lots has to do with our individual temperaments

[reallyME]

As I read through various posts and responses or reactions, again it occurs to me, that, besides our individual beliefs influencing what we type, our individual temperaments have a lot to do with it too.

Sanguines tend to just want to laugh through it all, making jokes about even the most serious things.  they love to be the life of the party and will continue undaunted in their games and folly until someone really tough tells them to knock it off.

Melancholies tend to rehearse grudges, take things very personally and often self-punish when they believe that they should feel ashamed for having said/done something.  I have already seen this in quite a few board people.

Phlegmatics are the peacemaker people. They are the gentle responders that we don't hear much from, but when we do, their posts are poignant, direct, but very laid back.

and then this are people like ME...the Cholerics

These types are goal-driven, focused, headstrong, able to get the job done and very sure of themselves. 

Now, an interesting thing that my mentor recently shared with me...each of these temperaments, when out of balance, are actually traits of personality disorders...

for instance:  the goofy sanguine folks, when they are way overboard, can be HISTRIONICS

the melancholy people out of balance are BORDERLINES

the phlegmatics are AVOIDANT when overboard with it

the cholerics are NARCISSISTS when the temperament is in its extremes.

~Just something to consider as we ALL can veer too far into our temperament zones at times.

~Laura

[Leah]

 

[Certain Hope]

Laura,

You make some really good points, I think... definitely something to watch out for... as in all things, balance is key.

I am still practicing to NOT be avoidant as well as NOT swinging into a melancholy state when overwhelmed.

But as long as I'm still here... and still typing... and - at the moment - am assured that I have nothing for which to apologize... life is good!

Thanks!

With love,
Carolyn

P.S.   Leah, I do not understand your reactions to some of these posts, but I can only see what is directly before my eyes right now and after many months of reading Laura, I no longer feel myself going:  too often.

[Leah]

Dear Carolyn

I am genuinely shocked, may be it's the content, may be it's the timing, may be it's knowing

the recent disclosure of study of Psychology and such, and may be just wondering in shocked bewilderment, as is my voice.

It's good to be free to question though isn't it, I am wondering with discernment.

I like to ask questions, I like to talk freely and discuss things openly, especially in 'chewing the cud' on a variety of topics and current day

topics, I love to laugh and have fun, especially riding my bike down a hill with the breeze through my hair and laughing (don't care much

for peddling up the hill afterward though!!) and most of all, I love people.

What I am saying is ... I love life!     It's just simply much too precious to waste a single minute of.

Love, Leah

[Gabben]

Hi Laura,


That was a very good read - or reality check -  I'm a Melancholie.

If I look back on my life I see that I've had a lot of borderline in me. Black and white thinking, withdraw from the world type behavior. Discount the good when it does not meet my needs..etc.

Growing is hard -because it calls for facing myself. It is not easy work.

This is the most real post here. REAL...I like it.

My T tells me that we ALL have a little personality disorder in all of us.

Disorder I was told is anything that is in excess or too much. I can see too much anger in me, I can feel it in my chest and heart, but it is working its way out and through me...it is starting to become raw hurt in my heart.

I can see too much fear in me. I can see too much needy dependence in me. I can see a tendency to isolate in me.

Sometimes I fall back into old behaviors and patterns of thinking, regression, correct?

This post was an act of courage and it vulnerable, Laura, at least from MY perspective


Lise

P.S. my goals lately have been to forgive my parents. But now I am also starting to look at the goals to stand on my own two feet and speak my own voice, without apology.

[reallyME]

Well, as with many of my posts here, it was merely some thoughts and considerations wandering through my brain that i thought I'd share for any who might want to read about it.

Leah, it was not put here to offend you, although I realize that it possibly might be taken in a condemning way by some people who really do struggle with these personality disorder traits.  My point was exactly what Certain Hope said...we all need to guard against getting out of balance even in the natural ways that we are...temperaments.

I really have to watch that i lean more toward my melancholy (feeling) part of my personality, because otherwise I get a bit TOO sure of myself and lean toward being critical in a bad way of others.  This board has been really helpful as a place i can share but learn how to stay in balance.

I realize that everyone is not going to believe like I do, and in the end I'm ok with it.  I also know that some people are watching me closely to see if maybe they could embrace what i've found.  It is for those people that I post a lot of times.  Some will never believe as I do about God, life, choices, but I have to accept them while I dwell on the earth, as much as those who do see things the way I do.  As I've said many times, people are people..all different, yet all have something good to offer into my life.

As I heard today on a dvd i have...even people who rub us the wrong way, were put in our lives to irritate us to a point that we'd be spurred on to greater things to reach our individual destiny on this planet!  (see story of Joseph in Bible for an example of "what man meant for harm, God turned it around for good."

There are even many not-Christian-perse books written about this topic...by Tony Robbins, Zig Ziglar, Wayne Dyer and others.

~Laura

[Certain Hope]

Dear Leah,

Yes, it is very wonderful to be free to ask... why? 

I like all of those things, too... and only want to put my own self to the test (no one else) in order to prevent myself from leaping to conclusions, and so... I will continue to ask! (At least I will do this with people I trust, because with those whom I don't trust, there really wouldn't be much point!)

Thank you!

Love,
Carolyn

[tayana]

Laura,

Although I realize you are trying to make sense of personalities here, I do not think it quite fair to say there are only four personality types, and that those four types when overboard are disordered personalities.  First of all we all have all of these personality types and we all display them at times.  There are times when I can be avoidant, especially with certain people.  There are other times I might seem histrionic.  That does not mean that I have a personality disorder, that I'm heading for one.  The reason I am in therapy is to learn to deal with stunted emotions in a positive and healthy manner.  I was very encouraged when my T told me in my last session that I had a very healthy outlook.  No one falls into those categories all the time.  We are human.  We have emotions, a full range of emotions, and its not fair to lump them into categories.

