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standing up to an N

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mrt:
Dawning,

My dealings with my N mother have taught me never give her any fuel for her anger. A long letter will just add to the fire.  

My mother in law who is very wise told me a story that when she young, she sent a letter to a relative letting her know how she felt. (She was peeved with her for something) Well anyway after the lady died many years later,  her family were going through her things and they found that letter that was sent so many years before.  She had kept it all those years.

If I were to send my mother a letter she would keep it until she died. No doubt about it.  It wouldn't help my cause one lousy bit anyway. I have no voice. I realized that finally.

 My mother would take the letter and would read it and re-read it and be wounded and re-wounded  Revelling in the pain. It would be all about her. The message that I would be trying to relay (I.E.  Mom - You are toxic to me -you hurt me)   would get flipped  in her mind anyway. She would turn it around and say that I was toxic to her - never seeing my points, never seeing that she was hurting me, never seeing that I was not an extension of her and had my own life,wants, dreams &  desires,  never seeing that not everything I did was about her, basically never SEEING.

I hated talking to my mother on the phone too. It got so bad that she once said that I was a "phone retard". The fact of the matter is that I was censoring myself at every sentence before I said it. Will this hurt her feelings? Will she take this the wrong way? Will she read between the lines and read something into what I'm saying that I didn't intend? Will this or that offend her? Heaven forbid I offend her - I'll never hear the end of it. - She'll use this against me for ever. She'll drag this up 20 years from now. It got to the point that I could barely speak - My mind was working overtime just trying to calculate what to say and finally I could barely say anything -because EVERYTHING was about /against/ her.

Nothing I can say to reveal myself gets through. I doubt that it ever will. I gave up trying to tell her how I feel & what I think. It is irrelavant anyway to her. She is a  black hole in my life. I've thrown so much energy down the drain, so much time and effort. It got me nowhere. We are now estranged today because of what "I've" done / or not done. (in her mind)

 We are estranged today because "I" quit giving. I cut off the one way supply. We are at a standstill. I've got nothing more to tell her. I've got nothing more to share.  I've got nothing more that I want to say  that I haven't already TRIED to say in the past.  If she doesn't want to know who I am,  then I don't want her to know who I am - I don't care anymore.

Should you give up on having a voice with her? "The voice that is welling up and wants to come out" - probably so. Why waste your time anymore? Will it get you the results that you need? Will it give her fuel to burn hotter? Will it do you any good in the long run? Will you guys be closer or more distant?

  I can certainly empathize with you. Let your voice be heard here.

mrtraced

Dawning:
Thanks to all of you who have replied thus far.  I haven't been able to spend much time writing today but I've read all the replies.  THANKS for your support.  

Will be back later.  Hold down the fort, fellow-Swans. :D

~Dawning

Dawning:
Thanks for all the replies thus far.   I also realized that what I have been saying in my heart/mind since I was a little girl is, "if she only knew what she was doing, she would stop."  So when New Guest wrote
--- Quote ---There's no doubt that your mom is hurting you, that she doesn't play fair. From what you say, that is simply the way she is. The way she chooses to be.
--- End quote ---
I wondered last night, if she is choosing or doing it all unconciously or somewhere in between and I am curious - in a weird objective kind of way - to what degree she is aware of what she's doing.
There is a big part of me (maybe the little girl part) that still questions her behaviour as  *I wonder if she knows what she is doing?*  I look forward to participating on Rob's thread when I get back.  Over the past 4 years, the other family members have written her off or pulled far, far away.  She moved in with my grandmother when she lost her rental property.  


--- Quote ---My advice? Show her you're the kind of person who doesn't put up with emotional blackmail, childish tantrums from adults, and who takes responsibility for her own growth, thankyouverymuch.
--- End quote ---


Thanks for that, Wildflower and (and thanks for posting that link to another thread.)  I have felt it for a long time but felt alone and too vulnerable to stand up to her without support from somewhere so it is nice to hear it from someone else.  Showing her is difficult when we live a 16 hour plane ride away from one another.  But, yes, actions speak louder than words.  And she is angry at me now because I am not putting up with her behaviour.  My cousin's advice was to send the letter otherwise, she will think she can get away with it the next time.

P, your suggestion of what to write to her is spot-on.  Thanks for putting that up.  I helps me along.  "Keep drawing back."  

What I am coming around to accepting is that is possible (and definitely necessary now) to have a relationship with her only from a distance and   I can have emotional distance from her at any time.   This is going to take some work and, no doubt, will involve some rocky boat rides but I guess it is like a journey in a way - a new dance.  But I reckon she is going to howl and get really nasty at the beginning and that may last a long time..  How can it be that she relates to me the way a 6 year old relates to his/her mother?

