Dr. Grossman

[tayana]

I considered making this post part of a new thread, but I decided to go ahead and reply here.  I am considering leaving the forum.  I just scrolled through the first two pages of posts.  There are fourteen threads dedicated to the ongoing sniping, jabbing, back-biting, and general overtone of nastiness that has infused the board of late.  Posts from those folks asking for advice and comfort are getting pushed off the main page and forgotten.  At this point, I'm tempted to return to a different board that I still post and read from time to time.  I'm not finding much comfort here.  The only reason I haven't left yet is that I have a potentially stressful situation coming up in the next week, and I may need the board's support.

I have cultivated friendships here, and online or no, they are friendships.  Despite what another poster said, I do believe friendships can be made online.  I met my best friend through an online writer's forum.  We emailed back and forth to one another for three years before meeting in person.  I've told her absolutely everything, just like she's told me absolutely everything. I certainly think good, healthy friendships can come from an online situation, if we open ourselves to them. 

It seems like we can't even have a discussion on any topic without it dissolving into general nastiness.  Since the misunderstanding a few months ago when I took a hiatus from the board, I have been very careful about how I word my posts.  Maybe some of the misunderstanding of late are simply due to poorly worded posts, however, I can't deny that in the last few days, I have felt attacked, maligned, and I have been very offended by some of the posts on the board.

It is fine to provide healthy, constructive criticism.  No matter what anyone says, we need feedback, both positive and negative to help us grow and mature.  There is an art to doing it.  I will provide some links on how to give positive criticism.  As a writer, I've participated in a number of critique groups, and I've certainly had some less than tactful editors.  Some of them are perfectly ruthless, in fact.  I've developed a fairly thick skin, and I can let most comments roll off.

LInks to constructive criticism sites:

http://www.instigatorblog.com/5-steps-to-providing-good-constructive-criticism/2006/10/03/
http://www.uncommon-knowledge.co.uk/emotional_wellbeing/friends/constructive-criticism.html
http://www.peaceandhealing.com/criticism/constructive.asp

I don't see much constructive criticism.  In fact some posters can't even post now without their comments being construed as an attack on various members of the board.  It seems as though folks want to see hidden agendas behind every comment, and they simply can't take them at face value. 

I came to this board seeing support because my family is horribly dysfunctional.  To use my T's terms, "you don't have a very healthy family do you?"  I came here because my family is not support of me, my son, or my life.  It doesn't matter what sort of success I find, it's not good enough for my family.  The only member of my family I still talk to is my brother, and even he keeps his distance because he doesn't want to get involved.  So, I have no support outside of the friends I've made.  The only person I have to rely on is me.  The board changed that, at least here, I could get advise from other very wise folks in similar situations.  It's been a lifesaver, truly.  I couldn't have come as far as I have without the support of the folks here on the board.  So thank you for that.  I would truly hate to see this board change, as it seems to be, from a safe place to work through issues, to a place where we only find more abuse. 

I don't know about others here, but I think I've suffered enough abuse for a lifetime.  I'm ready to live.

[lighter]

Hops,

I wasn't saying I necessarily *wanted* rules,  I was just pointing out that it might be helpful to have some. It's just so unusual to have a forum with no ground rules. I'd like Dr Grossman's reasons explained by him, that's all.

Janet

I wasn't suggesting rules.... I was looking for some tools that have somehow evaded my discovery so far

I might see some very direct way of empathically saying something, that gets the point accross and doesn't leave me feeling like I just chopped off the meat of a subject.... then be able to let the THING go, KWIM?

If the goal is to help other's and feel better.... and trying to help is a lose lose situation (sad but there it is) then there's a next appropriate step?

I can't even say that I don't think I took it and it failed.... if it even exists.... ::shaking head::  Not sure but will give it more thought while going through walking meditation of honoring household Gods.  ::nod::

[Hopalong]

Hi Lupita,
I really appreciate those thoughts.
I find them very helpful and wise.

Thank you.

I need to learn to skip posts too, or sort of squint-skim, to pass by the screechy and get to the many wise deep posters whoses voices teach me the strong things, the good things. And that's okay. (Didn't I just sagely advise newbies it's okay? Fer Pete's sake, Self.)

love,
Hops

[Leah]

Tayana posted .....
 
So thank you for that.  I would truly hate to see this board change, as it seems to be,

from a safe place to work through issues, to a place where we only find more abuse. 

I don't know about others here, but I think I've suffered enough abuse for a lifetime.  I'm ready to live.

Hear Hear   Tayana

Life is too short and precious to waste!

