Author Topic: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you  (Read 11395 times)

Ami

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2007, 12:23:09 PM »
Dear Poppy,
  I think that if you just keep expressing yourself( as fearlessly as possible) you will become clearer inside.
  It is scary,sometimes,but just saying things "out loud" can begin the healing process.
   I am waiting to hear.                                                    Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

gratitude28

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2007, 12:26:52 PM »
I agree, Ami. And when I am really confused, usually I can lay out my problem here and many are able to help me clarify and see a solution. This place has been so wonderful for me. Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees - to use a cheesy cliche!!!!
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Ami

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2007, 12:30:30 PM »
Cheesy but true,Beth.
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Poppy Seed

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2007, 12:37:05 PM »
I know I am in the forest cuz I keep bumpin' into the trees!!!   Bump!!  :shock:

gratitude28

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2007, 01:04:55 PM »
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm pretty bruised too!!!!
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

tayana

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2007, 01:50:28 PM »
Quote
If you can accept that you will never be liked, loved or respected by your N, you can begin your recovery. As long as you have any hope of the N in your life having one of these feelings toward you, you cannot be doing what will ultimately take you out of the poisonous relationship.
Once I accepted this truth, I was able to set the boundaries I needed. I can deal with NM on the level that I need to have a relationship with my dad and have my kids have grandparents in their lives. But I know her real thoughts. And I know anything she says that appears caring is a copy of what she heard from others - on Dr. Phil or Oprah, or read in a magazine.
Do you still hold out hope? If so, you need to think about why and how it is affecting you.

I think many of us have ideals we want for relationships with our N's.  We want them to work.  We want them to work so badly.  We want to have the mother or father we've always dreamed of having and never gotten, and we think that if we give up ourselves that maybe that will be enough, maybe if we give just a little more, we'll get what we want. 

Unfortunately, our N's just aren't capable of seeing the sacrifice we've made for them.  The more we give, the more they want to take.  The more we give, the more they see it as their right to have. 

I don't know that I'm quite there, but I think I'm getting close.  I'm getting close to being able to say, I know you aren't going to love me like I want to be loved, so why are we playing this game.  I was a huge disappointment to my mom, and she's made sure I know how much I've hurt/disappointed/embarrassed/ruined her.  There's a very selfish part of me that will be very relieved and glad when she's gone.  It causes me alot of guilt.  I've been thinking about boundaries a lot, about how much contact I want to have with her.  I know at some point I'll have to have some contact with her, but I don't know how much.  I'd rather it be as little as possible. 

She was telling my brother last night that she didn't think she would see M until Christmas.  I don't think that's true, but I could certainly live with that.

Poppy, what I think we want from other people is validation.  We want to know that people we care about agree with and support our decisions.  It's not so much that we want to believe what they say, as much as we want validation for those things we already believe.  So when we say, I am a good writer, we want someone to validate that, agree with us.  It gives us a little boost of self esteem.

I was reading a book about self esteem last night, or looking through it rather, and one of things I read I really thought about.  It said self esteem is about doing what feels right.  One of the example they gave was a man who was always getting praised for his good work, even though he was doing just enough to get by.  Only he did better work than most people, but he didn't feel right about being praised for his work because he was just getting by.  What he was really passionate about was art, and he eventually left his job and opened an art supply store and focused on his artwork.

I could really relate to that story, especially the doing enough to get by part.  I dislike my current job because I'm bored, and nothing I say to my boss changes that.  He gives me more work, but nothing that really engages me.  Instead I get things he doesn't want to do and no one else wants.  So I spend a lot of time just getting by.    It doesn't feel right.  In fact I feel pretty guilty about spending days doing three hours of work over the course of a day because that's all I have to do.  I'd really like to go back to school to get a master's in psychology so I could do the counseling I wanted to do when I was younger.  I can't support myself on my writing yet, but maybe someday.    That's what would feel right.  That's what I'm passionate about doing.  I like helping other people and writing.

I'm not quite sure where I was going with that, other than I think what we're looking for is validation, not so much as approval.  We want our friends and family to tell us, You are a good mother.  You are good at your job.  Sorry that I got a bit sidetracked there.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Ami

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2007, 03:12:59 PM »
Dear Tayana,
  You sound the best that I have ever heard you in the above post. Your mind is clearing as you have NC.
                                                                                      Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

tayana

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2007, 03:14:06 PM »
Thanks Ami!  I feel pretty good today.  If I start feeling this good all the time I might not need to go to the doctor.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Ami

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2007, 03:24:44 PM »
YEAAAAAAH.
  I am really happy for you.It is about slow steady progress, which you are doing                              Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

gratitude28

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2007, 03:47:47 PM »
Tay,
You do sound very focused. I have a question for you - how long has it been since you started to realize that your M was an N and started working on this and learning about it?
Your post shows great insight!!!!!
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

alone48

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2007, 04:19:40 PM »
This post came at such a poignant moment, as I was just realizing that every thing the ex N said, I tried to make it something else to affirm his feelings for me. HE ISN'T CAPABLE OF THOSE FEELINGS. He knows how to twist those words and make it seem to be what you want, but he can't feel them. This is a new revelation to me, so I have to keep reminding myself over and over, he is not capable of the normal emotions most of us have.

Thanks again for pointing out the obvious, that most others can see. 

