My F is betraying me--- AGAIN

[Ami]

My F came to visit me. When he called me from the hotel,I told him not to come over if he was going to lie about my M. He  said that he would not lie.
  He understood about N's.
  Now, he is slowly going back in to denial and I am left knowing the truth and being the " bad guy".
   I am thinking of telling him not to call me.My whole life has been lies.He is a partner in the lies--not an innocent bystander.
  I value your opinion--if you care to respond                          Love  Ami

[Iphi]

This is very tough.  I have no insight to share but support you and feel for you - it is way, way tough to stand out there alone and watch the weak reeds bend. 

[Ami]

I never faced how my F betrayed me. It was always the Wicked Witch that took center stage. However,I always had a simmering anger to my F. I remember if he got me jewelry,I would always break or lose it ,but I did not let my anger come to consciousness.
  I have a stomach ache again. Yes, he was not physically abusive or even emotionally abusive. However, he would never help you after(or while) she tortured you.
  He said yesterday,"She is a good person.". I said,"She is NOT a good person . She is a curse to anyone who comes in contact with her."
  I think that I would rather have no family and just face it than have this "fake "attempt at family.What family is there,really, if you have to lie about the huge elephant ?I am so,so,so tired of the lies. All the lies so the elephant can do a dance in the living room and stick out her tongue at you
  I think that what Amber said today applies. I have to face that I have no family and go on from there.What type of F is this. What is he worth ?



 

[Iphi]

all so the elephant won't have to grow or change like a living being is supposed to....

[Bella_French]

Dear Ami,

I can totally relate, especially today. I got the predicted `you have to call your mother more often!!' phone call today, from him. I replied `I understand (that you are her puppet), but Dad i have to do whats good for me too (ie not be her puppet)''. I didn't say the words in brackets out loud, of course.

And yet the last time we spoke, only a few days ago, i explained to him why I wanted some distance from her, and he seemed to totally understand, and `see' that there were family members beyond my mother, and they have needs too.

Ami, sometimes i think I get through to my father a little, maybe not as far as you get through to your Dad though. Maybe the easiest way to deal with it is not to create expectations about them? And just accept them for who the are, and what they've chosen for their life? I seem to feel the most pain when I think about what might have been (which is too often, i fear)

I am so sorry to hear about this latest incident, Ami. I really understand what its like to want your father top be well, and to have a close relationship with him.

X Bella

[Ami]

My M was saying that we should have an intervention for my B ,who is a prescription drug addict. SHE IS THE ONE WHO NEEDS the intervention. WE should all sit around and tell her how SHE has destroyed everyones lives.THAT would be an intervention  on the actual elephant.
  I just want to face that I am alone. I was doing that at 14, the last time that my F derailed me.
  Well, maybe when I face that all I have is me,I might start to heal b/c as much as I WANT to lie( and think that I have a family that values me) what value is there if you have to lie to belong?
 


P.S Thank you Bella and Iphi. I really appreciate your responses
 
 

[teartracks]

Dear Ami,

I'm not qualified to give you counsel on resolving this issue.  My impression is that you are on the right track.  This has to be one of the most trying of the knotholes you're being pulled through.  You have momentum going and my sense is tht it's steady and sure.  Try not to force things that may not be quite ready for action just yet.   Not saying this is one of those things.  Just in general. 
tt

[sun blue]

Hi Ami:

Goodness knows, I have no solutions to this as I go through a version of it myself.  But you seem to have at least the advantage that your dad understands (from you) that your mom is NPD and that she has many problems which has caused you pain.  It's true he contributed and even added to the pain probably by not supporting you or helping you.

But what I find interesting is that he reached out to you (he called you and wanted to see you).  My co-dependent dad would never do that.  He does nothing without my Nmom.

So, my question is, what prompts his phone call?  Does he say he wants a relationship with you?  A better one?  Does he call at the behest of your mom?  Would you be able to develop any kind of relationship or closeness with him if you made a pact not to discuss your mom and to agree to disagree?  When you meet with him, does he ever apologize, acknowledge or support you?  Is there any basis of hope for a relationship with him (even though it might mean he'll never see your mom the way you do)?

I'm just wondering because like I said, my dad would NEVER acknowledge there's anything wrong with my mom and that she's anything but perfect.  But he also would never initiate contact with me on his own.  So you have at least a little bit more going for you with your dad than most.

Just a thought.

[Hopalong]

Hi, Ami...
I thought dittos to Sun...

I remember what tremendous joy and healing you took from your father's earlier visit. I would hate to see you lose the possibilities that his brave visit symbolized.

