sometimes feel I can peg issues in that regard.  I have a huge regard for the board and the good it does.  The longer I linger and read, the less I have to say on issues, especially those I haven't experienced.  I figure there will always be someone who has had experience and who can offer up suggestions from that experience, where I'd just be punching in the dark.  

Sorry you had to run earlier.  Now I have to run.  I have an appointment (I think it might qualify for an Artist Date on the Artist's Way thread.)

Want to try to pick up on our trains of thought later?

tt

[pennyplant]

Yes, hopefully we can go further with this train of thought.  Tomorrow is a very early work day for me (3:30 am) so I will be turning in early tonight.  But perhaps this thread will help me sort out some things.  It is more than what happens on this board.  It is also about the evolution of relationships in real life and how complicated or mysterious it gets when something is missing from those very early relationships in our FOO.

Pennyplant

PS  Thank you TT for being a fan 

[Certain Hope]

Pennyplant,

You're welcome    My pleasure! I've always felt a connection with your posts and shared some of your views on life... enough to sense that there may be more that we each could recognize through a bit of note comparison. Worth a try!
There was definitely alot missing in my earliest relationships, to a degree that I'm only just beginning to evaluate. Talked with 16yo daughter about some of this earlier today... because she is also shy, but not in the crippling sense in which I was affected. Still, I know that there are things she needs from me which I've not been equipped to recognize... and so she and I together are trying to identify those needs (for support re: future college plans, etc) and determine together how I can help as advisor. It's just so difficult to know even what questions to ask, when nobody ever extended that sort of support. My mother demanded answers... and I was just sposed to know, I guess.
Talk about a blank.
Anyhow, I'm here when/if you want to continue...

[bigalspal]

Hi Beth & friends,
I have found a little energy today, so I would like to add my thoughts before I run out of steam.
When I first came here I was a mess! A HAPPY mess, because I found a place where people understand me. So...I let it all hang out.
Yes, I got my feelings hurt a few times, but that happens in real life, too.
I, like a lot of folks on this board, am VERY sensitive. I think that comes from not EVER being heard by my NMother & absent father.
But, I came back. This board has helped me a lot more than it's hurt me. I decided NOT to run away, like I do in the real world. I was so scared, but I stayed!
Now, of course I've been ill, but even before that, I found I wanted to wallow less in my pain & try to heal.
But, of course, if I get a nasty controlling phone call from my NMother, that might change. I might need to vent! 
And I know you guys will be there for me as I try to be there for you.
Beth, I feel myself evolving, and I like it.
I was very upset that some people didn't understand my early need to rant, but I now realize that I might get to that point as well if I stick around a long time.
It's OK, it really is.
The best part about all this has been that AHA moment that it's HER not ME. That is worth more than gold to me.
When my NMother does what she does, I know what's wrong with her. I NEVER knew that. Where was the internet when I was a little kid? 
I could be MUCH futher along! But, for everything there is a season.
I ask my GOD to bless all my friends on this board every night before I go to bed.
I used to ask him WHY? Why was I treated so horribly as a child. WHY? WHY? WHY?
Now I have an answer! She was/is an NMother!
It's the KNOWING that makes everything so much better. You guys & Dr. Grossman changed my life!
Thanks!
Love,
Bigalspal

[Ami]

Dear Penny,
  I am like Hops. As I get a stronger voice, my 3D life seems less threatening. I think that life is all about "having your own power". It is sad that it is this way,but I think that it is the reality.
   Life simply does not work if you don;t have   your  own power(IMO).
 We all have FOO issues. We repeat old patterns. The board is a great place to face these patterns. It is easier to do it on the board than in 3 D life.
  So, I would encourage you Penny, to find a few special friends that you can PM when you  have a general problem with the board. then ,use the board to get your voice back.
  I could not remain here without a few special friends that let me vent about what is happening on the board . That is what I do ,anyway.
  I have learned so, so much here. In real life,it is rare to find someone who understands N's.So, "normal" people have no idea what we have "suffered"
  As I get more whole, I can interact with others( who don't have N's) without needing the validation and affirmation that I get here
   One thing that was really painful to me was when girlfriends could not understand my M ,at all. They would say things that really, really made me feel "alone" like '
"She is your mother--- just forgive her"or "Why aren't you over it already?"
   I don't expect other people (outside   here) to get it about N's , so I can interact on other levels as I get more confidence in myself from getting my voice back on the board.
                                                                                                Love     Ami

[pennyplant]

I hear you saying that you feel so little in common and I recognize that as where I was, for a lifetime. It's an illusion, I now believe...an internal defense which was arose before memory, to protect a fearful little person who didn't know how to connect.