Ami

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2007, 04:28:34 PM »
Dear Alone,
  What I think that you are saying is that there are two types of knowings. There is knowing with your heart and with your head.
  You know with your head about N. However, the HARD part  is seeing and knowing with your heart. It is a process and takes  time and pain to crack the hard shell of denial. It really hurts.I am sorry, Alone.                 Love   Ami



((((((((((((((((((((((((Alone))))))))))))))))0000000
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

tayana

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2007, 04:42:51 PM »
I first realized that my family wasn't normal when I was in college, and my friends' parents treated them very differently than mine.  My mother basically stalked me in college, especially once I had a car and had some autonomy.  I didn't really call her behavior abuse then though, although some of my friends thought it was bizarre, and my one roommate told her off once.  She called me back and yelled at me for my roommate's actions.  I can't remember what was going on with my roommate, but she was in the middle of some sort of crisis, and was talking to family and friends, and my mother demanded to talk to me about nothing.  She was very rude to my roommate.

I still didn't really call it abuse, even though the counselor I started seeing my final year of school did.  I'd started seeing him for depression.  I was considering suicide.  I'd stopped eating.  My parents weren't helping me, and wouldn't listen to me.  I felt like I'd lost connection with my friends.  Seeing the counselor was the first time, I said, I can't do anything right.  He was the first person who ever said that my parents' expectations were unreasonable.  That's when I started thinking something wasn't quite right.

I didn't really know about NPD, and I'm not really sure what I was searching for that I found out about it until a few years later.  I'd taken M on vacation with my friend in Ohio.  My mother went into a rage over the whole thing.  I wanted to get away from her then, and I was trying to find a place, even though I was deep in debt, I could have just squeaked by as long as I lived close to work.  By that time, I had doen some reading about abuse, and my friend in Ohio had just gotten out of an abusive relationship, so reading the things she was sending me, I started putting the pieces together and realized that my mother was abusive.  She wasn't really abusive to M when he was small, except for some unreasonable expectations for his age, but she was very abusive to me.

I found out about NPD and Borderline Personality Disorder about the time I tried to get a home loan and was denied.  I'm not quite sure if my mom is a full blown N or if she has BPD and some N traits.  I guess that was about three years ago, about the time I found this site.  I started reading, and I finally found something that sounded like my family.  I'd never considered the things that my mom did or said to me abuse because I hadn't been physically or sexually abused.  The more I read about NPD and BPD the more it sounded like my mom, and the more I started planning to get away.  She started to get more and more abusive to my son, and that was the final straw.  The day he told me she pulled his hair and screamed at him when he didn't do his work right, that was the day I was determined to get him away from even if I ended up on food stamps and welfare.

When I first got pregnant, I turned down all of the free things the state could have given me.  I should have gone ahead and used the WIC program.  They would have helped me get out on my own, find a better job, given me parenting classes, etc, but my mom talked me out of that.  She told me I didn't need that, even though when M was first born, I barely made enough money to pay for my bills, let alone childcare.  I really let my mom intrude too much when M was a baby, but I didn't know what to do with a baby.  I'd never been around children.  I didn't think I liked kids, and I'd never wanted children.  I hated the way my mom talked to M as he got older.  She treated him just as bad as I'd been treated, except I don't really remember being 8,9, 10, etc.  I don't really remember much until I was a teenager.  So I don't know if my mom did the same things or if she really is worse with M.

So, I've read about NPD off and on for about the last three or four years.  For a little while, there was a sort of denial period where I didn't think this could possibly be right, but eventually I had to accept that my mom just really didn't care.  She'd complain because I took M to lunch and she wasn't invited, so I'd invite her and she'd say, "Well I don't know what your dad wants to do."  I tried to include her in things.  I made an enormous mistake when I tried to homeschool M.  My mom took over, inserted herself in my role as parent and started working her tricks on M.  I think that's when I started to see how little she really cared and how much she only loved as long as I did what she liked.  She'd make my lunch, and she wouldn't ask what I wanted, just fix me something.  I'd inevitably go buy lunch someplace because I couldn't stomach what she made, or I'd go to lunch with a friend.  She would be incensed if she found out because I was wasting her money.  It was things like that that really drove home what was going on.  When I was injured and homebound, I really suffered because I couldn't do anything to help myself.  I was immobile, and she had to take care of me.  I hated that, and her abuse actually got worse.  So did my depression, to the point where I was thinking the world would be much better off without me.  I finally got out of that way of thinking, but the depression didn't really get better.  I mistakenly thought that leaving my extremely stressful job would help, but leaving my even more stressful home life is what has actually helped.

I used to say I couldn't handle the situation at home/work/ and with Michael in school if there was a crisis in all three.  At least one had to be stable.  If all three were in turmoil, I think I would have had an emotional breakdown.  Usually I could get one relatively stable, but the other two would be causing great stress.  Now, I almost have two stable, for the first time in my life.  
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

gratitude28

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2007, 06:46:51 PM »
Alone,
I had a long phase where I could not seem to erase the maternal feelings that came along with the package idea of Mother. I assigned her feelings that were never there. I see now that my dad also assigns her feelings, and I think that may be what I copied. He tries to believe she has feelings, but in his heart, I think he knows something is wrong with her... It took me many moths to see her without any shred of emotion toward me.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Ami

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Re: Your N will NEVER like/love/respect you
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2007, 06:53:18 PM »
Dear Tayana,
   I think that you are coming out of denial  about 'abuse". All these "small "instances of coming out of denial--little by little --is the way that we get free.
 I can see that you are really facing the truths of your life as your head clears from NC.
You are really making great progress. It may not feel like it all the time---but I can see it                   Love  Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung