The saga of my life, continued from yesterday

[tayana]

I felt really good this morning, but now I'm feeling rather like hiding in a corner.  I'm talking to my T tonight, so maybe that will help.

I don't know that it's addictive, just that I want to have approval, and since I was never allowed to do the sort of things where I could make friends.  My family was all I had.  I'm holding my breath that she doesn't call tonight.  I'm sure it'll be nasty.  I hope she's waiting for me to make the first move, but I'm not ready for that yet.

[tayana]

Today is day 5 of no contact . . .

I mentioned something to a co-worker who said I was being petty and mean, but I don't think my co-worker understands the long-term effects of emotional and verbal abuse and persistent emotional blackmail.  I don't really think I"m being petty and mean.  My T was very supportive of my decision.

I just like feeling halfway good again, not constantly depressed and ready to hide at any moment.

[Ami]

Dear Tayana,
  "Regular" people have NO  earthly idea how HORRIBLE it is to deal with an N mother. I am careful who I tell things to b/c people  simply cannot understand. Who could understand what a nuclear blast was like unless you experienced it--- BLEH?                                             Ami

[lighter]

::paying Tay::

You won the bet... she phoned yesterday, like you said she would.

The withdrawls and sadness are part of having turmoil in your life... and feeling theres nothing to replace it.  No escape.  Just the turmoil is enough to upset us, lets face it. 

You've already started replacing it though, and that lets in more hope and sunshine.

As you say.... you didn't have a chance to build up outside social circles.... it'll take a while.

With her negativity and demands, jerking you around emotionally, gone.... you'll have more energy and time to cultivate more activities and outside friends....new family. 

[tayana]

Lighter, want to hear something funny?  My mom grew up with her grandmother, and I've heard her complain numerous times about taking care of her grandmother when she got older.  She would go over and take her food, or visit, and she wouldn't much more than get home until the woman call again wanting something else, and she'd rush back to do that.

I think it's really strange that she's turned into that woman, when she complained so much about the way she was treated.  She expects me to do that now, run to the phone when she calls, rush out to visit, wait on her and take care of her.  No conversation with her is complete without a detailed analysis of her health issues.  Then she goes on about how she's not going to be around much longer.  I won't say that I want her to die, but I'll be so relieved when it does happen.

Ami, I know "regular" people have no idea.  My co-worker's father is a little psycho, so I thought he might understand.  Apparently I was wrong.  I haven't told him what really goes on, or how abusive it really is.

[lighter]

That's the thing about being stoic..... when you finally talk, people see it coming out of no where bc we haven't been chattin up all our problems.  Wouldn't know what to say about them anyway.... so confusing.

I think  you could talk about your mother with this guy..... since he's shared with you.

Maybe he'll understand bc he has the psycho father thing, going on?

I don't like that he judged you.... you haven't even shared the trouble you've had.

 It's OK to share..... though it's worrisome to think about being treated like a leaper over this type of thing in your life. 

I guess I think it's more important to speak your truth than to live covering up things.

It's interesting when people don't pull away and run for cover, lol.....

::whispering::  though sometimes they do

[Ami]

DearTay,
  Al little psycho and N are two different things. N is in a class by itself made worse by no one else seeing the truth. My Aunt is shocked at what I tell her. She had NO idea that her sister was like that
  I want to ask you s/thing,Tay.
  I can see that YOUR M is close to totally hopeless to change. However,I keep thinking that MINE will b/c I want it so badly.
  Do you see mine as hopeless?                          Thanks    Ami

[tayana]

Am, I don't think my friend's father is an N.  I think he was just a jerk.  Big difference there.  I'm not sure I can even describe the crazymaking tactics my mom can put everyone through, and everyone in my family knows it.  My brother even told my dad once that he should have divorced her. 

Ami, I don't think people change unless THEY want to change.  My mom isn't going to change because she doesn't think there's anything wrong with her.  She talks about her depression all the time, and maybe she is depressed.  There's treatment for depression though, and it involves going to someone who treats it, not sitting at home in a chair, covered up with a blanket and making up schemes and fantasies.  I'm not sure my mom even knows what is real and what is made up anymore.

What I've read about your M, I don't think she's going to change.  We want them to change.  We want to have good, healthy relationships with these people, but it's not going to happen.  They just aren't capable of healthy relationships because they don't think there's anything unhealthy about themselves.  But if they won't change for themselves, they aren't going to change for us.

I was reading in my book today that if you pity your parents you've been abused by them.  I pity my parents, both of them.  I think it's sad, the way they live, or choose not to live.  I wish I could say something different, but I think the only thing we can do is either develop a relationship with them as they are or else cut them out of our lives completely.

