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Please help; hanging on by a thread

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Nic:
Hi el123,
Wanted to chime in to share with you the extent to which your dilemma can lead..the picture is not very pretty and it happened to me, recently.

What Write and Bunny have written is all absolutely spot on as responses to your situation.  You need counselling, both of you.  I am now in the process of being divorced from my wife as a direct result of N toxic/fusional relationship with my N mother and my N father.  They have been screwing up my life with their crazy making until I ended the relationship with them...
Naturally they hated my wife, which must be the position you are in now.  My parents are french ( thereby latin in culture and very dramatic!).  I get the impression from reading you and clues of them being in the restaurant industry that they could be Italian or Greek..if so we can explore how culture and its expectations and traditions can complicate or further flavour ( meant sarcastically!) family dysfunction.  
My ex wife wanted to buy a farm, actually an estate where we planned on living for the rest of our lives.  I had misgivings about this whole venture because of my parents' Nism ( which at the time I had defined without an appellation)..one night and surrounded by lawyers demanding that my parents " keep control of everything", I stormed out of the house determined not to live like that anymore.  I had had it with the control, especially with money, that my parents constantly exerted.
At home and after a heated discussion, I gave into my wife's infatuation with the property..I remember her disbelief at how absolutely rotten and controlling my N parents could be.  I warned her repeatedly that all of this was going to turn to mud..AND IT DID!  I still get very frustrated and sad, when I remember my ex-wife's self assurance when dealing with my parents...I still get very angry that while they were "nice" to her, they were talking behind her back and ruining things for her and us.  My N mother shouted at me when our conflict began how I was not the same person since I had met her and the like.  The sound of that still resonates off my neurons and drives me crazy with regret some days..
When I decided I'd had enough of " the game" I was not even willing to become an "unwilling player" even.  My mind was made up that my first loyalty was to my wife.
Many times I felt the temptation, like your husband, to remain loyal to my captors...today and after everything that has happened, I still have days like today ( today is my N father's birthday) when I want to pick up the phone and go running back to the familiar ground of dysfunction.  Thank God I won't...it is something I cannot do any longer.  I am "free" so to speak, in that I have completely severed my relationship to any of my N family.  They are living in a dreamworld, well enclosed, with its own rules..secret and silent...people..respectable well educated and sane people are unwilling to believe that my N family is that way..but I know you can.  More importantly, at this stage of the game I want to say that I believe you!
Dear girl, you are living in a terrible unhealthy environment and you must not stay there.  Your husband has slipped up by running back to them while you were away..forgive him for that and get back on track to save your marriage if you truly love/respect/are committed to each other and your children.  Break the cycle..be bold and stick to your guns.  Be willing to lose out on some level because your terrible manipulative in laws could lie and be believed about everything and anything.
If you are like my wife, although you are sane, you may find you are not fighting on your home turf. You are caught in the middle of a game, the rules of which might be familiar to you because of your own N family connection..but it is a new game you are playing.  Are you willing to bend over more than backward to remain in this game?  Is it worth it to you to spend the rest of your life catering to them or else?.....
My ex wife thought she was strong...I am happy that throughout the struggle I stayed on course with her, but my N parents' constant attacks literally drove her crazy.  I kept telling her, especially near the end when all was lost ( as a result of a very N slander campaign!) let's just salvage what we can and get away from these people, i've lived this all my life, I know these people...she wouldn't listen.  
On my side, that is in my own desperation and loneliness,  I found myself unable to cope any longer with the power struggle going on between my parents and her.  It's very complicated to explain, as in all fucked up relationships there are many twists and turns...but the end result of being married to a guy like me and your husband IS...it's not YOUR fault.  Deal with what you can, keep it sane, keep it honest and REFUSE to play the game.  Ultimatums at this stage of the game are a 50/50 gamble, I would suggest that you do not use them, because you have made a deal to cut them out of your life.  It was terribly difficult for me to "abandon" my N family but I realized I had to ...and I am still today committed to this..despite my wife not being there any longer.
To an extent I am a victim of N destructive parenting...but in truth I was a willing and an unwilling participant until I saw that leaving them once and for all was the only option.
It is imperative that you save yourself and your children. Thank God I had none with my wife.
One day, your husband might realize like me that truth and peace will be found in his admitting that he is hooked on a very toxic relationship with his N family.  The outcome of his breaking free from all that will be a life that truly belongs to him.  Some things in life are worth fighting for..there will be an awful lot of pain involved in your breaking away from this madness but you (pl.) must.
At one point in everyone's life I believe it becomes impossible in fact unliveable to run away from the truth..
wish I could write more but I have to go...
Much love and comprehension,
Nic :)
NB// please not my signature hereunder...