Is it possible to think about whether you are demanding of an older man, who has no desire to turn his own life upside down (what could he possibly do but divorce her?) -- is possible? I think you might be setting yourself up for eternal disappointment if you measure him by your own intense ability to live without denial now. His has been going on for so much longer, he is not young, he may just not be able to go on this journey all the way with you.

But he did take such a huge step, before, when he came to you and apologized and made so clear that he loves you dearly.

I hope there's some way, some day, for you to accept his love without asking him to sacrifice a dream he's built his life around. For him, for his own inner mysteries, there has been a reason to stay married to your mother.

I know, because when my pain over the fresh discovery that my mother was an N was acute, I had the same question. I never asked it, I knew my father would be torn in two.

I hope he can go farther with you. I am writing all this just because I feel compassion for both of you and I don't want you to lose him. One day soon, you will not need his agreement so intensely, and you really may find in time that you feel more able to accept his limits and weakness with more peace in your heart than you can now, because you're still deep in an excavation that you cannot abandon. You can't just drop your shovel and say the hell with it, and he's not limber and strong enough to leap down into the dig with you, and meet you shovelfull for shovelfull.

Another belabored metaphor, but I hope some of it might add a little help.

with love
Hops

[QB]

Hi Ami - I hope you don't mind me commenting on your very vulnerable post, someone that you don't know at all.

I think it is perfectly understandable to feel betrayed and angry when someone you love does not stand up for you in the face of another who has hurt you -- when that person actually wants you to pretend and lie so that they won't have to feel uncomfortable or vulnerable.

To suspend your own feelings and to think of whether or not your father might be going through a hard time right now and you are asking too much of him is co-dependent, IMO, and Laura is doing a great job describing what that is on her thread.  I think it is extremely healthy and necessary for you to acknowledge and process your very legitimate feelings of betrayal. 

It is a gift to your father to ask him to grow and come to understand that in order for the both of you to have a healthy relationship he must also acknowledge your feelings and actually strive to meet your needs -- that it can't just be you meeting his needs while you ignore your owns.  It would be unhealthy for you and for him to continue to allow your mother to abuse the whole family while everyone, as you've said, ignored the pink elephant in the room.

The greatest gift you can give yourself and your father is to embrace the truth and act on it, not out of punishment or a need to control, but out of love -- out of a desire to strive to build a real, healthy relationship with your father not one that is steeped in lies.

Healthy people who truly love one another in an altruistic, non-codependent way speak the truth in love, ask for their needs to be met without fear (that the other will go away, that the other will punish them, that the other will attack them, that the other will blame or shame them); they express their desires with a feeling of safety, are accepted for who they are, with all of their faults, with  both striving together to always treat the other with love and respect and when one fails the other, being open enough, humble enough to be accountable, admitting their error and fault and then  doing something about it -- it just isn't enough to say I'm sorry, I can't, IMO.

Hope this helps in some way bring you peace and clarity  in regards to what a healthy relationship between a father and daughter could be -- now I guess the question for you to decide is whether that is what you want. 


You have the right to want that.  We all do.

[Hopalong]

Hi Ami,

Such good diversity here with familiar voices and strange-familiar ones, and a lot of ways to look at things.
I have faith you'll find your way to the next step that feels honest to you and supports you best in your healing.

(And thanks for your compost heap comment to me earlier. That was a very kind and respectful way to present your question. It's ready for my suggestions too, any time.)

I thought about your invitation to probe deeper, and I think I will. I'm not sure how much here though, in light of things. But that's okay. It all comes around to helping.

hugs
Hops

[isittoolate]

hi Ami

I am sorry to hear about your father's reversal. Seems like a double/triple betrayal to me.

I know you can handle it though, the way you are progressing and understanding the dynamics of your family.

xx
Izzy

[wiltay]

Ami, I understand your disgust and disappointment with your father.  He probably won't ever be capable of supporting you against the ravages of your mother since he probably doesn't have a clue how to deal with her himself except to always give her what she wants.  That way the monster stays in her cage and he can maintain the illusion of the woman he fell in love with.  Probably the very last thing he wants to do is to give up his illusions about your M.  I am amazed by the long process of denial that I went through with each of the various N's I've known and these were not love relationships, only friendships, but I'm a very sentimental person.  The hardest thing to do is to admit that the person you once admired and liked so much is so despicable as a human being.  It really takes something out of you, taints and corrupts your view of life and other people.  It also might be that with the toxic environment he is living in with your M he is really not capable of normal behavior, if you know what I mean.  Abused people are shell-shocked.  He can't be married to an N and NOT be abused.  But I feel for you Ami.  It's very hard when someone you love lets you down.
Bill

 

[Ami]

I am crying at the love, time and care that you all put in to responding to me.. Thank you so much for being there for me. Love  Ami

[Ami]

Freakin" Bingo