New Series: RECOGNIZING AND DEALING WITH CODEPENDENCY

[reallyME]

QB:

Frm all that I read here it seems natural that a co-dependent would team up with  a Narcissist and get on like water and oil!
All these  behaviors seem to me to be non-empathetic, utitlizes a lot of lying and self-denial and doesn't seem to view the other person well at all.  I guess I'm saying that a co-dependent person would make their "object' feel just as crappy as a narcissist would.  No big or little sin, just dysfunctional and hurtful all the way around.

Ok, first of all, the info I am putting here is largely from a book I have.  Secondly, yes, a codependent would not really get along well with a narcissist...water and oil...accurate.

Neither person in this type of relationship is actually healthy.  That is the point of my sharing all this.  it is all very dysfunctional, but there is a way to learn better, healthier behaviors and ways of relating, providing a person is willing to make the effort to do the self-examination and application.

Thank you for your comments, QB

~Laura

[Ami]

Dear Laura,
  In my Inner Child book,it says that we become a codependent when we throw away  our core-(-inner child or deep feeling level-). Then. b/c we are empty inside we need something or someone(usually both) to fill it.
  I can see that I did this. I feel like a hamster on the freakin' wheel-- going round and round for approval, validation, love, acceptance when all the time,I could be giving it to myself. That is the key. How to go from A to B.
 What is the mechanism to get us from A to B? I think that it is in trusting our deep inner child level.
  That is my journey for now. I know where I want to be, However, sometimes the directions on how to get there are fuzzy---BLEH                          Love   Ami

[Certain Hope]

Hi, Laura...  How are you doin?

I'm ready for "the beginning" when you are 

Carolyn

[reallyME]

Here ya go Carolyn and others (actually I had typed this all up once but it never posted so I had to redo the entire thing. hehe)

Those of us who have done the 12 step programs, we remember the STEP 1:  Admit we are powerless over other people, our needs to be needed, our compulsions to rescue others have made our lives unmanageable.

Codeps have those certain areas of their lives, that they exhibit an extra measure of control over, so that when someone points to the areas we fall short in, we say "yes but LOOK HERE AT THIS AREA.  I know I enable my abusive spouse, but look how my children mind me and see the badge I earned today as a top Girl Scout leader?"  They have a really hard time about not letting anyone get real close emotionally to them, and they can't usually bear to see their own realities.

Codeps lose their identities by trying to be people-pleasers.  In our families of dysfunction, we learned that we had to please others to gain approval and acceptance.  We often lean to one extre or another, giving up who we are, by adopting the thoughts, feelings or actions of the other person, or we dig our heels in, insisting on our own beliefs, even when they are faulty.

Often, codeps feel so concerned about protecting their own identities, that they will argue over even small things.

Please complete the following assessment of Codep traits and we will discuss your answers next time.  Thank you so much:

1.) I often feel isolated and scared of authority figures
2.) I am an approval-seeker and lose my identity in doing this.
3.) I'm over-scared of angry people and personal criticism.
4.) I feel like a victim in relationships.
5.) I sometimes have a strong sense of needing to be responsible for others, and therefore, I neglect my own needs.
6.) I can't bear to look at my own flaws.
7.) I feel guilty for standing up for myself and I give in to others instead.
8.) I'm addicted to excitement and chaos.
9.) I mix love up with pity and I hook up with people I can pity and rescue.
10.) I have trouble feeling my emotions and expressing them.
11.) I am hard on myself.
12.) I have low self-esteem.
13.) I feel during my relationships.
14.) I tend to re-act rather than taking action.

please write the number of yes and no responses:

no ---------                  yes ----------    (mine were 7/7)

NEXT:  your answers, discussed and DEFENSE MECHANISMS


~Thank you again for joining this series and participating with us.

~Laura

[Certain Hope]

Thank you, Laura!
I am enjoying reading this as you post it... the organization of it, in successive parts. Getting alot more out of it this way instead of my usual method of voraciously trying to absorb huge amounts of reading material at one sitting.

7 out of 7 for me, too... as I was... and this one especially intrigues me:

"Often, codeps feel so concerned about protecting their own identities, that they will argue over even small things."

I can still sense the urge to carry on this behavior, on occasion, with my parents and husband. I guess they're the ones with whom I fear that old enmeshment pattern repeating itself. Even though I know that's not going to happen anymore, it's still an internal habit... but maybe kinda useful, since it allows me to identify my own likes and dislikes, even if I keep those thoughts to myself.
When we visited my parents in June and I had a strange dialogue with my mother about liking not liking something ("I do"... "well, I don't!" ... "well, I do!"... etc.)  it really struck me how childish that was (on both of our parts!!) and how it just kinda happened without any conscious thought, like an old ritual, re-enacted. I found it very disconcerting, after being away from her for so long, that I'd still revert to these old thought patterns, and I want those patterns banished.. lol.

Learning alot here! Thanks again.