Since you brought up the subject of personality disorders, there are actually three classes of disorders.  Cluster A includes paranoid, schizoid, and schizoidtypal personality disorders.  Cluster B includes antisocial, borderline, narcissistic, and histrionic disorders.  Cluster C is the avoidant, dependent and obsessive compulsive disorders.   Here is a link to more information if anyone is curious:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder

It's possible to have more than one.  My T suspects my mother is both a narcissist and a borderline, and I would add dependent to that as well.  As I've started my recovery process, I worried that I was affected with borderline personality disorder, but one of the things that I've started to realize is that if I'm worrying about it, then chances are pretty good I don't have it.  My mother never worries about such things, after all, she's above reproach.  If I have the capacity to recognize my behavior patterns, I have the capacity to change them. 

Please don't suggest that just because we have extreme emotions at times, that we are suffering from a personality disorder.  I think many of the folks here have suffered enough because of the N's that they don't need this insinuation, no matter how well intentioned.

If I have misinterpreted this post, I apologize.  However, when I read this, and I read it three times before posting, I did take offense.

[Leah]

Dear Tay,

I am not qualified in Abnormal Psychology etc., as is Laura.  So therefore, I thank you, truly appreciate you taking the time and consideration to write and post such splendid information giving clarity of understanding.

My initial response to this thread was one of shock. 

Love, Leah

[tayana]

Leah,

I was not quite certain how to take this thread.  Since I am not a counselor of any sort, though I am considering going back to school for a master's in social work, as is Laura, I'm certain I misunderstood the purpose of this thread.  I only posted my initial response to what I read.  If I am mistaken I apologize.  I am glad you found my post helpful.

I've found several excellent websites containing information about personality disorders.  I would be happy to pass them on if anyone is interested.  I've also been doing a lot of reading about NPD, abuse, and recovery in general.  Again, I'd be happy to pass along that information.  I always Wikipedia a great place to start for general information.

I'll be certain ask my T when I meet with her again if I seem to have symptoms of personality disorder.  I find my T to be an excellent source of information as well.  Or better yet, I'll ask my psychiatrist in four weeks when I see her.  She might be a better authority since she gave me my original diagnosis.  Just to clear up any confusion I'll add that I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder, and major depressive disorder.  Please note these are mood disorders, not personality disorders.  Personality disorders fall into the category of psychosis.  At my initial diagnosis with the doctor I was told I did not evidence any signs of psychosis.

I would be happy to answer other questions if anyone has them.

[Leah]

Dear Tay,

Thank you for your kind offer, but I was only really referring to my not being Qualified in Psychology.

Have done lots of research on NPD and suchlike, which has been much added to by all your articles/links recently.

Amazes me how there is always some little extra nugget that comes along.  Your recommendation of 'Operation Doubles' website was superb, as I found a very important, much needed answer there, which brought much validation.

Love, Leah

[reallyME]

Tayana: If I have the capacity to recognize my behavior patterns, I have the capacity to change them. 

Yes, Tayana, you are so right.  As Dr Phil says "you can't change what you don't acknowledge." 

My point in even mentioning temperaments in relation to personality disorders, was to talk about people who DO HAVE/HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH personality disorders, so that we could observe that, in a healthy measure, some of the traits of pd's are actually merely temperament traits that ALL people have.

I will NEVER insinuate that personality disorders are in ALL people, because I do not believe that. I, too, have been with people who I'd consider dysfunctional and disordered, and I do know the difference.  In a disorder, it invades a person's very being to a point where they BECOME their disorder.  In temperaments, a person merely BEHAVES out of those habits, because it's their first inclination...

for example:  I am mostly choleric, so, if someone insults me, the first thing I want to do is TAKE REVENGE, PUNISH...does that make me NARCISSISTIC?  Nooooooooooooooo, not if I don't actually ACT on that inclination habitually.  It just means that I tend to want to control and when someone gets out of what I think is how things should be, I want to snap them back into order.

*my eldest daughter tends to be tactless at times, imposing on my time and never thinking that it might be rude to consider that I might have other plans than to run for her at the moment.  My initial inclination is to start lecturing her.  I have learned that she just says "whatEVER" and hangs up the phone when i try to 'set her straight on the "mom's have lives too" idea, so I now tend to simply pray rather than lecture her.  My choleric side is the one that wants to lecture though...see what I mean?"

My husband, being mostly Phlegmatic, doesn't want to pay bills on time, so our utilities get shut off more often than I'd like.  However, my husband also sometimes will talk himself out of things...this, by my THERAPIST'S diagnosis (an actual psychologist at an actual clinic), means he is AVOIDANT PERSONALITY.  So, though he has phlegmatic (laid back) tendencies, he has been diagnosed AVOIDANT PD.

There are differences, not only in degree but in how much a trait invades one's life.  If you are not being controlled by a trait, don't worry, but if you find yourself terribly leaning toward one way of thinking, you may want to be examined for disorders, just in case...this isn't to further traumatize anyone, it's just good advice to keep people mentally/psychologically healthy and under the right kind of care.

By the way, it's not that unheard of, if someone was raised in a dysfunctional home, for them to have come out of it with anxiety, depression, borderline issues, etc...so i really do not think my post is that far amiss, and, yes, i did go to college to study some of these things for a couple years.

~Laura

[changing]

I think that pathological types can rarely see what their own brand of twisted is, and it is important that a qualified professional make any diagnosis- it can turn into a parlor game in the wrong hands.