[changing]

Hi Tayana-

You are a loving person who has a natural need to love and be loved by family. You have shown your mother the best compliment anyone could have by being such a fantastic mom, though she may be blind to this. Perhaps your FOO may not be the place to love and be loved, but you are doing a terrific job of fashioning a new place of love, and more loving people will enter your circle little by little- your courage is creating a new cycle and a new way of family for your son, instead of you "turning out just like mom". I am very proud of you.

Love,

Changing

[Hopalong]

Me too!
Ditto!
What she said!

Yay, Tayana!

Leaps and bounds, dear.
Awed.

love
Hops

[axa]

Something I am clear about is that most "normal" people do not get the Nabuse.  You need to experience it to really know it.  Yesterday in class the prof was talking about psychological abuse and how difficult it is for people to understand the effect of it unless you have experienced it.  My class mate, who was married to an N - confirmed NPD turned to me and said one word "gaslighting"  We talked about it for a little while after class but she agreed that N games/psychological abuse is beyond the understanding of most people.

I have found being on this board is one of the few places in my life where there is real knowing and understanding about the psychological effects of living with an N and the aftermath of the experience.  I don't share too much with people about N because I know they just don't get it. 

Take care T, you are doing very very well,

axa

[Ami]

Thanks Tayana,
  Whenever I want to give up and go in to "self pity", I always think of you,on the board, who understand.
  I have been in many support groups and people would pity me-- even really bad alcoholics b/c they never heard of a M like mine.
   That was depressing. N is a separate  category made worse by the way that they hide it from others.
  So, the only people who ever understood were you ,on the board.You give me the courage to go on.
   I gave up b/c I was so alone. I am not alone ,anymore. You understand and you are going forward.It is the best encouragement that I could ever get.                           Love    Ami

[tayana]

You are a loving person who has a natural need to love and be loved by family. You have shown your mother the best compliment anyone could have by being such a fantastic mom, though she may be blind to this. Perhaps your FOO may not be the place to love and be loved, but you are doing a terrific job of fashioning a new place of love, and more loving people will enter your circle little by little- your courage is creating a new cycle and a new way of family for your son, instead of you "turning out just like mom". I am very proud of you.

Thanks Changing.  I'm trying very hard not to be like mom.  I don't want to be.  I've accepted that my mom will never be who I want her to be.  I've given up trying with her.

Thanks Hops.

Axa, no one really believes me when I tell them.  They think I'm overreacting, but they don't understand.  They don't understand how much disapproval you can hear in non-verbal language, or tone of voice, or the flick of an eyebrow.  They don't know how scary it is.  At least here people understand.

Ami,  I'm glad that I've helped you, if just a little bit. 

Today is day 6 of no contact.  It's really a strain now.

[Iphi]

Woohoo 6 days - incredible!  This must be the longest stretch ever, yes?  You are breaking new ground and it's hard work.  When I decided not to contact my dad, which was a year before I knew the N-connection, every day was so hard and it weighed so heavily on my consciousness.  Also I went back and forth between feeling like he was punishing me (cold shoulder freeze out) and feeling like he never even noticed it (so totally possible).  Eventually I realized that I didn't want to talk to him so what is that pressure that we feel that we should talk to them, call them, touch base, care take, check in, worry... or else???  I think you are ready for the "or else" now or soon enough.  What's the "or else" all about after all those years of threats, eh?  Or else they will disown us?  We should be so lucky.   

Seriously tay I think you are doing great work and there is no question in my mind and in my experience that it is hard hard hard.  But you know what?  At least it is something new and not the same old, same old.  You know?  For me the tedium/repetition of it all was really the straw that broke the camel's back, I think.  There was a blow out that was the turning point seemingly, but there was always a dramatic scene about something or other (completely, completely, completely blown out of proportion and turned into a referendum on my badness - as Ami says - bleah).  Ick.

[tayana]

Hey Iphi,

Yes, this is the longest I"ve ever gone without talking to my parents.  It is very hard work, because there's a part of me that really wants to talk to them, but I know the first thing out of my mom's mouth will be, "Well, I didn't think you wanted to talk to me."  Or "Did you finally decide to call?  That phone works two ways."  Or "I thought maybe you'd died."  I don't want to listen to that.

This last blowup came after a few weeks of fairly good relations, and it's over something so trivial, that there should have been no discussion at all.  I wish they would disown me.  It would be so much easier.

I know what you mean about the tedium.  It's so predictable.  I can just hear all the objections to us getting the rat (hamster), but it's been good for M.  He adores it.  I just hope he doesn't kill it with all of his love.