Delusions? Unbelievable Story

[tayana]

I had to post this in a separate thread just because I'm still not sure I believe it.  I'm stunned.  Although it did weaken my resolve to talk to my mother later this week.

I talked to my brother tonight, and he said that my dad finally asked about me today.  I hadn't talked to my brother for a couple of days.  So I wanted to know what my dad had asked about.  That was all normal stuff, just how I was doing and that sort of thing.  Then my brother related this story to me.

My mother has never liked for my dad and I to talk.  Never.  Not when I was young, and most certainly not now.  I don't know what she's afraid we'll talk about, but she doesn't like for me to talk to him.  Of course, she doesn't like for me to talk to anyone else either, not friends, not my brother, not even my boss, so I wasn't totally surprised at this story.  My dad and I always went to a local flea market on Sunday mornings together.  It was sort of our thing.  I actually really miss doing it, and I'd like to go.  Going, however, means that I'm expected to go visit my mom, and I don't want to do that.  My dad has still been going, although not as often.

So he went to the flea market last week, and when he got home my mom accused him of meeting me there and talking to me without telling her.  Now, I was nowhere near there last week.  I was hanging curtains and doing some shopping.  When my dad told her I wasn't there, she went into a rage and accused him of lying.  She stopped speaking to him for a week, wouldn't sleep in the bed with him, and still believes that I met him up there and he's lying about it.

In other words, she totally fabricated a scenario, convinced herself that it was true, and then blames my dad for lying to her about it.  I'm not totally stunned, but I'm still reeling a bit.  I decided that I don't need to talk to her later this week.  If she believes my dad talked to me when I was even at the flea market, then she'll accuse me of something similar.  I do not need that.  I'm supposed to be relieving my anxiety and learning to relax, not adding to it. 

Anyone else have a delusional N?

[reallyME]

Wow Tay and Bean...this made me want to get right back into writing my book again on Control Artisans.  Thanks!

[lighter]

Once I was playing tennis with my sister's ex husband.  They were married at the time.  It was a public court.... about 98 degrees in the shade and sevaral miles away from their home.

Anyway.... we were talking and she wasn't at all happy about it.

She left us stranded, without water.... we had to knock on some kind stranger's door and beg for water. 

After we were no longer seriously parched...... we had to go back to call a cab. 


She was showing us her displeasure..... letting us know how things would go if we didn't stop talking to each other.

No apology..... she felt quite smug and crafty abuot what she'd done. 

[Hopalong]

That is so sad, Tay.
It's tragic for you and for your father.
I'm really sorry.

One of the greatest angers I had against my mother was her lifelong efforts to prevent me from enjoying an independent relationship with my father. I finally defied that decree, but I was grown. I missed out on a lot from her efforts, though I do have sweet memories. Little things, like a weekly trip to the PO with my Dad when we'd buy fireball candies from a blind seller and make faces at each other in the car on the way home. And when I was little and scared at night, it was my Dad who'd come to comfort me. I used to tell friends, my Dad was my mom.

On the other hand, apart from her jealousy and controlling, I realized in recent years that some of it could have been a primitive unconscious desire to protect me. Her father had sexually abused his daughters, and one day it hit me that on an unconscious level (my Dad would never have dreamed of such a thing)...my mother had an innate need to not leave a daughter alone with a father. I don't know if it's really true, but it allowed me to feel some love for her again.

Your mother is out of her mind. I am so sorry.

Hops

[Ami]

Dear Tayana,
  What I thought when I read it was that it was "good" that it happened now,in a way.You have been feeling' guilty" for NC.You have been wondering what you should do.
  I think that this situation will help make your decision easier for you.
   Your M might have shown her true colors more b/c you are asserting your independence.(NC for 8 days) She is trying to pull you back even more strongly so she is letting her guard down a little( showing her true colors).
As hard and heartbreaking as it is to see just how bad your M is,I think that it could be a blessing in disguise. Also, it will help make your decision about how much contact M has.
   That was my thought as I read it.You are doing so well, Tayana. I am very inspired by you .Love  Ami

[Leah]

(( Tayana ))

Truly very sad for you and your dear Father.

My heart genuinely reaches out to you.

This is not unbelieveable, but rather, quite normal as far as my lifelong experience with my Nmother is concerned.

My Nmother is very scary.

Thankfully, I no longer fear her, and her delusional (and also clever cunning) actions.

Love

Leah

[lighter]

Tay.... it's too bad you weren't at the antique fair with your father.

Sounds like a great idea to me..... I'm sure that's one reason your Mother went off on it... it makes so much sense.

I wonder how your father's holding up to her abuse, at this point.

