Author Topic: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign  (Read 3666 times)

wiltay

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Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« on: October 01, 2007, 06:44:24 AM »
I hope people don't take offense to this introduction of something that may or may not be appropriate for this forum, namely searching for legal help against an N who is determined to destroy my friendships.  Many of you are familiar with my situation--a long term involvement with an N (formerly so-called best friend) within a large social group, which has been the core of my life and my friendships for the last ten years.  If you recall, I confronted this N, "Randy" with his abusive behavior and he declared nuclear war upon me (like enraged 3 year olds are wont to do).   Several people on this board recommended I abandon the group and find a new life and in significant ways I have moved in that direction ( a good thing in itself for various reasons) but there are a few people whom I still consider to be good and dear friends and I am not going to just abandon them because of this little psychopath and his sycophants.  This group is still my connection with them and while it may mean all out war I realize I need to draw a line in the sand.  Randy has found two/three(?) gullible stooges to do his dirty work for him, two of them highly emotional people who can stir others up with the lies that he feeds them, which they have done in my absence.  It has cost me at least one friendship already and they are working on others now I know.  It seems clear that the idea is to get everyone, not just my close friends, to turn against me.  They won't succeed in that but it takes a terrible toll on me.

    I've just now threatened two of his minions with legal action--slander and defamation of character lawsuits, but I honestly don't have a clue what I'm doing.  Has anyone on this board had any experience with this type of legal action or know of a lawyer with NPD smear campaign experience I could consult for advice?  I know this is a long shot but I'm hoping for a starting point better than looking in the phone book for a lawyer who won't have a clue about NPD.  My idea, and I think it might be effective, is to confront these people with some consequences to their behavior and make them question why they are doing the dirty work for Randy, who, like a good mob boss, is a layer once-removed from the action.  I've pointed out that THEY have all the exposure and liability, not Randy and it may make them question what they are doing and whether Randy is really worth it.  Randy of course, is simply using and exploiting their emotions like N's do and when push comes to shove he will leave them high and dry, swinging alone in the wind,  and he will barely remember their names.   I should say that these people are women with secret crushes on Randy, who is paired with yet another woman, someone who is extremely nice (and very co-dependent)who will one day be investing in a great deal of psychotherapy I know, because of him.  They think he is a saint and that I'm either sick or evil.  His SO is not in the loop and not part of the group.
        I really don't want to do this.  I've never believed in lawyers and legal action. It's ugly and wears on your soul to play hardball with people you once had affection for (or anyone  for that matter) , but I don't know what else to do.  It's like wading in a radioactive toxic waste dump to be around this situation and I want it to end.  I keep thinking it's over and past and then another toxic bomb goes off in my face.  Any thoughts or ideas?  This a group with a lot of wisdom and experience and quite a find in this hard time and I really appreciate you guys.   I lurk a lot, more than my few posts would indicate.  In any event, thanks for listening.
Bill

Ami

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2007, 08:21:16 AM »
Dear Bill,
  I am sorry for all the pain that you are going through.I don't know of actual legal resources or ideas for this.Just wanted to say that I can hear your anguish and I am very sorry for the betrayal by that idiot Randy. You sound like a wonderful friend who has more integrity in his little finger than Randy does in his whole body( for 10 lifetimes). I am really sorry,Bill.     ((((((((((((((((Bill)))))))))))))))))         Love  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Sela

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2007, 10:40:37 AM »
Hi Bill,

So sorry also for all you're going through.  No fun at all.  I've experienced a similar "smear campaign" and it sure was tough.  It is tempting to take legal action eh?

Maybe you could start by writing down all of the facts, in chronological order, of who said what about whom and when, where, how?  I imagine a lawyer would want to have that info so it might come in handy and even if not, it might be a good way to examine the facts?  Possibly help you decide what to do next?

People think they can say anything and get away with it.  Some do get away with an awful lot too eh?

