Narcissist parents as grandparents

[ExTex]

I grew up with my narcissist father's expectations,but have more or less found my voice in my second marriage and with my kids. However, my wonderful mother died 20 years ago, and my dad's second wife is even more narcissistic than he. The two of them together - and they are always, always together, because she does not allow him a separate relationship with his kids anymore -  are pretty much insufferable. It wouldn't be so bad, given that they live out of state, except their favorite game is to pick favorites among the children and grandchildren (his and hers), deciding who's "in" and "out" based on how successfully they suck up to them, and playing manipulative games by bad-mouthing some or praising others to the sky. Some family members are rejected permanently, and my dad & step make it very obvious. My two kids as teenagers are NOT interested in sucking up to them, so they notice the rejection. Yet despite the grandparents' complaints about other family members behind their backs, they insist on being included in all holiday celebrations, so we cannot escape them. Even the long-distance phone calls are painful and awkward. I've tried to be honest with my kids about narcissism and what it means, but I dread the contact with their grandparents! They are such a huge disappointment, more as grandparents than parents, because I already gave up thinking of my dad as a parent anyway. He's more like a guy I used to know really well. But I wanted better for my kids.  Any advice?

[gratitude28]

Wow, Tex...
My parents have only my children so far... it will be interesting to see what my mother is like when her "Golden Child" propogates. My parents ADORE the game of ragging on various relatives, though. They love to talk about how stupid some are, how one will "end up in a tower shooting people," etc. So far they are OK with my kids... but I watch them VERY carefully. Actually - it is just my mother I need to watch. My dad adores them, and they love him. My mother actually made my daughter hold her pet parrot once when I wasn't paying attention - knowing it would bite her. I don't trust her at all now.
Good topic. Thank you and I also look forward to reading the advice people give you.
Your kids sound wise and you have raised them well.
Love, Beth

[isittoolate]

Whew ExT

I just had a "blow me away" from your post.

I am 68 and I realize I never thought of my parents as such. It was something I knew in my head but not otherwise, as I never felt love from them and I must have been told that parents love their children.

Now that I know about Ns (just learned 5 years ago) I avoid them--I have one N sister but no one of the rest are any sort of family, let alone in a parent, grandparent position, so I don't have any advice there.

I am trying to have a voice after all these years of not having one. I'm progressing slowly.

Is there anyway you can talk sense to---- or just ignore what has happened and and go into a No Contact mode?

Love
Izzy

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[Certain Hope]

Welcome, ExTex,

It's very difficult, I know. Similar situation here.
We have two grown daughters, each out on her own now, and although they all live in the same state...
neither one has much contact at all with my parents.

Son (11) and daughter (16) at home have no interest in reading the letters sent by their grandparents... and when we traveled to visit with family this past June, the kids made themselves scarce. There's just no connection.

As a former "fixer",  I used to always try to encourage communication and bring everybody to some common ground. Problem is, there is no such thing with my parents. Neither one of them has ever shown any interest whatsoever in who their grandchildren are as individuals... what they enjoy, their interests, dislikes, etc... very sad. I guess my children recognized that long before I did.
I'm thankful that we're separated by 1,000 miles, because no matter how much I wish it were different, I can't make it so.

I don't know, but maybe it's not so much dread that you're feeling, as sadness? I mean, you don't have to take their calls, you know.
A couple of connects with voice mail usually prohibits further calls in our case, but maybe that would only add fuel to the fire for you...?

You said that they "insist" on being included in all celebrations...
so you "cannot" escape them...

oh, but... you can. You just haven't... yet.

Knowing that you can - when you're ready - makes all the difference, I think.
Reading about boundaries and how to establish good ones would be a great step for right now, I think.

Again, welcome!

Carolyn

[Poppy Seed]

Extex!  A warm welcome to you!

I have a question or two.  Do you feel a responsibility to keep these grandparents in the lives of your children?  Are your children attached to them?  Do they get meaningful interactions at anytime?  Or is it a confusing back and forth for them?

My kids (who are younger than yours)  are somewhat attached to their N grandmother.  But, I know they sense the emotional incapabilities and they somehow know they can't get their emotional needs met through her.  It is strange to watch and sense and then decide how to manage all of it.  I struggle with how much contact to allow for my children and in what circumstances.  I don't allow her playing favorites with my kids.  I don't listen to her slights and putdowns of their behavior anymore.  Come to think of it, I don't listen to anything she says anymore!  HA!  Progress at last!

Hope you find the answers and insight you are looking for.

Poppy

[Katie]

I am a grandchild of a narcissist (my paternal grandmother), and my father is one to a lesser degree. I am 26 years old, and luckily only see my grandmother 2-3 times a year. About 2 months ago, she was here visiting, and we got into a minor fight (which she dramatized as a knock-down, drag-out, per her nature). This happened because she took "teasing" much too far, like she always does. My father stayed out of it (like usual) but my mother took weeks to forgive me, because, of course, nothing could ever be Gramma's fault (yeah right). Gramma's modus operandi is to tease you mercilessly, then withdraw like her heart is broken when God forbid you defend yourself. How do I deal?

[Ami]

Wow Katie,
  You seem to grasp the dynamics very well at such a young age. I think that your best bet would be to educate yourself about N so you could better understand the whole situation.Then, you will see ways to deal in the best way possible(not easy,my friend)                 Love    Ami


((((((((((((((Katie))))))))))))))

[Iphi]

Hiya Katie.  I have two strategies for dealing - but the hard thing is trying to remember your strategy and stay focused when the teasing gets heavy because it is so hard to keep cool under full attack - and it is attack. 

Strategy 1: plan ahead of time to minimize interaction with her and have ways to get away from her when an attack starts.  I have to plan ahead of time because I can't think of anything good on the spot or I might tip my hand and let my Ndad realize that I have nowhere else to go and nothing else to do so there is no retreat for me.  So I set up retreats ahead of time.

Strategy 2: is for when she is attacking you.  Throw it back on her by saying a variation of the below type of thing (whatever is best for you and is most natural):
- My friend's grandmother is such a lovely woman and never says such things to her granddaughter
- A loving grandmother would never say such a thing
- I'm so surprised that you would say something so inconsiderate, unlike other grandparents.

My theory is that it will shut them up to be unfavorably compared to others or told, in any way, that they are below average or, well, inferior.  I stumbled across this by accident with my Ndad and was completely surprised when it worked.

Then I'd back that statement up with a quick change of subject and/or a retreat.   My Ndad is out to make me angry so that he can have a justification for completely going ape on me.  It sucks - it's such a trap and I've fallen for it so many times.  Yuck!  Good luck in all ways.