Carolyn

[Ami]

Dear Laura,
  I wrote my experience last night on the -- "Equations and Affirmations" thread.
  I had a HUGE " A-HA experience with "powerlessness" ,which is the first step in the 12 steps, as you said.
  I saw it with my heart last night. I "saw" that I could not please my H. I saw that he was never pleased even though my whole life( except now b/c I gave up) was about pleasing him and my M. The THINGS that I did to please my H and he was NEVER pleased. The things that I did to please my M and she was never pleased.
  I used to "shop" as  'therapy" before I found the board. I was on e bay  all the time. It was keeping my "sanity" to focus on buying things instead of my emotions which seemed totally hopeless to change and heal.
  Now, I am not buying things,but trying to address my emotions. So, last night, when he expressed  such hatred of me,it was actually a huge blessing to me. ALL my controlling for my M and him.--- .ALL of it for --NOTHING.
 Well, I can be free,now.
  With MY M, I see that it was always my( and the rest of the families) JOB to make her happy. My low self esteem and HATING myself was simply from the fact that I totally FAILED  at this. I did everything known to man to make her happy.It was my life quest. My clothes, hair,makeup, education, marriage, personality, children ,house, likes ,dislikes --ALL- was to finally-Dear God- make her happy. Well,it all failed. I was sick and almost died. That was what happened.
  Then,I did the same thing with my H. What ,in God's name. DID he want? Just tell me and I would twist to do it. I traveled to places half way across the world and left little babies for him b/.c he wanted to travel. I spent my life's energy and life's blood to FINALLY get him to be good to me. What do I get at the end of the line? HATRED.
  What a moral of a story--HUH?
 I am seeing that codependency is a huge "lie". It does not work. It simply will  not get us where we need to go-- peace and joy -inside. Great,great topic, Laura. Thank you                    Ami

[reallyME]

Hi Ami and Carolyn

Carolyn, I have purposely tried to condense and keep these posts concise.  I do better with taking in small sections at a time with paragraph breaks in between too.  I just can't handle reading some of the looooooooooong posts on here that I'd read if there were breaks in between them.

Ami,  Thanks for your support too and for sharing your experiences.  I'm so glad you came to the board and glad you are finding ways to handle the things you struggle with.


The more responses you checked YES, the more issues of codependency that you have, including me.

As far as trying to please someone else...it just can't be done and it shows the other person's deep insecurity for expecting you to try.  It's a lose-lose situation all the way around, and you come out feeling useless, helpless, and like you were no help to the other person.  You also find yourself compromising what you believe, just to avoid "fallout" from doing things a different way than they want.  They have a right to their beliefs and actions, as long as it's not harming another person, but so do you.  It has taken me a long time to learn this, overcome the fear of speaking up and not complying, and basically just being reallyME.

 It is always best, with God's help, to keep ourselves "in check" and not try to change or "please" another human being.  Some people have decided anyway, that no matter what you do, it's not enough, good enough or it just plain doesn't please them.  I had a step-dad that I experienced this with BIG TIME. He was OCD and, no matter how much I cleaned the house, did my chores, they were not done perfect or quick enough, and there was NO PERFECT for an OCD person.  I just didn't realize it till I was an adult and heard his diagnosis.  I always internalized the blame, thinking "if only I was faster, smarter, more perfect, more observant...if only I could be just like HIM and get every speck of lint off the windowsill that the sun had left there since the last 5 minutes that he checked...then maybe he'd approve and let me go play with my friends."  It was a MISERABLE, HELPLESS way to live.

There is sometimes something to be said about looking out for #1, as long as it's not done in a way that leaves others neglected, abused or enabled.

~Stay Tuned

Laura

[reallyME]

DROP YOUR GUARD:  Defense Mechanisms

Following are some common defense mechanisms that Codependents use in relationships:

~The Perfectionist

They are DRIVEN to earn their worth through perfect performing.  Since there is nothing that is 100% perfect on this earth, they will always feel that they come up short and are inadequate.

This person's parent believed he/she was showing love to their child, but showing them where they always fell short, pointing out flaws.  They give the child a message that, no matter what they attempt, they could always have done better at it.  Unfortunatel, these adult-children, although they DO master some perfection in life, usually fail miserably at the things that really matter...relationships.

~The Martyr

These people get praise and acceptance by showing how much pain and illness they can endure and usually telling people about it.  The greater the pain is, the more accolades they merit.  The more pity they receive from others, the more attention the get.  They develop almost a "need to hurt" in order to feel any sense of self-worth.

~The People Pleaser

These people are expert "eggshell walkers."  They have learned how to avoid making others angry, but never saying the word "no," putting everyone's needs and wants and views above their own, and taking on way more than what is their responsibility to handle.  The people pleaser usually gets angry because he can't keep up with everything on his shoulders, but then turns the anger inward onto innocent others.  These people 'endure" life, rather than living it.

~The Caretaker

These people take care of other people's responsibilities.  They tend to almost create "emotional cripples" out of others and then alternatively resent them for being needy of them.

~The Stuffer

These people have learned that some emotions were forbidden in their homes, because of stupid sayings of "big boys don't cry."  Stuffers learn to turn their feelings off in part or totally.  The parents of these children, tend to banish the child to a specific spot in the house to cry, thinking they are instructing them to be strong, when what is really happening, is that they are showing their child that some emotions should be hidden or shut off.  Usually, if you ask these stuffers what they feel about something, they will respond that they don't know what you mean.

~Martha Complex

Work = approval to these folk.  They have learned to always stay busy with something, even if it's something that doesnt' really need to be done.  These people find their worth in activity and feel guilt if they aren't busy doing something.

~The Fixer

Fixers find approval and feel in control by trying to fix other people's emotions.  They will not have to face their own issues and pains if they are busy helping someone else fix theirs.  They tend to attract dependent, sick relationsips and mistake 'need" as being "love."  They feel drawn to a person, because that person needs them

Wow!  that was some info, huh?

let's talk about how we felt when reading those defenses:

powerless? relieved?  dazed?  hopeful? full of anger?  doubtful?  other?

Next:  Losing "Self"

[Poppy Seed]

Mine were 4 and 10.  OUCH!

[axa]

mine 3 and 11 - oh boy.

And the fixer fits my defense.

Axa