You said you don't really want to do this but don't know what else to do.  Could you send Randy and his crew registered letters indicating that you will be taking legal action if they don't quit this slander?

I guess you have to weigh the damage already done against the potential cost (both financially and emotionally) of taking further action.

I know one thing about others attempting to destroy friendships.  If they succeed......those weren't real friends to begin with.

Wish I had more to offer that might help.  I hope you will wade out of the toxic slop to high, dry, ground where you feel comfortable and safe.  You can do it, too, I bet!!

Something your adversities are incapable of.

Sela

Iphi

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2007, 11:43:09 AM »
The bad news is that above all else, suing somebody is very, very expensive.  You can ruin yourself in this way and still not accomplish your objective.  Businesses, that is smart businesses, only take on a suit if the benefits of winning or the penalties of losing (and by benefits and penalties I ultimately and basically mean $$$) are so great that one or the other or both will far outweigh the cost of suing.  IMO suing should always be such a case of assessing benefits and penalties (whether monetary of other) and never emotional which is likely to be ruinous without rendering justice or if not justice then at least a reasonably satisfying result.   :?

So it really isn't the solution that people think it is.  That's the bad news.

Here's a wiki entry on defamation that will give you an overview of the ins and outs, and difficulties of proving it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel

But the good news is that for the most part most people have no idea about all this.  Saying you are going to sue them is probably more effective, and ever so much cheaper, than actually trying to take it to the mat.  But really what is effective about it is making a move to stand up for yourself and show that you will not be treated in this way and that you intend to bring power to bear to make sure that the bad behavior stops. 

One suggestion I have is to go ahead and meet with a lawyer and talk it over. Whatever you have (evidence, timeline, notes), bring it.  My thought it that you can ask the lawyer to write a scary letter or two on your behalf, to show these folks that you have gone so far as to talk to a lawyer and have the lawyer write a scary letter.  Of course this will cost $$, but it can be very worth the investment and it will most importantly be you taking action to defend yourself, quite rightly. 

Btw, none of this is legal advice and none of this is intended to serve in the stead of legal advice.  It is merely my personal opinion based on my own unpaid observations.   :lol:
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 11:46:42 AM by Iphi »
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant

Certain Hope

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2007, 11:49:22 AM »
Dear Bill,

Sorry I don't have any helpful advice...  just personally, I think it would be more trouble and agony than it's worth, but that's just me.

Mostly just wanted to tell you that I'm so sorry this saga continues... I know, it really stinks.
The trouble is, there will always be slanderers and there will always be codependent folks who are willing to allow a controlling, manipulating gossip to turn their hearts against others. It's so sad... and yet, as Sela said, if others can be so easily turned against us, then they're not really good friend material to begin with, are they?

I sure hope this ends for you soon.

Carolyn

JanetLG

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2007, 12:17:57 PM »
Bill,

Like the others, I'm afraid I don't have much 'legal advice' to offer, except to say as the others have said that it can be very expensive, and stressful.

The idea of paying a lawyer to write just one 'scarey' letter may be all you need, if you want to do it at all...I did that with my Nboyfriend just before splitting with him, and the sight of the legal letterhead terrified him. It just screams 'I mean business', even if you know you wouldn't take things further.

Just a thought. :)


Janet

wiltay

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2007, 02:28:11 PM »
Thank you so much everybody.  This situation would be so much harder without your support. I didn't phrase my request very well and I apologize.  I didn't expect  legal advice from anyone who isn't a lawyer ,only if anyone knew of someone who took this route or a lawyer who has been to NPD land. I wonder if anyone has been sued for being an N?   

Quote
But the good news is that for the most part most people have no idea about all this.  Saying you are going to sue them is probably more effective, and ever so much cheaper, than actually trying to take it to the mat.  But really what is effective about it is making a move to stand up for yourself and show that you will not be treated in this way and that you intend to bring power to bear to make sure that the bad behavior stops.

