Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
standing up to an N
Singer:
--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---I keep coming up against the idea that my mother is suffering just as much as I am. In a different way, yet the same. She sees me through the filter of her neglectful mother; I see her as my mother but through the filter of a child's eyes - at age 2, 10, 19 and all the ages in between as the occasion dictates (otherwise I couldn't experience myself as her 'victim').
Is it - ultimately - so very different??? Hmmm - only in terms of insight, I think. She has none. I struggle to 'get there'. She's dangerous to me when she's an angry 2 year old and if I'm open to her (whatever age I'm experiencing her at). So that's when NOT to get involved in attempting to 'reason'. But two people who are 'capable' of being 'grownup' should be able to go the extra mile towards mutual understanding, even when hurting.
Challenging thoughts????
Hugs to all.
R
--- End quote ---
Rosencrantz,
I find these very challenging thoughts. At first it seemed enough just to have a glimmer of understanding as to what was going on as far as life with a NMother. But what do I do now?
My mother had some tough times growing up. She was the oldest of 9 children and her mother died when my mother was 17 and her youngest brother was 4. Then her father was hit by a car and killed 10 years later. Being the oldest must certainly have been a factor in her personality. And the loss of her mother would have compounded that.
I'm not sure what the situation with her father was. She claims he was an alcoholic and extremely authoritarian; but anyone who disagrees with her is at fault, and the only time she approves of drinking is when she would like a drink. Which, thankfully, is very seldom, especially these days.
Now that she's 79 years old, does this excuse past and present cruelty? I think she must be suffering, but maybe that's just projecting.
You say your mother has no insight, and neither does mine. None whatsoever, I believe. But maybe I'm wrong. It's the not knowing that keeps my guilt running full tilt when I try to keep my distance.
One thing I'm sure of is that she's really not capable of being a "grown-up" in the real sense. And I'm almost certain there will never be any mutual understanding.
My mother's way of maintaining relationships is to deal with one family member at a time, alternating between rage and the ability to act as though nothing has ever been wrong in the relationship. Unfortunately both my sister and brother accept this and lie low when the rage is at them, resurfacing and pretending nothing happened when it's directed somewhere else.
I can't do this anymore. Or maybe I can, and I'm just being selfish. Not long ago my mother phoned me at 11:30 pm to say she was feeling unwell and wanted to let me know in case she expired during the night. "I shouldn't trouble myself," but she thought someone should know. Of course I offered to come right over, which I did, and stayed with her all night leaving at around 6:00 am when she was certain the crisis had passed.
I still don't know what the actual health problem was, some stomach discomfort...all very vague. But she later mentioned to me, as if it were perfectly reasonable, that her real reason in wanting me to come over was so that I could write down her dying words. She even had a steno pad and a pen ready when I arrived, although I didn't know that until later. I guess she couldn't quite bring herself to request that I be poised to take dictation all night. She's been preparing for her deathbed scene ever since my father died three years ago, instructing as to who she will and will not allow to be present depending on who's in favor and who's out.
The reality is that one of these days, it will be for real and I have to ask myself if I can live with myself if I'm not there for her. Or this could go on for another fifteen or more years in which case I'll be in a strait jacket and unable to take dictation anyway when the actual moment comes.
It's all VERY challenging :( and I'm certain that from the perspective of anyone who has NOT had to deal with an N, that I am neither understanding, nor mature. How does one go about explaining this stuff to "normal" people without sounding like an absolute fool?
Singer
kelly8893:
I know there are alot of replies here but standing up to an N is critical to real human growth beyond these people and to stand up to know YOU are not crazy, they are!!!!!!!!!!!! This can not be stressed enough!!! They pull you into their world and all of a sudden you don't exist. WE can not let that happen forever or can not be in their world for long if you want real growth!
I have been away from my ex-N for almost 6 months now ( I moved far away for him) and I am just realizing how much I had entered into "his world" and I did not exist in it. I exist and I am a person with feelings and emotions and love and kindness, I don't have anyone telling me that I am wrong all the time. I am able to feel my feelings even though at times this has been difficult due to not having any for 20 years but it is great to have them and to feel them!!!!
