Is It Always N Behavior to Violate Others' Boundaries?

[Ami]

I don't think that the N's can "help" their core dysfunction. They can help individual behaviors,like screaming at a particular person.
  However,with my M, I see that her "core" is infected, as a computer would be with a virus. She is trying to be loving to me ,now, as best as she can, but all the while, she is wielding the knife in me, to prove that SHE is good and *I* am lesser -----over and over---bleh.
 So, her core problem i.e. that she has little self, cannot be changed by me. She cannot give me a healthy love,which nourishes me. She can give me poisoned water and she does.  I aways drank it b/c I wanted water so badly.
 My Aunt's children can never know the pain of wanting a "wire monkey" to nurture you. They lived a totally different life.
 Now, I have to untangle the ball of yarn which  is her and me and her and me--all mixed up----bleh.     Ami

[BonesMS]

Thanks, Carolyn.

I recently got ANOTHER e-mail from NDoofus and I have not responded to her.  She has previously complained that her brother-in-law doesn't speak to her and her sister does not talk to her as much.  She has not yet asked why I have not responded.  When she has been confronted by her other relatives, she continues to act completely oblivious to WHY everyone is angry at her.

Bones

Dear Bones,

I don't think she's acting... she seems to be genuinely oblivious. That doesn't mean she should receive pity or enabling as a response... only that maybe the anger at her can get chucked out the door and a new reason for not responding to her could take its place... ?
Just a thought. This is the way I'm trying to view my parents mail-contacts to me... so that they'll no longer arouse madness OR pity, but a detached understanding that this is simply the way they are.

Reason being, somewhere deep inside, I think it's possible for us to convince ourselves that we really are angry at "them"... long past the point where the anger shoulda been replaced by acceptance - not of their bad behaviour, but of our own inability to change them.

Love to you,
Carolyn

Thanks, Carolyn.

I get angry when she creates situations that are damaging to everyone around her.

Bones

[BonesMS]

I don't think that the N's can "help" their core dysfunction. They can help individual behaviors,like screaming at a particular person.
  However,with my M, I see that her "core" is infected, as a computer would be with a virus. She is trying to be loving to me ,now, as best as she can, but all the while, she is wielding the knife in me, to prove that SHE is good and *I* am lesser -----over and over---bleh.
 So, her core problem i.e. that she has little self, cannot be changed by me. She cannot give me a healthy love,which nourishes me. She can give me poisoned water and she does.  I aways drank it b/c I wanted water so badly.
 My Aunt's children can never know the pain of wanting a "wire monkey" to nurture you. They lived a totally different life.
 Now, I have to untangle the ball of yarn which  is her and me and her and me--all mixed up----bleh.     Ami

Thanks, Ami.

Interestingly, as I was watching Judge Judy on Friday, February 22nd, there was a case where the defendant was CLEARLY an N!  She was stating that her daughter-in-law "stole her son from her and SHE wants her son back"!  She took money from her son and daughter-in-law and exhibited this attitude of ENTITLEMENT at Judge Judy!  (Wrong move!)  Judge Judy explained to the plaintiffs that the defendant clearly has a personality disorder while awarding money to the plaintiffs.  The son tried to bridge the gap between himself and his mother only to have the Nmother demand ALL OR NOTHING!  The only thing I could do was shake my head.

Bones

[Certain Hope]

Thanks, Carolyn.

I get angry when she creates situations that are damaging to everyone around her.

Bones

Yeah, I hear you, Bones... me, too, at times... and I know there is a version of anger which is righteous.

Where that righteous anger crosses the line in me, is when I get to feeling:
a) Self-righteous about it (like I'm better than the annoying one)
or
b) Controlling (like it's my job to work out other peoples' issues with the annoying one).

Gets me dizzy at times, but detachment helps to step back from both of the above and just work out my own issues.

Hope you have a good weekend after work!

Love,
Carolyn

[Ami]

Dear Carolyn and Bones,
  SinceI lost Scott ,I have gotten more of an empathy for people's issues. I tried so hard to be a good mother and to provide a "good "
life for my kids.Scott did the worst thing a kid could ever do. So, where did my 'smarts" get me?
 I see my H with the same non=judging eyes(mostly). He tried to do what he was programmed to do and he "lost"--big time.
 My M was (and is) underwater.
I am almost to the top---almost--not quite.
 The Bible says the sins of the fathers are visited on the sons down to the third generation(paraphrase).
 We, all ,get caught in the FOO  web and things get beyond our control and start spinning in ways we would never imagine(IME)
                      Love    Ami

[Certain Hope]

((((((Ami)))))   You know that passage doesnt refer to judgment, right? I mean... in prophesying the new covenant, Jeremiah chapter 31 sheds a fresh light, I believe, on what you've mentioned here. Because of that new covenant in Christ, I am certain that Scott didn't die because of anyone else's sins or as a consequence of any judgment of God on your family. But I do know the effects of generational consequences within families, including my own. Thank God He gives us His Holy Spirit and makes us new creations in Christ Jesus, breaking the cords of all our old webs. Without Him, I know that my core is infected with the same virus as my mother, or yours, or anyone else...that virus of sin. These are the things I've been talking about with my older 2 daughters recently... because I want to make sure they know about the new covenant, and not just the dead religion I knew while they were still here in our home. Hope that makes sense.

