Author Topic: Lindo Jong is my mother...  (Read 5305 times)

cate

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Lindo Jong is my mother...
« on: August 20, 2007, 06:43:22 PM »
My mother is a N...or maybe she is just plain mean...i go back and forth on it constantly. 

Anyone ever see Joy Luck Club? Lindo Jong - Waverly's mother? The one who liked her daughter playing chess just so she could SHOW OFF to all of her chinese friends and brag...then when Waverly decided not to play the mother completely SHUNS her and IGNORES her from the family....until she can't take it anymore, gives in and decides to play chess again so she can get her mother's F'ng approval....but the mother tells her it won't be so easy to get her approval NOW...and poor Waverly feels CURSED...fails at chess...totally, utterly, completely under her mother's CONTROL and MANIPULATION?

Waverly is an independent-minded and intelligent woman, but is annoyed by her mother's constant criticism. Well into her adult life, she finds herself restrained by her subconscious fear of letting her mother down.....Makes me wretch every time i watch that movie b/c I have that mother...

Ami

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2007, 07:42:32 PM »
Welcome--- Cate
     Please share about your mother in more detail.It is awful to have av N mother. I have one ,too.
     You are in the right place for understanding and hope                                        Love    Ami
   
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Hopalong

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2007, 08:20:42 PM »
Hi Cate,
I'm glad you're here.
It may be welcome comfort to hear so many (including me, in the very recent past) seething about N mothers.
It feels like the worst betrayal, when you realize your mother cannot love you, cannot support you, cannot praise you. Cannot be your ally, and worse, can be your enemy.

It is so sad, or worse--the kind of profound psychic shock others describe--to face that reality.

(Ultimately is the door to your freedom. Once you are able to let go of hoping for it to be different, you can make room for actual love in your life. It's letting go of the source you yearn for that is the painful part.)

Hopalong

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teartracks

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2007, 08:23:39 PM »
Hi Cate,

Kind greetings and welcome!

Look forward to hearing more of your story. 

tt

cate

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2007, 09:04:11 PM »
Waverly (Age 6-9) (Vu Mai) : I've decided to play chess again.

Lindo: You think it is so easy. One day quit, next day play. Everything for you is this way: so smart, so easy, so fast. Not so easy anymore.

Waverly: What she said, it was like a curse. This power I had, this belief in myself, I could actually feel it draining away. I could feel myself becoming ordinary. All the secrets I once saw, I couldn't see them anymore. All I could see was, were my mistakes, my weaknesses. The best part of me just disappeared. But I can't put it all on my mother. I did it to myself. I never played chess again.


---------------

My mother:

- Loves me, praises me, adores me, is affectionate towards me IF i do as she wants, think like she wants, does what she wants

- Ignores, shames, criticizes, demeans if i do anything to displease her

She has not spoken to me for over 3 years now....why? b/c i dared to resume my relationship with my father as an adult. She divorced him when i was 9 and my entire life made him out to be the devil.  Well he is NOT the devil and my mother is not the saint she likes to portray herself as.

I can never tell her what is on my mind. It is always MIND GAMES (like in the movie).  I am never allowed to make a mistake. If i make a mistake it is never the same again (just like it was never the same again for Waverly and chess).

You know what i wanted to scream at the movie screen..."you stupid mother. Why can't you just hold onto your daughter and tell her you are proud of her? Chess or no chess? Let her do what she will. She is NOT your puppet to show off to all of your Chinese girlfriends.  A normal mother would love her daughter for WHO she is not what she does/doesn't do."

I have never felt accepted by my mother. I am constantly putting off important decisions in my life b/c i am still that 4 yo girl trying to win her approval...trying to "guess" what will make HER happy...will SHE approve? will she accept this choice?....if not, just watch as everything crumbles around you. My mother is queen of the curse...just one look....and you know you've done "wrong' in her eyes.....heaven help you if you "guess" wrong...

She thinks she made me strong...but i am just a weak, insecure little puppet.  I don't have my own mind...only her voice in my head like a damn taperecorder i can never turn off.