I am still wondering about that letter.  Maybe I will post some snippets of it here.   :)   Thanks all of you for listening and offering the stuff of wisdom.  Thanks for being here.  I would like to answer some of the questions so gratefully received.  I am going to the mountains for 4 nights starting today and will be back Wednesday.  While gone, I will be re-reading Healing the Child Within and possibly the Boundaries book by Anne Katherine.  That one is also very good.

Love and Peace 2 all of you.

~Dawning

Anonymous:
Hi Dawning –


--- Quote ---OR spilling my guts to her once and for all by sending the long letter I finished writing last week… The danger in doing this is that she will take any response and run with it, using it as a way to get back inside my head.
--- End quote ---


I know it's terribly tempting to want to send that letter and believe that at some level your mother will grasp what you are feeling and how she has hurt you. I think you already know that it won’t happen.  


--- Quote ---What I wonder is how much can we, those of us who deal with Ns in our lives, influence our own outcome. For example, if you change the way you see your mother, you see her the way a stranger would. No emotional ties. Just as another human person. Would the outcome change for you? You mention that she acts in a horrible way, and then sometime later you do some action to make things better. A stranger wouldn't do the action to make things better. They'd take the situation for what it was. If they met a rude, selfish and careless person, they would distance themselves. No trying to fix. No making better. No getting involved. They wouldn't be terribly hurt or angry. It would be one more interaction with a rude person.
--- End quote ---



--- Quote ---I want from her what I can't have from her. I must have realized that in childhood and coped by telling myself that I shouldn't want anything and so, yes, I have deprived myself in certain areas that were important to me...and now I want to want a more meaningful life and I am wondering if part of that change may involve standing up to her.
--- End quote ---



--- Quote ---sending her a quick reply to today's email telling her there is nothing wrong with me and I won't have her continue to tell me so
--- End quote ---


Your and Guest Today’s posts above reminded me of a section in the book When You and Your Mother Can’t Be Friends, where the author talks about breaking the pattern of interaction you have with your mother by setting limits on her behaviour and controlling your own reaction rather than trying to change hers. I just loved these when I read them because they seemed so sane and right, but were things that I would never have thought of saying.  Here are three (I’m paraphrasing some of this):

Georgia, a high school principal with three young children, decided for Christmas to give all the women in her family nightgowns by mail order. “My mother was offended because I didn’t take the time to go to a store and get something different…She called me at school and started screamiing at me. I did what I always do and got defensive and said ‘Mom, I have to buy forty Christmas gifts – don’t you know the one thing I don’t have is time to shop for presents?’ Suddenly I realized that I was talking to a child, and I was acting like one. I thought, Why am I defending myself? Why should I have to be saying this? Finally, I said, ‘This is unacceptable behaviour and I never want to have a conversation like this with you again,’ and I hung up. I looked up and the office staff, who knew all about my mother, were standing there cheering.”...

When my daughter graduated from college, I threw a huge party for her. When my mother arrived, she looked at me and said, “I hate your hairdo.” Then she walked into the dining room and said, “Where’d you get that ugly flower arrangement?” I calmly replied, “If you’re going to talk to me like that, I don’t want you here.” She was shocked. But she didn’t say another critical word....

If your mother says, “Your brother calls me every day, you only call every other day,” you can say, “Yup. That’s right.” Your mother may be so startled by your agreeing with her that she’ll change the subject. Repeating your line enough times may discourage her from every bringing up the subject again. Let us say, however, that she pursues it – she tells you you’re “selfish,” rebuking you as though you were a misbehaving child. You can reply, “If you’re going to speak to me that way, I’m not going to call you for a while. I feel you’re being rude. I don’t like your tone. I won’t allow anyone to speak to me that way.”

The big point for me in all of these is that you don’t respond to the content of the criticism or attack – no matter what it’s about – by arguing or defending. Instead, you label your mother’s behaviour for what it is (rude, insulting, etc.) and say you won’t tolerate it. In your post above about sending a quick reply, why say, "There's nothing wrong with me"? That only gives her the opportunity to say, "Yes, there is." Could you just say, "Your comments are rude and insulting and if you ever say anything like that again I won't reply" -- or something like that?        
 
I don’t know how your mother would react to being treated like this – i.e. like a rude person whose behaviour you won’t tolerate. The point is that you don’t try to predict, control or change her reaction – you decide what your reaction will be and stick to it.

My personal experience is that every effort on my part to explain my feelings to my mother in the expectation that she will understand or sympathize have failed, and I no longer share anything with her that would make me vulnerable to her, but I have gotten some satisfaction from labelling her unacceptable behaviours.


Guest

Anonymous:
I just have to buy that book too. It's on my amazon list. And so so so thankyou for reminding me how much I need to read it plus that other one!?. That was a really comprehensive post 'guest'. They're some very good words, feedback and thoughts for you Dawning, and all of us dealing with (to put it mildly, how about crushed by) bullying, selfish, destructive, manipulative and even N family members friends a co-workers. What daya' reckon Dawning?

CG

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