I wonder if it occurs to him that it's unfair, nutsey and innapropriate..... or if he's just waiting for it to subside, so he can go back to 'normal.'

I wonder if he'll call you and ask if you want to go to the antique market... since he's already being punished for it........  

ask him to bring your winter coats, if he does.

[tayana]

Lighter, I think my dad just puts his head down and endures.  He won't contact me, or ask me to go to the flea market.  He's afraid to contact me.  And I can understand that.  I feel guilty for being angry with him now, because that crazy woman tries to keep me away from him.  It's not right.

Leah, thanks.  I'm glad I'm not the only one.  This isn't the first time she's fabricated something, just the first time it's been so blatantly a lie.

Ami, you are exactly right.  I was building up my courage to talk to her, and then I heard that I was just so shocked and stunned.  It strengthened my resolve to continue NC.  I know M is going to want to see her, eventually, but I just can't.  At some point I'll have to talk to her, but not right now.  Maybe once I see if I can get my panic attacks, anxiety and everything else under control, then I'll contact her.

Hops, my mother has hinted, though never really admitted that she was sexually abused.  I don't know for sure.  I know she was physically abused, and I can feel sympathy for that.  She's often told me that "I don't know how good I have it because no one beat or raped me."  You know, I almost wish someone had.  At least then there would some physical thing I could point to and say, you hurt me.  Instead she just crushed my spirit.  I think its worse.  She has these distorted beliefs about sex and love in general, and that's what makes me wonder about sexual abuse.  She just makes comments, and her obsession with child molesters in general.  I don't know.  It still doesn't give her a reason to treat people the way she does.  It doesn't give her a reason to fabricate stories and punish people for things that never happened.  At some point, she needs to get help.  Like I told my brother last night (whose also been in therapy), why are we the ones who go see the mental health professionals.  I don't think we're the ones who need it.

Lighter, oh, your sister sounds positively  . . . the word I want to use isn't very kind, so I won't.  I understand about acting like she'd done something clever though.  My mother gets this smirk, and her head kind of wobbles a little and she looks so damned smug.  The way she talks about fooling people and the schemes she comes up with, is just sickening.

Bean, normal people think I'm being cruel because I'm not speaking to her.  They think I'm the one being petty.  That I'm punishing my mother.  They don't see things like this.  It's awful.

[gratitude28]

Tayana,
I think Ami had a great point - this is a sign that you are doing the right thing. I think she is lashing out because she knows she doesn't hold the same control over you.
Yes, my M is delusional as well. Once when I was about twelve, she let me eat a lime from her drink. I had a bad reaction and my face and neck had these horrible brown marks on it. I was so emabarrassed - to go anywhere. I was disfigured, really. So, one day my mother says to my dad, "Do you think it's a hickey?" He was FURIOUS with her. I was 12, lived in the middle of nowhere and had no way to be with any boy or anyone. She did the same thing other times - she thought she saw me smoking once (even though she did - 2 packs a day or so) and screamed at me that she knew what I was doing when I got home from school. I was clueless. She told me she didn't care if I slept with every man in town (I was 13 or so and so much a virgin). She would say people saw me at a bar when she knew where I was. I could go on and on. Crazy, crazy things.
You really sound good, Tay. I know you don't feel it yet, but I can hear so much strength in your postings here.
Love, Beth

[sunblue]

Tayana:

What struck me about your situation was not only how selfish and narcissistic your mother's behavior was, but your dad's reaction to it all.  Maybe it's just me and realizing the depth of the damage caused by Nfamily members.  But I can't help but wonder in amazement why these non-N dads never, ever stand up to this terrible behavior.    It angers me that they do not care enough about their children to want a relationship with their kids, even if it means that relationship has to be separate from the Nmoms and Nwives.

Why it is these non-N dads are so willing to sacrifice lifelong relationships with their childre or friends or anyone else just to continue to enable the damaging behavior of these Ns?  I don't get it.  At some point, they have to be blamed just as much as the Nparent or spouse who is causing all this hurt. 

Why do relationships with their kids mean so little to these non-N parents that they willingly go along with not seeing them or talking to them?  I really, really don't get that. 

Yes, your mother's behavior is typically narcissistic and damaging.  But in my opinion, your dad's behavior is equally damaging because he doesn't stand up for himself or you or make efforts to maintain a dad-daughter relationship.  I know because my situation is exactly the same.    I suppose in my mind I look at the Nperson as the "sick"one and the non-N as the one who should know better, who can distinguish between right and wrong.