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: el123 ---I see your point, bunny.  But HE is the one who said that he wanted to cut them off to begin with.  Are you saying that it sounds like there's no hope here?  That there's no chance for change?  I do have an appointment with my therapist on Saturday and so does my H.

Learning,  thank you for saying it sounds like I'm taking the right steps.  I'm so confused right now that this really helps.

MM, I think I will get call block.  H would have to get it at work too, though (not sure if he can there.  He has his own office and phone but not sure if they allow it there.  I'll see about that).  Moving doesn't sound half bad and yes, I have thought of it but my daughter is in school and the other two have little friends here and all of the people I love live here so that would be worse for me I think.  Yes, he does have redeeming qualities.  That's the thing that gets me!   It would be so easy if he was a complete a*h*, ya know?  But he's not!  He took a week off of work so that I could visit my best friend in Paris.  Didn't complain about the money.  He helps with the kids.  He encourages me in my writing (I'm writing a book).  Even bought me a comfortable computer chair and carefully filed all my pages in a neat way so that I could check to see how many pages/words I had, he is so so wonderful in so many ways!  Almost everyone who meets him/knows him tells me what a nice guy he is.  And he really can be!  90 percent of the time he is a sweetheart.  And he's the father of my children and they love him and he loves them.  He helps out with them, etc.  I don't want a divorce!  I want things to work out SO BADLY!!!  I just don't know how to trust him after all of this and he's got issues from his past (but he's working on them in therapy).  I'm so confused and don't know what to do.  One minute I think that I can't stand another day with him and the next minute I just want to hug him and tell him that we'll work it out together.  He tells me that he loves me all the time.  He has never cheated on me or hurt me physically or done anything so outrageous that I could say "ok, this is it".  Now I'm rambling.  I think I need help figuring out what to do.  What is normal, what is not.  Growing up with a N mom has made me question what normal boundaries are and has given me severe trust issues.  -E
--- End quote ---

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: el123 ---I see your point, bunny.  But HE is the one who said that he wanted to cut them off to begin with.  Are you saying that it sounds like there's no hope here?  That there's no chance for change?  I do have an appointment with my therapist on Saturday and so does my H.
--- End quote ---


Can you talk to the therapist(s) on the phone before Saturday? This is an emergency.

It doesn't make it more viable if it was your husband's idea. And if his idea was to cut them off cold turkey, it was bound to fail. He would need *massive* support and professional assistance to get through even a few days without his mother and brother. He'd have to see a therapist very often and be able to phone the therapist. He might need to go to CODA (codependency) 12-step meetings so he could have support every day. I expect this would last for at least a year, maybe longer. There is no quick solution here.

If you don't want to divorce him, then I suggest intensive marriage counseling and individual therapy, as often as you can manage it. As someone else wisely said, his mother/brother are like a drug. He has expressed an intention of kicking the drug but that's a far cry from being able to do it.

bunny

el123:
seeker,  thanks for the encouraging words.  I can really relate to what you say about my H being like an addict.  That's exactly what it feels like.  I know that I cannot change him, that he has to want to change.  He says that he does.  Has even entered into therapy in order to do this.  I'm so glad that you wrote that I may want to look at my own reactions too.  I do get extremely angry when he backtracks.  He tells me that he didn't tell me that his BIL called because he was afraid of my reaction.  And, you're right, I didn't respond very well.  I got really angry and then we got into a fight and I cried myself to sleep on the couch.  This helps.  Thanks

Nic,  Yes you are right.  We are both in counseling.  Your situation sounds unbelieveably painful and I'm glad to hear that you have come through it healthier than ever.  There seem to be a few differences in our stories My MIL had come to really like me.  In fact, said that I was her 'best friend' and so did my BIL.  In fact, I'm pretty sure that my BIL has had romantic feelings for me.  Other people even said they thought it seemed that way too (not that anything would ever come of it, though).  In hindsight I realize that I was probably just a great source of supply.    Also my H knows that his mom and brother are toxic.  He does fall in their manipulative traps but at the same time knows and says that he just needs to avoid them.  He tells both me and our therapist this and means it.  Are you saying that you think that there's no hope in this?  I know that I cannot change him but he has made dramatic improvements.  I want to focus on the improvements but when a slip up happens, I freak.  -E

el123:
Something that I did not mention before was when H's brother called, and told my H to call his mother my H did call her.  But when he spoke to her he told her in no uncertain terms that he wanted space from her and from his brother.  It wasn't just a social call to shoot the s**t.  He used it as an opportunity to set some type of boundaries with her which she and BIL cannot seem to respect.

Bunny, yes I guess I could call my therapist before Saturday.  You are right that this is very important.  

I know that I probably sound very flighty and that's cause it's how I feel.  My feelings keep changing on this.  -E

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