Hope, this really speaks to me.  How I would love to break through that illusion of separateness.  I can picture my fearful little self coming up with that kind of an armor.  It is a control thing, too, as you say.  My life has always been out of my control.  Every little aspect of life.  Doesn't everyone on some level want to have at least some control over the things that are theirs, that effect their day to day life?  Isn't wanting to be in control just another way of wanting to matter?  I have never really mattered to very many people.  I have especially never really mattered to me.  And that is the source of a lot anger and heartbreak for me.

So, I come on here and post and once in a great while someone else will dismiss what I posted.  And I think--well, I guess I don't matter here either.  How heartbreaking is that?  It has happened maybe three or four times in a year and a half.  Not bad, really.  But very memorable and very painful at the time.  It must be part of being very, very sensitive as Bigalspal points out.  Wow, it is so hard to be this sensitive.

I've been here long enough to remember some people who came and went and haven't been heard from in awhile.  But I never name a thread for them.  That's just my thing.  It seems like if I do that I'm leaving out someone else and maybe making them think, why doesn't anyone miss me enough to name a thread for me and wonder where I am?  I don't think people do that in order to hurt others.  But it hurts me sometimes.  And I figure it might hurt others too.  Sometimes the people being "called out to" have only missed a couple of days of posting.  I figure they got busy or something and will be back.  Should I worry more than I do?  I don't want to have more things to worry about!

It does feel better to know that there are others here with similar N-experience to my own.  I know I am very fortunate not to have married an N because I was certainly groomed very well to do so.  But the thing is, even though I am glad I didn't have to suffer that, on this board there is a certain comradery that develops among the people with certain experiences and traumas.  Like a ready-made bond.  Probably a bond you folks didn't ask for!  I guess I'm still looking for such a bond.  Or looking to build one.

Likely I am still playing it safe and not really expressing myself 100 percent.  I have a lot of fear about expressing myself fully.  It's very hard to really connect if you are stingy about expressing yourself.  I think I am very stingy that way.

Pennyplant

[pennyplant]

Hi Ami,

I want so much to have my own power.  Power from within, not power over others.  I am still very afraid to be myself, like I was saying above.  In the past here, I have done some PMing.  Even in PMs I don't feel safe to express my true opinions on some things.  Not sure if it is my normal lack of trust or a result of seeing a couple people here make PMs public.  Honestly, I think I have a very deep-seated lack of trust.  I can't really separate that out from other issues on the board.  That is what I bring to this place, a lack of trust.

I love reading people's true opinions and feelings.  I am amazed that they feel free enough or brave enough to do that.  There have been some very blunt comments here from time to time.  Usually I have to be very angry to be blunt.  Or hyper or something.

Way back when, I got PMed by someone who I had supported on the board.  It was nice.  But it ended awkwardly.  The person suddenly stopped answering me.  It reminded me of what my latest N had done by using silence to torment me.  Now with the N, it was my own fault.  I told him all my weak points--laid it all right out there in one long conversation.  He soaked it up like a sponge and used every bit of it against me over time.  The board member who PMed me may or may not have been doing the same thing.  But it felt like the same thing.  Only, I never told them that.  I just let it go.  And vowed to not interact much with that person.  Now I think I handled it the wrong way.  But I don't know what the right way would have been!  Honesty maybe?  I didn't want to seem blaming or paranoid.  I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt.  But what to say to someone who has possibly innocently triggered you?

Sometimes it feels like I have to keep starting over again all the time!

You're completely right about the lack of understanding of N in the real world.  In my situation, I see Ns getting everything all the time.  People gravitate to them, prefer them, kowtow to them.  Once in awhile, someone will say, Oh, I see right through so and so.  That feels good to get validation that way.  But it really doesn't happen all that often.

I guess that's why I stay here even when I'm unhappy with the place.  If there is anyplace where I might eventually fit in or figure it out--it's this place and these people.  It's never simple though.

Must say good night now.  3:30 am will be here before I know it.

Love, Pennyplant