[tayana]

Beth, my mom has always been delusional to a degree, though not to this point. I remember when I was about 9 or so, and I don't have many clear memories of being a child, I was outside playing with my baton.  It wasn't an expensive thing.  I think it came from a garage sale in fact.  The rubber ends had a tendency to fall off when it was twirled.  I was playing by this huge bush in our yard, and threw the baton up, and one of the ends landed in the bush.  I couldn't find it.  When my mother found out I'd lost the end, she accused me of pulling it off and throwing it away.  I got a spanking and was grounded for deliberately destroying my baton.  The truth was, the thing had just fallen apart, and I hadn't done anything maliciously.

And my mother did similar things about seeing men.  Anytime I wasn't home, then I was out running around with some man.  If only she knew right . . . I wanted to go to the gay bar with my roommate in college, but I never got up the guts to do it.

I do feel stronger, and I can see how ridiculous all of this is.  Like my brother said last night, when you're a teen and you're afraid to bring someone home, it's somewhat understandable, but when you're in your twenties and you're still afraid to bring someone home, that's pretty ridiculous.  The way she's tried to control my life is ridiculous.

Sun, I don't understand it.  My father would bend over backwards for my mom, even with all of the stuff she's pulled now.  My brother told him that he's only hearing one side of the story, and that he needed to think about that. He told my dad that my mother has called as many as ten times in a day for silly stuff.  He told him that she calls at work.  She's actually called at work before and gotten mad when I'm not at my desk. 

I wish my dad would defy her, and have a relationship with me.  I'd really like that.  He won't though, he never has. 

[Ami]

Dear Beth Sun and Tayana,
  I feel like I am with a group of girls and we are sitting and drinking coffee.Beth and Tayana, when I heard about what your M did with "men" and "sexual" things, there must be s/thing about the N mother and these things. My M used to "gross me out". She still does..
 Of all the disgusting things about her, her inappropriate sexual comments were the worst.I know with my kids, kids do not want "too much information" ..It is such a violation. My M would smirk as she said things to me that she knew would upset me.Would yours?
  I think that I am getting a gap( as my cop b/f would say). I am seeing the demarcation between her and me a little better.I am seeing that I could have been anyone at all and I would have been treated the same. Somehow,I had a slight shift.I think that forcing myself to nurture myself is helping.I am seeing that her craziness is "over on her side".
  It is only a slight shift ,but any shift is big when I was as enmeshed as I have been with her(in my head)
 It helps to hear that other people went through the same things with their mother. Mine used to laugh at me for wanting to be a virgin So, I guess that you can't win -either way------ gay,promiscuous  or virgin-- --bleh                                           Ami
 

[gratitude28]

I am seeing that I could have been anyone at all and I would have been treated the same.

This is an excellent point, Ami. Thank you.

[sunblue]

Ami:

I couldn't help but smile a little when I read your account regarding your mom and "sexual" conversation.  My Nmom couldn't be more opposite.  She never, ever, not even once spoke about anything remotely sexual or even relationship-related with me.  She never once talking about boys or men or sex or even the "changes" an adolescent girl experiences.  I read somewhere that a typical trait of NPDs is their lack of interest in intimacy or sometimes even sex.  It doesn't mean they don't have sex, but they don't enjoy that kind of intimacy.  Of course, everyone is different but this description fits my mom to a T.  I never saw her demonstrate any sign of affection to my dad.  She kicked him out of the bedroom long ago claiming he snored and it disturbed her sleep.  I'm sure that long before that, she stopped having a sexual relationshp with him.  It was probably another way she could punish him.  But also, it's obvious she has no need for that.  

So, she never discussed with me anything about men or relationships or marriage or children or anything.  Perhaps that's one reason I never thought I was capable of having a relationship or that anyone would want a relationship with me.  Perhaps that's why I'm alone today.  To me, it's both neglectful and unnatural to never have a discussion about any of these things with your children.  But if you believe all the latest information about NPD, it makes sense.  NPDs see their children only as extensions of themsleves.  So, if they don't value intimacy or relationships or sex, they insist the same is true of their children.  In my mind, it is truly neglectful.  Talking about these things to children as they are growing up should be part of their development, part of their self-esteem building.  

I think attitudes about these matters among Ns go in extremes.  Either it's a major focus or no focus at all.  I do think, though, that even those Ns who focus on sex and relationshps do so for their own selfish reasons.  It's what they can get out of their partners, ensuring they will continue to get that N supply, or out of a need to control, that they engage in these relationships.  It's not because they feel love for the person or want to have a caring, giving relationship where sex is an expression of that.  

[alone48]

My ex N would fabricate stories, to the point that I thought I was crazy and maybe hadn't seen things the right way. They are so good at fabricating.