All efforts to try to talk things out and reason with her have failed. She doesn't return my calls, returns my letters, gives me the cold shoulder.  I am cut off. SHunned. SHe is ashamed to call me her daughter. All b/c she thinks i love my father more than her...it wasn't true...but now my love for her is turning into HATE.  I see now how impossible she made life for my father...no wonder he left. No wonder he did the things he did....her cold, distant heart that CUTS YOU UP AND OUT to protect that pathetic withered insecure nothing she is inside....

My father loved her more than anything but her pride, her ego, her unforgiveness was just too much for him....

What kind of cold-hearted bitch can just pretend like her children don't exist?  Just like Lindo cutting off waverly and giving her the silent treatment b/c of the stupid argument in the street.

What is the MOST sickening part of the movie?



Waverly:  You don't know, you don't know the power you have over me. One word from you, one look, and I'm four years old again, crying myself to sleep, because nothing I do can ever, ever please you.

Lindo (LAUGHING):  Now you make me very happy! 

WTF!!! What sick N mother is HAPPY when her daughter is insecure? WHat kind of monster relishes the POWER exerted over her grown daughter?  Sick sick sick!




Iphi

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2007, 09:23:04 PM »
Hi cate and welcome - I agree about the curse - Ami also said something about it on another topic (I think it is "Shock") that her mother is like a curse.  I've been thinking about that all evening.

I think it is beyond outrageous that your mom would do something as stupid as cut off first your father and then you.  It's an outrage! 
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant

Ami

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2007, 10:17:00 PM »
Dear Cate.
   You are a true "soul sister". It is HORRIBLE to realize that you have a mother like this. I am in "shock",literally and have been for 3 months--- since I started coming out of denial.
  There are no nice words to make it O.K...
  My mother is the definition of the word "curse " -- as yours sounds to be, also.
   The board gives me so much strength when I simply want to give up. I think of the lovely people that I know on the board with N mothers-- Iphi, Tweety, Janet, Peace, Shunned, Tayana,Bella, GS, MS, towrite, Kelly, Besee, Bean , Authentic,Penny, Bigalspal, Hops,TT, Dandy,(forgive me if I forgot anyone-- I am tired tonight). All these lovely people get up every day and go on. They go forth with all the same pain. The are out there and that gives me strength, Cate.
  Welcome to a beautiful fraternity. We did not chose to be members,but we" hold hands' , give each other strength and go on.
                                                                                         Love      Ami
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 10:20:43 PM by Ami »
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

cate

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2007, 02:08:37 AM »
Thanks Ami. I read your SHOCK post and it definitely rang a bell.

I think what has me most perplexed is getting my head around the fact that my mother is sick and does not love in a NORMAL healthy way.  I thought what i had with her was LOVE...but it was in fact emeshment...just like you said.  Constantly fighting, struggling to please her and win her approval and love...but that is NOT LOVE...true love does not need to be constantly earned. It just IS.

I am grateful for my husband and sane mother in law who show me by example what real love is.  My DH actually punched his father in the nose when he was a teenager...they do not constantly bring up the past. It is discussed, forgiven, move on.

I have 4 children. My mother never visited me with the first 3...always "annoyed" that i was a baby factory...always too busy with her own agenda to care for me when i needed her...then with baby 4 my grandma comes over and suddenly i am getting food brought to my door (just left at the doorstop...never a visit to see how i am doing...never a hug or kiss or moment to talk)

It suddenly hit me that the only reason my mother did this was b/c my grandma MADE HER...told her it was expected...it was my grandma's idea...my mother didn't give a damn.

Everything i wanted and thought i had from my mother was CONNECTION...but i never had connection. I was just a pawn in her stupid games.

What makes me sick is how my mother tells everyone what a wonderful grandmother she is and yet refuses to even send a card to my children for their birthdays, christmas....never takes them out anywhere..never babysits (Even though i did a TON for her for free for years and years looking after my younger siblings).  WHen i ask her why she doesn't even give a damn about her grandkids she tells me she is not going to be "roped in" and that i use them to "blackmail her" - sick, twisted bitch!  For all her going on about how important family is and how "children are the innocent ones" - she's full of shit!

I feel so empty, so alone, so disillusioned. My mother is just a FAKE! Everything she ever did for me was b/c she expected something in return.  Sorry for the anger in my post.

Most days i try to get through it...sometimes i even have love for her...compassion even...but when i think of all of the things she has missed out on - ON PURPOSE JUST TO HURT ME WITH THE MOST VENOM....stripping me naked with her vicious words when a simple reprimand would have sufficed...

I live with a pit in my stomach and a knot in my neck.  I just want peace in my life...but i have no peace. Not with her in it (constantly walking on eggshells waiting for the next melodramatic crisis) OR wounded, crying, guilt ridden when she gives me her stupid silent treatment.

How anyone can live with her is beyond me. No wonder she has 2 failed marriages.  I just don't know HOW to get past this. $10000's of dollars in therapy and i still feel empty and alone.  I look at my own precious daughter and wonder what could she do to me that i would abandon her?  NOTHING! I have a heart! I love my child more than life itself.  WHat is wrong with me that my mother hates me so much?

I have read commentaries about Joy Luck Club that say that Linda Jong is this strong woman of character and waverly is a selfish, spoilt american brat....complete bullshit!  Linda Jong is a manipulative controlling N and poor waverly went through her whole life tryign to please the unpleaseable.


Ami

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2007, 08:27:17 AM »
WOW  Cate,
  Do I hear myself in you. One thing that I agree with you, for sure, is that a person can spend milions of dollars in therapy and get no where( sometimes worse)(IME).
 The board offers many things that therapy doesn't. There are shared experiences ,here. That is an important part of the healing that you do not get in therapy. You realize that you are not alone. That was very,very important for me b/c I had NEVER met anyone else with a M like mine---in my whole life.
There is a lot of wisdom .here. However, like any group , you have to use your own discernment as to what to accept and reject.
   I am really getting help from the book''' Healing your Aloneness"  by Chopich. It is about connecting with the poor, abandoned inner child . WE, who have N mothers. had to decimate our inner child in order to even survive with the N mother.
 Cate, Keep sharing your pain. I read the Amy Tan book a long time ago,but loved it.I remember being surprised that there was a M like mine in the Chinese culture. They are everywhere,I guess.
  i have tried all types of healing and the ONLY thing that ever truly helped me was the board. I got 'head knowledge" from therapy. However, I just "got" the concept of enmeshment yesterday and I have a Ma. in Psychology.
  IMO--- if you don't get it in the heart--- it is only "words" and will not penetrate to the heart. It virtually is worthless(IME)to change your life.
  I look forward to getting to know you and walking together on this journey out of pain and in to 'life"   
                                                              Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

cate

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2007, 01:45:04 PM »
Thanks Ami.  I love this board. It is a godsend.  Sometimes i feel just terrible after reading it though b/c the majority of people here only heal when they completely sever all ties...i don't know if i am strong enough to do that yet. There doesn't seem to be any hope of connecting with these N's in a healthy way.

Everything i do to CONNECT with my mother is just shot down.  She puts up this HUGE WALL and puts on her fake face for me to see.  All of my memories of her in the last 3 years have been bitter.  Every time something happened in my life where i thought it would melt the most gigantic iceberg, her heart has remained FROZEN...ice queen bitch...just like lion, witch and waredrobe. 

Examples:

1. When i gave birth to my last child (a girl), i took her to see my mother even though she had no contact with me at all during my pregnancy and refused to even return my call when she was born.  The first words out of my mother's mouth when she saw the baby, my sweet, sweet innocent little girl were "i hope you have a daughter as terrible as you".  She never even wanted to hold her or connect with me in anyway. My entire 2 hr visit was spent with her giving me the cold shoulder and griping about how she's sorry she ever had kids and i'm going to be "getting mine" one day...how she would never treat HER mother that way....(um, ok, complete bullshit there b/c i found out from my dad that SHE wanted to elope and run away from my grandma...something i would have never found out from her mouth!)

2. When i went to see her before i went for surgery to make the peace, apologized for everything i did to hurt her, told her i wanted to heal the past and move forward as mother and daughter....she was just like Lindo Jong "Oh, so NOW you want your mother in your life? Welllllllllll, it won't be so easy....i can forgive...but I WILL NEVER FORGET....its' going to take me a Loooooooooong time to get over this"...I just felt like screaming at her "Well, i hope you get over it soon b/c this surgery is serious and anything can happen!" Instead i just sat there like a dumb mute and went home crying.

I mean, WTF??!! If my mother ever humbled herself and came to my door to apologize and move on, i would accept her apology and forgive...but like i said, she is NOT NORMAL...she loves to take sacred, intimate details of my life and use them to her advantage.

In Joy Luck Club, Lindo Jong calls it "the art of invisible strength"...what it really means is I will pour out my heart to my mother, expecting to get sympathy or a warm hug...instead i get silence, um hmmm's, or some super sweet FAKE reply like "its ok sweetie"....and then, when i least expect it...WHAM! she brings up the heavy artilery and stabs me in the heart with my own words.

Example:

I had a miscarriage and cried to my mother b/c i had not been happy to be PG at the time.  I was so sad and wondered if i would ever get PG again. It was the worst thing i had ever had to go through...my mother told me coldly, "well, its for the best..."  MONTHS later, when i finally got PG again, and she was annoyed at something i had said  "I know you, " she sneered "you don't deserve any children b/c you don't want them!"  I just sat there stunned. How could she say something like that.

I could go on and on...cite a book full of examples.


Hopalong

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2007, 02:33:36 PM »
Oh, Cate.

Whatever it takes...I hope you will find strength here and from every possible source to detach from your mother and never again submit yourself to that humiliation and indignity. It is terrible that she is damaged, broken, and completely incapable of love, no matter how you try to inspire her or plead with her.

The only thing more terrible would be for you to waste one more hour of your precious, extraordinary opportunity for a fulfilling life in pursuit of it.

The well is dry. It's not only dry it's poisoned. Please don't look there for water any more.

With much compassion,
Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Iphi

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2007, 03:33:18 PM »
The viciousness and coldness of your mom in the circumstances you describe when you are vulnerable, humble and open to her - is really shocking and alarming cate.  You probably have never protected yourself from her and perhaps you were taught not to protect yourself from her, but I hope you will think about doing so.  You deserve to be treated well and -important- respectfully.  You are NOT a bad daughter.  If you were a bad daughter all this time I'm sure you would never have had a moment's stress about her but would have been off doing wild things and never sparing her a thought.  So clearly it's all just her manipulating you and inflicting pain.  That is so wrong. 

You have the power to put a stop to it, but I think we can only do that after we give up hope, since putting a stop to it will not concilate her (but then what will?) ((((cate))))
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant

Ami

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2007, 03:35:38 PM »
Dear Cate,
  If you need to talk about your mother- we are here. You are  facing how she 'really is--- probably for the first time. It is a shock to face the truth. You "knew 'it down deep,but now you are facing it with your conscious mind.You are coming out of denial, Cate. It is a shock and it really, really hurts.
   You ask yourself, Why can't she be different? Why can's she just get it?  It seems so easy to us--- Why doesn't she just 'get it'?
    I have tried so many times with so many words and in so many ways to get her to get it(.Down deep, I still have not given up the 'dream" that she will). Maybe, I will always have the dream that she will wake up from a bad dream and be the mother that I want. Vaknin says that in a very few rare occasions, an N can face themselves. However,it is in the category of a miracle.
   I,, have gone "no contact" and found that I could see  her more clearly and I could start to heal  when I did not have her 'in my space" poisoning me with her 'reality"
  Cate, right now, you are just facing the 'truth". You 'knew" it all along. You just pushed it down. It needs to surface. As it does and you face it, you gradually will feel better.Keep sharing all the instances that you need to ,as you go forward.     Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

cate

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2007, 06:52:27 PM »

Ending all ties, isn't the only out of this, Cate. There is having a relationship on your terms; not HERS. There is accepting that she isn't normal; stopping the expectation that she can/will change. There is knowing that maybe what you want isn't possible - with her; doesn't mean it's not out there. And then shifting the focus to YOU - and learning to care for your self. After all, your mom doesn't sound like she deserves all the attention you're giving her, any more than mine does. But, you don't have go "no contact" if you don't want to or don't need to. And you can always decide that later...


