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N mother as vampire

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Anonymous:
Thanks so much for all your insight and comments.

Ellen – Everything you say makes great sense to me – in fact you sound as though you work professionally with people with mental health problems!  I do feel that the bite was absolutely an unedited, primal view of her lack of boundaries with me. Your comment that it is dominance behavior, and symbolic, really struck a chord. It has made me start to reassess a lot of my interaction with her. I’ve always thought of her boundary invasions as a neediness on her part – like that she “needs” to know that she can walk into my house at any time without knocking, presumably because she is insecure. But it could also be interpreted as an act of dominance – like a dog marking its territory. Maybe they’re two sides of the same coin, but one tends to lead to me tolerating her behavior, or dealing with it indirectly, like locking the door so she has to knock, while the other makes me feel that I should be up front about setting limits a lot more. Thanks for that crucial insight.

I am not absolutely certain about the question of whether I’m the only one she has bitten – my stepfather has so far refused to talk about her mental problems, although my H and I have offered to discuss it. I think we will have to push harder with him. My sister did say she had seen my mother slap my stepfather, which she would not have done in the past, and which adds to my feeling that she is in the first stages of senility.

Portia – thanks for your support. I agree that her behavior is not acceptable. I guess the distinction for me is that if she had done this when I knew for sure her brain was working normally, I would feel freer to react as one adult to another, and probably with some anger.  If she’s becoming senile, I think I would feel guilty if I got angry – I would see it more as setting limits for a child.  Re my stepfather, he didn’t say anything to me when it happened, but I am absolutely certain that he told her she had to apologize to me the next morning. I know this because she never apologizes about anything unless forced to. As I said above, my stepfather won’t talk about it at the moment, but I think the time is coming when he’s going to have to.

Cathy – I agree with all your comments, except that I think senility is part of the problem. No, she’s not totally senile yet – she can carry on a conversation and write a letter and drive a car. She knew enough when it happened to make excuses for herself and hide things from my stepfather. And I won’t be at all surprised if she denies doing it or makes a joke of it – she’s done that in the past. However, my H and I have started to notice that she’s not so good at following an argument any more – I think she’s actually losing her ability to reason.

I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one who hates being touched by my mother. I wish now that I had expressed my feelings about it a lot sooner. I have tolerated her hugging and kissing me because I didn’t want to deal with her reaction if I refused – another neediness vs. dominance question!  Also, in many ways she has been the “nice narcissist” mentioned on another thread, and I was always uncertain about my feelings because everyone thought she was such a wonderful person, and because she would deny any wrongdoing when I tried to confront her.

I was fascinated by your comments about ritual cannibalism. Will have to think about this some more.
 
I have been talking to my H about telling her and my stepfather we don’t want them to visit.  I’m feeling it would be a good first step in confronting some of these issues with her or my stepfather, or both of them.

Bunny, you’re right that I have to become more self-protective. In fact, I have a terrible feeling that if she does deterioriate further she could become nasty and dangerous. I suspect that under all that wonderfulness there’s a lot of anger. If that starts to come out, I think it’s going to be pretty bad.

I can't tell you how helpful all your comments are. It means so much in this bizarre situation to be able to share it with people who have a clue what I'm talking about.

Morgan

Anonymous:
Morgan,

I once attended a support group for relatives of Alzheimer sufferers (my late FIL had Alzheimer's). Some of the group members shared that their demented parents and spouses had become violent. They became so dangerous that they couldn't live with them anymore. Also, there is CONFABULATION. This is when the demented person makes up outlandish excuses to cover up for their bizarre behavior. You may want to look into such a support group; hospitals often have them.

bunny

Anonymous:
Hi Morgan,

Just joining the thread now although I had read it earlier...how awkward and awful.  I just wanted to add that whether your mother is dominating or needy, it is still about her getting her needs met in a way that is inappropriate, and it makes you very uncomfortable.  I would also like to second the opinion that you are entitled to act out of self-protection.  

In my experiences with my NSIL, the bottom line was that I considered her a danger to my children.  I am not exaggerating.  It is my duty to protect my kids.  It is my brother's decision of what to do about the mental health of those in his home.  