I know it must seem easy for me to talk about moving away and having distance between me and my ex-N but that was for saftey and my kids.
When it is a parent that is something else all together and I can relate.
My mother was not an N but she was and is mentally ill and a phycopath, I am not being mean that is her diagnoises. Growing up in that environment is very similar to the N's world, they think they are the only ones with feelings and everyone else especially children are to be seen but not heard. So guess what that means you have no feelings!! ( No wonder I am drawn to mentally ill people, God help me!) So my advice to Mother's who are like this, except them for who they are and don't try and change them but stand up and let them know you will not be treated like that as adults. No will change unless they want to change but if you change your behavoir then they will have to change theirs eventually.
Thanks for letting me sound off and Have a great weekend!!! kelly
Dawning:
Help-Attention Campaign - brilliant! THANKS for putting in the link, Willdflower. Rojo, if you are out there....you really put it into words...I feel it too.
New Guest:
--- Quote ---What I wonder is how much can we, those of us who deal with Ns in our lives, influence our own outcome. For example, if you change the way you see your mother, you see her the way a stranger would.
--- End quote ---
Ah, but my mother would be on to that for a second. It is okay dealing with her from 7,000 miles away but - with her- I've got to think differently almost. 6 year old, 6 year old. I'm learning to accept that.
~D.
Dawning:
--- Quote --- My mother would take the letter and would read it and re-read it and be wounded and re-wounded Revelling in the pain. It would be all about her. The message that I would be trying to relay (I.E. Mom - You are toxic to me -you hurt me) would get flipped in her mind anyway. She would turn it around and say that I was toxic to her - never seeing my points, never seeing that she was hurting me, never seeing that I was not an extension of her and had my own life,wants, dreams & desires, never seeing that not everything I did was about her, basically never SEEING.
--- End quote ---
Oh, gawd. I'm sorry, you too? That is so true. My mother would do the same thing. I SEE. Yes, it's true. I see the same thing as you. (Does that not sound like Dr. Suess...? lightness...) It is just amazing, though. They don't see in *that* way. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, mrtraced.
Well, the latest. Getting emails from her. Haven't spoken since the end of March. I'm replying with the aid of an hour glass to time my replies. :lol: Based on recent email, she is transferrring the Nsupply to my grandmother who is already an N - but an old one. When grandmother goes, Nmom is highly likely to to turn to me again. (maybe she'll find someone else....I still have hope.) I can't kick the woman out on the streets and it is not in my nature to do this. Although, if she knew I was even having the thought, she would be like Blanche Dubois in a Streetcar Named Desire and I am the GUILTY PARTY just for insinuating that she was less than perfect and not deserving of ALL my attention. Whew!! I can't - above all else - talk about how I feel about my life but yet she seems to want to know. Then, I give in to belief and tell her about my life and she judges it as if she is in a position to do so. Maybe relating to her as a stranger is the way. Something to ponder. But I would probably have to put on a good act at the beginning.
~D.
Anonymous:
Hi--I'm a new poster here but I've been reading this board for a few weeks on and off.
My response is slightly on/off topic. I "stood up to N" this morning but it was my ex-SO, not my mother. Of course, he doesn't know I stood up to him because I did it by choosing not to confront him with the casual lie he told me yesterday and the evidence he left for me to see. Any attention I give him, good or bad, is just more documentation of how important he thinks he is to me and I just won't give that to him anymore.
So instead of talking to him or writing the long email to him, I wrote the email to my sister. We are survivors of an N-mother and she is my biggest supporter through all of this--likewise, I am hers.
My recommendation is to write all the letters you need to, edit them as many times as you want, and send them to yourself, a supporter, or this board. Remember "the truth" for N is whatever suits his/her need at the moment. Since your letter will not suit their needs, it will automatically be "lies" from the N-pointofview. Get your satisfaction from knowing the N will never get to use your insight against you.
Take care and be strong--
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