One suggestion I have is to go ahead and meet with a lawyer and talk it over. Whatever you have (evidence, timeline, notes), bring it.  My thought it that you can ask the lawyer to write a scary letter or two on your behalf, to show these folks that you have gone so far as to talk to a lawyer and have the lawyer write a scary letter.  Of course this will cost $$, but it can be very worth the investment and it will most importantly be you taking action to defend yourself, quite rightly.

Iphi and Janet-- this is exactly what I was thinking.  No one wins in an actual lawsuit except the lawyers.  And even if you win you still have the hurt, maybe worse.  And you have yet to collect.

Certain Hope said:

Quote
The trouble is, there will always be slanderers and there will always be codependent folks who are willing to allow a controlling, manipulating gossip to turn their hearts against others. It's so sad... and yet, as Sela said, if others can be so easily turned against us, then they're not really good friend material to begin with, are they?

This is so true.  There is a phrase from a Grateful Dead song that I have been thinking of often lately:  "Broken heart don't feel so bad, you ain't got half of what you thought you had." You can't lose what never was. These were people I traveled with in Europe and criss-crossed the USA and my home state many times. I expected at one time to have them as warm friends for the rest of my days. They were my family in all senses. Some of us, including me, had resigned ourselves to the fact that we would probably end our days single and alone, but we would have each other.  We even talked seriously about buying into a small cottage community and all being next door neighbors.  I am so glad we didn't get that far!  Can you imagine? (Can you imagine such naivety from people in their fifties?? Or maybe it was only ME?)
    In a situation like this you learn who your real friends are pretty quickly.  You see what people are really made of. That is about the ONLY good thing about it, but it's valuable knowledge.  Thanks again everybody.  Ami, thanks for the love and Sela for the warmth and wise words. You have all strengthened me.
Bill

Ami

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2007, 03:10:35 PM »
Dear Bill,
  I hope that you don't mind if I go off in the direction that you alluded to--- about hopes and expectations.
  As I heal and get in touch with my inner child( deep feelings), I am admitting 'truth" to myself. Truth is very powerful.It gives you power in life.
  A few nights ago,I wrote in my journal ,"I am abused. I was an abused child"I saw it there in such cold words,but I accepted my 'true" history . I felt an empowerment. I always tried to live a 'fake "history. I was a loved child--pampered ,protected, watched over so she would not be hurt or taken advantage of. Somehow,in my mind,I WAS living in this fantasy. When,I saw who I REALLY was, something healed in me..
  My M called me today.I have not talked to her in 6 months. I reconciled with my F who was able to accept the truth about my M being an NPD.
  With her, I said",I am not lying for you anymore. I was an abused child by you.Then, when I and my 2 yr old were being abused by my H you said,"Don't think you're  coming here. THEN , you said that you did not know what abuse was".                                                                                                                  I felt so strong b/c I had accepted the truth. I don't need to  be this 'fantasy" person, anymore.
  I used to get all dressed up and look "together' and think ,"Maybe,I am REALLY  this fantasy person with a loving mother and a father who protects her.".
 The power of our lives is in the truth--- always --no matter how bad or ugly it is.
  Bill, you sound so special. It is easy to say------ but it is THEIR loss.                      Love  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

teartracks

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2007, 05:32:47 PM »



Hi Bill,

I'm sending you hugs.  I can only imagine how much this hurts you.  Yep, good thing you didn't do the cottage idea!  Being in the same town is hard enough isn't it?  The advice the others have given you sounds right to me.  Wishing you the best.

tt


mudpuppy

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2007, 08:53:04 PM »
Hi Bill,