The phrase I hear when deciding to institutionalize Alzheimer patients or the like is "are they a danger to themselves or others?".  You may or may not be able to influence your stepfather in this regard because he has to be able to live with any decision of what to do with his wife.  But definitely set boundaries for your exposure to her.  

This sounds awfully difficult.  I wish you the best of luck in sorting it out.  Seeker

Anonymous:
Bunny – I appreciate the suggestion of an Alzheimer’s support group. I am going to look into it. I think I need to prepare myself to deal with what may be down the road. When I think about it now, I’m staggered that my mother actually came up with a justification for biting – I mean, HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY THAT? I think I didn’t feel shocked at the time because she has always bent reality to suit her needs, especially to build up her grandiose image of herself. But if you look at it cold, she is “confabulating” already.

Seeker, I agree that the protection of your children comes before everything else. I have a feeling that it’s going to be very hard for my stepfather to make a decision if my mother becomes dangerous to herself or others. He is incredibly loyal and hard working. Also, she has said many times that she WILL NOT go into a nursing home (this was before anyone thought there might be a need).  She may have been thinking of her own mother, who became senile and just about killed my grandfather before she was finally put in a home. Even then he visited her every single day.  

I have been thinking more about all your comments, especially Cathy’s.


--- Quote ---If you look at studies of ritual cannibalism, you find that the purpose behind the eating of other people is generally not the satiating of hunger. Generally the peoples who practiced this had plenty of alternatives to eating flesh, and chose to do it in order to assimilate some characteristic of the person being eaten. Often the part that they ate was symbolic of this in some way.

I suspect that your mother's behaviour is, as you suspect, an attempt to possess you more fully, or even to become you. She even admits this in saying she wants to take you home with her. There is no consideration for your point of view, or recognition that you are a person separate from her. I have this problem too. I am invisible to my parents except as an extension of their own psyches.    
--- End quote ---


The idea that my mother wants to possess me or become me feels right to me. But when I think about it I am always stopped by the fact the she often seems to have used me as a place to locate her negative feelings. She has told me many times that when I was born I looked like a spider (apparently I was a long, thin baby and had a lot of black hair), which is a pretty ugly image. She criticized me frequently as a child for various failings – mostly to do with not living up to her standards, and I have realized that I grew up with a lot of fears that she claimed she never had – I got to feel them and she didn’t.  So why would she want to become me if to her I am the receptacle for bad feelings? Doesn’t she have to keep me separate from her to keep those feelings away from her? At the same time, of course, she says she “understands” me better than my siblings, and likes to spend time with me more than with them, and for a while she even claimed that we were linked telepathically (I would phone her and she would say, “I knew you were going to call, I was just thinking about you” -- yeah, sure.)  Or is the clingy stuff all just window-dressing to keep me around so she can feel good and I can feel bad? I find it very confusing.

Cathy, I’m sorry you also feel invisible to your parents. How do you deal with it? I am sick of it – the feeling that she simply doesn’t see who I am, and that any attempt on my part to communicate anything negative about her is met by denial, denial, denial, or anger, or blank incomprehension. I sometimes think I will welcome her death, but then I read books that say if I don’t resolve my relationship with her it will dog me for the rest of my life even after she is dead. There is certainly no hope of a resolution that involves any understanding or change on her part, because she’s incapable of it, and becoming more so every day. So it's up to me. I guess recognizing that is a good first step.

Warm thoughts to all of you –

Morgan

October:

--- Quote from: Anonymous ---
The idea that my mother wants to possess me or become me feels right to me. But when I think about it I am always stopped by the fact the she often seems to have used me as a place to locate her negative feelings.

So why would she want to become me if to her I am the receptacle for bad feelings?

Cathy, I’m sorry you also feel invisible to your parents. How do you deal with it?
--- End quote ---



Hiya Morgan

How do I deal with my mother?  I visit maybe once or twice a week, because she lives  not far from here, with my dad, and I sit and have a cup of tea with them, and then I leave.  If I have anything to say I tell my dad, and she listens and absorbs every word, and can't wait to be off and tell everyone she knows all the latest news.  She loves information, and hates to be the last to hear anything.  She never lets anyone read a paper before her.  Lol!!

And I think I am soooo lucky not to be still living with them.  She talks and talks if I am not there, but when I am in the room she mostly keeps quiet, because - she would say - I snap at her for no reason.  In reality, I do  not snap, but I do point out to her and anyone else around if a lie happens to pop into the room from her direction.  I say 'I don't think that is true, is it?' and I give evidence if I can think of any.  So she goes silent, and blanks me out, and puts on  her martyred face.  

She thinks I will understand her when she is dead.  She is rather looking forward to having her revenge as I sob over her corpse, and finally realise that I had the mother to end all mothers, but never knew it.  This image makes me laugh out loud.  And makes me want to cry.  But I don't cry.

I personally think she has been dead for a long time.  I think of her as the Living Dead, with no life or identity of her own, and having to live through other people to achieve life at all.  I am sure I will be sorry and grieve when she does die, but to be honest, my mother died a long time ago - at the point where I realised the lie.  At the point where I needed love and support because my marriage was failing, and got only criticism, rejection and hatred.  My closest family had confrontations with me for not getting rid of my ex sooner, and made ultimatums to me.  All prompted by her, but of course she didn't do the confronting.  I had to stand up to them and challenge them to do their worst, simply because the timing had to be mine, for my sake and my daughters, but they couldn't see that.

Anyway, best not go there.  My brothers still buy into the lie, although part of them knows the truth as well as I do.  Strange to see them denying their own reality, in order to protect mum from having to see hers.

OK, finally the first bit about the scapegoat.  This is complicated, as you say.  I am my family scapegoat, and my nephew is the next generation.  It is clear as day.  We are both middle children of three.  Neither the oldest (brutalised) nor the youngest (spoiled), we become the sacrificial victim.  

As you know, in ancient Hebrew society, the idea of the scapegoat was to ritually cleanse the tribe of its sins.  These were all conveniently transferred to the poor old goat, which was then cast out into the desert to die.  This left the tribe clean and pure to carry on with whatever sins they fancied until next time.  It also conveniently absolved them of responsibility for anything that had happened, and drew a nice little line under it.  This is a hugely powerful metaphor.

Similarly with us.  Thinking of my ex and his drinking, if it was my fault that he drank, then he could safely carry on doing it, and blaming me.  If I were different, he would not do it, but because I was there, he was allowed.  So I enabled him to drink, simply by being alive.  This might give us the clue to this strange question, if I am so bad, why am I special??

At the point where I stopped playing his game, and saying no, drinking is absolutely not acceptable in this house, I became a bitch and a lot more, and that gave him even more reason to say I drove him to it.  His parents still say 'D isn't an alcoholic', and 'all men like a drink now and then', and still subscribe to the view that the marriage failed because I was not tolerant enough, and that if he has a drink, who can blame him after living with me.

To both D and his parents this view of me as the wicked ex wife is necessary in order to not have to face the fact that he is an alcoholic, and that they have never allowed  him to grow up and learn to face his responsibilities in life.  By blaming me, they are left in their own cosy little world of lies and denial, and they have no responsibility whatever to face up to in terms of changing their own behaviours.

I think this is why Ns and other PDs need scapegoats, and why to an N a scapegoat may become quite a special person.  At some level they recognise the deep interrelationship between the object and their own self.

I think with your mother she can see the reality of who you are; young, beautiful, successful, and identifies those bits as 'hers'.  At the same time she projects all the nasty stuff about herself onto you, in order not to have to deal with it, but in the process she develops a deep need for you.  If you were not there, she would have a lot of unpleasant stuff to deal with for herself.  This deep need is what she calls 'love'.  It is what I came to view in my ex as paracitism, and it gave me the creeps.  It is not love.  Love is about giving and sharing.  Love is not about taking, although it may be about allowing yourself to receive.

My mum does not get this from me any more, but she has plenty of other suppliers so she is fine.  My brothers.  Her grandchildren.  Anyone else she can find, but the children are best.  They don't think for themselves, and as she knows, if she gets them young enough, they never will.

Here's a funny thought.  Wicked though.  Do you think I will get away with having 'Evil old witch' put on her tombstone?  Lol!!!!!!

Hope that helps.

Cathy

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