Love,
Carolyn

[BonesMS]

Thanks, Carolyn.

I get angry when she creates situations that are damaging to everyone around her.

Bones

Yeah, I hear you, Bones... me, too, at times... and I know there is a version of anger which is righteous.

Where that righteous anger crosses the line in me, is when I get to feeling:
a) Self-righteous about it (like I'm better than the annoying one)
or
b) Controlling (like it's my job to work out other peoples' issues with the annoying one).

Gets me dizzy at times, but detachment helps to step back from both of the above and just work out my own issues.

Hope you have a good weekend after work!

Love,
Carolyn

Thanks, Carolyn.

What makes me angry is when I see her do stuff that puts her mother at risk, given her disabilities (i.e. Alzheimer's, losing her balance, etc.) as well as her attempts to rip apart my regalia, at my graduation, which amounted to a physical assault.

Bones

[BonesMS]

Dear Carolyn and Bones,
  SinceI lost Scott ,I have gotten more of an empathy for people's issues. I tried so hard to be a good mother and to provide a "good "
life for my kids.Scott did the worst thing a kid could ever do. So, where did my 'smarts" get me?
 I see my H with the same non=judging eyes(mostly). He tried to do what he was programmed to do and he "lost"--big time.
 My M was (and is) underwater.
I am almost to the top---almost--not quite.
 The Bible says the sins of the fathers are visited on the sons down to the third generation(paraphrase).
 We, all ,get caught in the FOO  web and things get beyond our control and start spinning in ways we would never imagine(IME)
                      Love    Ami

(((((((((((((((((((((Ami)))))))))))))))))))))))

Bones

[BonesMS]

I wanted to post this thought or two on the Board to see what other people think about this.

Recently, my bf and I were watching the DVDs of Season 2, DS9...the episode titled:  "Crossover".  At the time I first saw this episode about ten or so years ago, I didn't know about Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  As I was re-watching it, I realized that the "Intendant" was as Narcissistic as one could get when she met her "Mirror" counterpart...especially when she told her, in one scene:  "I don't want your fear, I want your love"!   

Bones

[Certain Hope]

Hi Bones,

Sorry, this is over my head, I think... but one thing - when my ex was not trying to absorb me or become me, he often did give me the impression that having me fear him was just exactly what he wanted... so, I guess I don't get it?

Love,
Carolyn

[BonesMS]

Hi Bones,

Sorry, this is over my head, I think... but one thing - when my ex was not trying to absorb me or become me, he often did give me the impression that having me fear him was just exactly what he wanted... so, I guess I don't get it?

Love,
Carolyn

Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly.  One of the other things that was in the episode was that the "Intendant" was in love with her "Mirror" self.  If that is not Narcissism, I don't know what is.

Bones

[Certain Hope]

Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly.  One of the other things that was in the episode was that the "Intendant" was in love with her "Mirror" self.  If that is not Narcissism, I don't know what is.

Bones

oh. Yup, I see, Bones.

It's so strange... when I met my ex, he mirrored to me all of my own best qualities and I "fell in love" with him. So I wonder whether we don't all tend to love our "selves" that way, to an extent....  like when we meet someone whom we think is a kindred spirit.
But of course N's are hollow-cored, so we really are falling for a reflection.

Not sure that makes sense, but o well.

Love,
Carolyn

[BonesMS]

Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly.  One of the other things that was in the episode was that the "Intendant" was in love with her "Mirror" self.  If that is not Narcissism, I don't know what is.

Bones

oh. Yup, I see, Bones.

It's so strange... when I met my ex, he mirrored to me all of my own best qualities and I "fell in love" with him. So I wonder whether we don't all tend to love our "selves" that way, to an extent....  like when we meet someone whom we think is a kindred spirit.
But of course N's are hollow-cored, so we really are falling for a reflection.

Not sure that makes sense, but o well.

Love,
Carolyn

I think we gravitate toward the "familiar" in an unconscious attempt to "fix" the unfixable.

Bones

[Certain Hope]

I think we gravitate toward the "familiar" in an unconscious attempt to "fix" the unfixable.

Bones

I guess that's the general theory, Bones... so as long as we leave the fixing to the master Fixer, then we'll be able to keep marching toward the goal.

Love,
Carolyn

[BonesMS]

I think we gravitate toward the "familiar" in an unconscious attempt to "fix" the unfixable.

Bones

I guess that's the general theory, Bones... so as long as we leave the fixing to the master Fixer, then we'll be able to keep marching toward the goal.

Love,
Carolyn

Thanks, Carolyn!

Bones