 I have a little experience here.
First, slander and libel ARE defamation of character. Different terms, same meaning. Slander is spoken defamation, libel written. Generally you have a one year staute of limitations, from the time of utterance or publication. To qualify as defamation the statement must be not only untrue but must be a serious and harmful malicious characterization as fact of some action or characteristic of you. And it must be said to people other than you. Nor can it be stated as a mere personal opinion. For instance, if they say to others that you are insane, or that you have commited some crime they have commited slander. If they say that in their opinion you are a bum or a creep, it is not.
 Your problem, assuming they have slandered you, is in demonstrating what the damages are. If they have only been doing it for a short time, and their lies have not resulted in actual damages, then you have little to gain.
 Another course you might consider is intentional infliction of emotional distress. This has a lower bar in some ways, as you merely have to show that their intent is to cause you emotional suffering amd pain and are acting maliciously. If you have sought therapy because of the attacks then so much the better.
 It is usually easier in a family situation to demonstrate damages as their are usually repercussions for the person who is being lied about. When it's just friends it's a little harder to show that you have suffered any damage that a $ sign can be attached to and in many states punitive damages are tied to actual damages. IOW if there are no actual damages there can be no punititve or exemplary damages.
 Bottom line? Unless your favorite rich uncle just died and you can show some actual damages such as a lost inheritance or lost job due to their lies, you're pouring a lot of your own money down a rat hole. OTOH, having a lawyer write them a letter threatening them can work wonders and is pretty cheap. You'll seldom see anyone run as fast as flunkies do when the cost of doing their master's bidding looks like it may land them in court.

mud

wiltay

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2007, 06:09:48 PM »
Ami, thank you so much.  I find you special too.  I bonded with you from your first posts (that I read) and I can't tell you exactly why except that you seem to have an extraordinary depth.  I hear what you're saying about truth.  It's the ONLY solid rock in the universe and in my mind it is equal to God.  I have also invented a story for myself, a false front to blunt the pain and keep myself sane and that it ultimately fails to be of any use at all.  I think when I do it it is mostly to counter the lies that my poor self-esteem would have me believe about how unworthy I am.   But also there is a huge amount of pressure from other people to create a facade that won't upset them or scare them or confuse them.  But feeding that animal is also a big mistake (needing other people's approval too much).  The truth sets you free, it really does.
Bill

Ami

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2007, 06:36:47 PM »
Dear Bill,
  Those kind words mean so much to me ,today( especially) .I am trying to face so many lies. My life has been a 'sand castle" held together by lie after lie. At some point something gives---either your emotional or physical health(or both).
  I think that we are talking about having a true self vs. a "false self. I am in the process of excavating my true self..
 i am studying about codependency . You give up your connection to your deep feelings and responsibility  to care of your feelings and needs. Someone else does the same thing. Then, you get together and each one tries to take care of the other,but NOT themselves. This sounds like a plan?
  It feels so "natural" to be codependent .It feels so unnatural to take care and respect your own space.
    You are right about truth. It is the beacon to healing. Thanks again for your kind  words.  Love  Ami

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

wiltay

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2007, 06:44:54 PM »
Mudpuppy, thanks much for the info.  The law is very interesting, isn't it? I studied real estate law for about a year and I could hardly put the books down.    My confusion with the terms is why I wouldn't ever try to be my own lawyer.  I realize that proving anything in court would be impossible, especially against someone who shields himself with 'flunkies."  All I could possibly hope to net is the flunkies and they aren't worth the bother.  Basically I just want to give them notice that they are hanging out their asses for this guy and that they might want to think about that.  They are scaredy-cat sheep (is that mixing animals?) and I expect it will work and I'll get some peace and quiet.  At least I have changed the tone of the argument by shoving it back at them.  This makes me realize how much other abuse I have taken from some of these people and how I have been far nicer to them then they've deserved, even before any of this happened.  Back in those days I wanted everyone to love me.  To quote Ami, BLEH.   TT, thank you, you're a sweety.

Bill

Sela

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Re: Looking for legal advice for smear campaign
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2007, 07:03:36 PM »
Hiya Bill,

This quote gives you, me, Mud, anyone who has had similar experience something to emulate:



"I wrote the story myself.  It's all about a girl who lost her reputation but never missed it."

--Mae West, actress, dancer, writer, producer and director.



 :D Sela