What you say resonates with me...like the old saying, if you expect NOTHING you won't be disappointed.  My father was not there for me growing up and yet i never really hated him. I felt sadness. Hopeful. But even now, we are closer than we were, but he is not the big doting grandfather. For some reason, i am able to love him for what he CAN give, not what he can't.  I used to cry (as a teenager) that i didn't have the doting father taking me to father/daughter dances...and yet, here i was sitting on his knee like a 5 yo crying to him about my mother and he just listened...furthermore, my father NEVER PUT ME DOWN...EVER!  He apologized to me for not being there for me growing up. After he did that, my respect for him blossomed.  He has earned it back in small steps over several years.


Why i can't get to that level with my mother?  She completely resents my relationship that i have with him.  Even though she kept telling me to love him b/c he was my father, i think secretly, she enjoyed the fact that i was estranged from him...in her ME vs HIM attitude.  I was with her, confided with her etc, so she WON and my father LOST.

Now i think she is jealous that he is back in my life.  "after all the stuff he did to us/you" she moans....blah blah blah...i'm not interested in what happened in 1981. But she does...constanlty telling me what a LOSER my father is, how she did everything for me and this is how I repay her...by being a disloyal, backstabbing, bitch of a daughter.  "I wasted the best years of my life on you and for what?" she screams...Rationally, my head thinks, this is the ravings of a very insecure, hurt individual.  She is so insecure in her standing with me, that she has to insult my father and me at every opportunity...which only errodes my opinion of her...I certainly don't respect her in any way shape or form anymore...her poision has gone on for too long. Better if she just kept her big mouth shut.

I suppose my expectations of her are TOO HIGH. I think, she should be there for me b/c she is my mother! She should care. She should be there for me when i am pregnant, give birth, go shopping with me, go for coffee with me, tell me what a wonderful mother and woman i've grown up to be...instead, (when she is speaking to me) it's always about HER HER HER...her busy schedule...too busy for me, too busy to care, every thing i do, every event i plan is an annoyance.  I felt guilty for even going to the hospital and having surgery b/c it was "putting her out" to have to care for my children while i was laid up in bed recovering.  She kept telling me i brought my health issues on myself.

I wish i knew how to detatch and get to the place with her that i got with my father....objective indifference and not take everything she does or does not do or wish she did to heart.  Instead i keep beating myself up, planning, scheming, what can i do? what can i say to get her to understand me and to care?

She does not...bottom line...or maybe she does in her own twisted way but not in a mother/daughter way.  SHe is just not interested in healing old wounds and repairing things with me. I am the DEVIL child now. Better for her to sever all ties and move on to child #3 since #1 & 2 are no longer of any use. 

When i no longer need a thing from my mother, that's when she will come around and want to be there...that's what the therapist told me.

changing

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Re: Lindo Jong is my mother...
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2007, 01:51:31 AM »
Hello Cate-

It is very sad to see what you have endured with your mother.  When someone truly wants you to be happy and fulfilled, you can see their good intentions even when they make mistakes. But when a person gives you notice that they do not care for you, and that they do not want you to act in your own best interest, you must take heed. You have a duty to severely limit  or sever any contact with those people who do not see you as valuable, especially since you have little ones who need you.
I love your insight in seeing your mother in a literary archetype. The wonderful thing is, that you can choose to take a new role as an autonomous being, and pursue a different path from the one your mother chose for you .  Then you will have more time and space for the people and things that resonate with your true life's purpose.

Your Wire Monkey Mother will not suddenly grow warm fur and give milk!!!

Hugs to you on your new journey,

Changing