Fundamentalist religious background

[yuki]

I wonder if Ns do feel the stress and negative feelings. I've always sort of envied her deep denial and little fantasy world - she can just believe that everything is fine while I'm here dealing with harsh reality. I've often felt that her N has caused me more pain that it has for her. I mean, she set up a certain life style for herself because it served her in some way. It was dysfunctional and unhealthy, but she created it so that it would fulfill her needs. But for me - I didn't create that and I didn't choose it - I was forced into it. The system was there to take care of HER, not me, so it was more damaging for me to be there than for her. I don't know if she feels bad about anything... if she did, I don't think she'd ever admit it (she would see that as a weakness).

Maybe there is something to Ns living to be old. She keeps telling me that she's going to amaze everyone by living to a very old age. She also thinks that she appears/acts much younger than she really is and that she can keep on doing that, so even if she gets old it won't matter. Sheesh.

[Ellie]

My dad did the same thing. Just as the kids started to get into the church thing, he dropped out - but made us all go with our mom, then yelled when we weren't home in time to make his lousy lunch for him because he was too lazy to get off the frickin chair and make himself a sandwich! He said we wanted to starve him by not coming home when he thought we should. So my mom's escape was church, but when one of us started to act a little 'religious', she belittled us saying we were acting stupid and didn't really have 'religion' in us. She never felt we come achieve the level her 'god' expected. She knew what 'he' wanted and we weren't good enough. She thought everyone else there was good enough to be 'saved', but if her dear child claimed to be - she rebuked them. Then she'd tell the dad, and he would make the kids sit in the living room while he played endless tapes from religious leaders (now fallen religious zealots) and told us we had better listen good and change our ways.

Which way is the right way? Oh, not 'god's' way which is spelled out in the bible, but mom and dad's way - the one that keeps changing every hour - just to keep you on your toes so you can never get in RIGHT!!!!!  

Now both parents are in church, but they go to different ones - dad is too good to go to the church the mom goes to.

And because I dropped out 3 years ago - FINALLY - I am going to hates    in their minds.

I will probably go for this one - but if heaven is where my N parents are spending their eternity - there had better be more than one heaven - cause I sure do not want to spend my eternity with them!!!!!

[Ellie]

I have a question for those with a philisophical background:

Can an N go to heaven? One of the 10 Commandments is "Love thy neighbor as thyself". If an N cannot love anyone else, even his own child, how can he possibly obey this commandment? And forgiveness is one of the main teachings of the bible. But an N can find no room in their hearts for forgiveness.

[Less]

Hi Ellie,

Oh I laughed out loud when I read your comment about not wanting to spend eternity in heaven with the N's.  I too have thought about this and would rather pass on eternal life thanks very much if I have to spend it with my mother!! But, my evolving sense of things is this: On earth we are always striving for wholeness, as we are on this board - reclaiming lost and unexpressed parts of ourselves. Our hell, the N's hell is living this splintered existence. I'd like to think that our spiritual selves are more whole  or entirely whole- maybe work to be done ...but on the road.

Sometimes I watch Crossing Over and I cringe when John Edward talks about being reunited with loved ones. No, No!! a lone voice in tv land cries!
So I gotta think that we are more light, less dark on "The other side." But just in case I'm wrong....would you like to sign my petition?

Please excuse if I've offended. It take spiritual work very seriously -just having a silly night (It's all MM's fault, I'm not taking any blame! LOL)
LESS

[mighty mouse]

Howdy All,

Good question about if Ns go to heaven. I will out myself right now to being a bit of a heretic.

But I believe more along the line of the Bhuddists.....there is heaven and hell right in our little bodies. And it seems to me that Ns are already in hell.

I agree with Les(s)...we who are trying to find wholeness and have awareness are in a better place. I hope that gets rewarded if indeed there is a heaven.

MM

[Michelle]

This has turned into a very mind arousing thread.  I often think about whether or not my mom will go to Heaven.  I'm definitely no religious expert or scholar, but I have strong faith and belief in Jesus and God.  Right now I am a little concerned about my mom not going to heaven because I believe that the very least requirement to get there is to believe in Jesus and have a personal relationship with him.  I don't believe it has anything to do with how good we are - we could never be good enough to earn that reward.  However, through your relationship with Jesus I think there should be some obvious fruits - the desire to do good, please him, and just make the world a better place in general.  My mother shows nothing even remotely close to any of those.  That scares me to death.  As much as I *hate* her right now, I don't want her to go to hell.  I wouldn't wish that on anyone.  Anyway, just my 2 cents.  You guys have brought up some great points.  Thanks for making my brain churn after a day of toddler activities!  

Michelle

[mighty mouse]

All,

Is NPD considered a mental illness? If so do the mentally ill go to heaven?

Some of the people who people call Ns have narcissistic tendencies and aren't full blown NPD. What about them?

MM

[Anonymous]

I think heaven and hell are on earth. we have the choice depending on how we choose to live.

[yuki]

Wow... what a topic!

I actually see Ns as victims. I mean, they're Ns because of what their parents did to them at such an early age and NPD is usually not curable, so they don't have much of a chance. I still hold them responsible for their actions of course... but I don't see them as being responsible for being N. But then, that could just be my way of dealing with my own feelings about my mom. A few years ago, I thought about the little girl that my mom was before she was a N, and decided that I could forgive HER and that I probably would have liked her too. So I don't really see Ns as deserving something bad after this lifetime...

I like more of the idea that we're here to learn a certain something in each lifetime. I don't think that Ns learn anything... so they fail their lesson.

[Ellie]

Yuki,
I Love this:
"I like more of the idea that we're here to learn a certain something in each lifetime. I don't think that Ns learn anything... so they fail their lesson."

After being told all my life what a failure I was (not at all true!), it's so funny to think of my parents as failing something! Makes my day! Thanks you  

[October]

I have a question for those with a philisophical background:

Can an N go to heaven? One of the 10 Commandments is "Love thy neighbor as thyself". If an N cannot love anyone else, even his own child, how can he possibly obey this commandment? And forgiveness is one of the main teachings of the bible. But an N can find no room in their hearts for forgiveness.

My answer to this one, thinking of my mum, is no.  For the simple reason that she will not be able to see that it is there.  I imagine her sitting on a bench outside the pearly gates complaining about the grass being too long, or the weather too hot, and not seeing eternity just beside her.

I don't believe in hell or eternal damnation, because they are absolutely impossible if God is love, but I do believe that we create our own eternity while we are here on earth, and if you are able to see other people and their needs and love them here on earth, it will be the same in eternity.  If you can only see yourself and how unhappy you are because things are not what you want them to be, then that is how you will always be.  Imo.

It is not that they are barred from heaven, or damned, or anything like that.  Just that they will not be able to see that it is there.  Just as they cannot see us.

Cathy