We have a life to live!

Question:   What about  2008  ??

It really could be so different.

Leah

[lighter]

Interesting thread--I thought at first that it was addressed to, Dr. Grossman and realize now that it is about Dr. Grossman.

Here's my two cents:

5) I don't think that Dr. Grossman can help us with any of this.  He can lock threads, delete threads, slap hands.  Those remedies will simply teach to us to fine-tune our masks (if sarcasm locks a thread, we will learn to not use sarcasm as a mask--but we won't take off the mask).  Basically the question that's being asked, and the solution that's being proposed, is: what kind of mask is acceptable.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on it. 

CB

I guess you could look at it that way but.... masks make me throw up

Isn't there some way to talk about the elephant in the room..... without being labled a trouble making nut job by society, the courts, the police, our families and this board?  The only people I can really talk to are psychiatrists, physchologists and a few people who've been through tougher times than me.  

I have no idea why this is so hard for me.... I usually feel like I can fix something but..... alas.... I'm searching very hard and coming up frustrated with a dodgey stomach.

I realize I can't literally fix this or anything really.... and perhaps that's part of my journey.

Until then..... I guess I'll just get ready for another journey into size ONE.  Thank goodness I already have clothes in size sick scarecrow.

[JanetLG]

lighter,

"I don't see alternatives, that don't make me vomit, besides NC."

This sounds like the best idea, to me. That doesn't mean anyone should feel they have to leave the forum to achieve it, just NC anyone who makes them sick.


Janet

[Lupita]

Thank you Hops. I was so afraid that somebody would get offended. But you are always nice. Thank you.

[lighter]

lighter,

"I don't see alternatives, that don't make me vomit, besides NC."

This sounds like the best idea, to me. That doesn't mean anyone should feel they have to leave the forum to achieve it, just NC anyone who makes them sick.


Janet

I know I've said this before.... I don't want to police the playground but.... it's really hard for me to pretend I don't see someone off whispering  and courting newbies..... grooming them for reasons I can't even fathom.... then sit back and ignore it when the same old problems come around again.... always the same but with new players thrown into the mix.

I'll have to give it some more thought..... NC may very well be the ONLY way.

What do you do when you can't go NC and you're struggling?


I heard you say there isn't any alternative..... ::shaking head::: If that's so.... then women won't ever be taken seriously in the legal system and we'll always be dismissed out of hand, just bc, and there's no alternative for society.... as a whole.  

I guess what I'm saying is..... the collective WE, aren't capable of learning from mistakes?

Enlightenment dies along with the mystical proper apology?

[Ami]

Lighter,     Since Dr G has cited you for  abuse  on TWO occassions,you MIGHT be wise to heed it.        Ami

[Certain Hope]

I have no idea why this is so hard for me.... I usually feel like I can fix something but..... alas.... I'm searching very hard and coming up frustrated with a dodgey stomach.

I realize I can't literally fix this or anything really.... and perhaps that's part of my journey.

Dear Lighter,

I believe that what you've expressed here is indeed the crux of the matter.
At least, that's how it was for me... such a startling revelation that it is NOT my job/duty/responsibility/mission in life to "fix" anything or anyone but myself... and that, only by God's grace!

With love to you,
Carolyn

[teartracks]

Hi everyone,

I think there is a lot to be said for knowing when to shut up. 

I think there is a lot to be said for being satisfiable in discussions, even if it is to hit your neutral button and just let it be.  Turn your attention to something else.  Avoid power struggles.

I think there is a lot to be said for not having to have the last word.

I think there is a lot to be said for recognizing when you're not helping the other person.

I think there is a lot to be said for recognizing that we're not here to fix others but to fix ourselves.

Most people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care.

I don't think Dr. G will succumb to a power struggle over how to run the board.  No checkmates here!

tt

[lighter]

Yes Hope.... I hear you.

I see your point.  Duly noted.

I just can't get past the part where I ignore chronic messing with my serenity.... when I have a perfectly capable voice and I'm not afraid to use it any longer

I lost it for about 2 years.... then got it back.

Then I lost it again for about 6 years..... and now it's back.

How do I manage to not use my voice.... when I'm hear to learn how to use my voice and not stifle, pretend and ignore things that affect me?  

[tayana]

Ami, Lighter started this thread to help her understand how to deal with the situation going on the board.  I do not see a thing she's posted here as abusive.  Stop reading into this.  This is a very worthwhile discussion, and one that needs to be had since she's trying to figure out how to post on the board without inciting flames.  Lighter, if I'm wrong, please correct me.

Lighter, maybe the way to do NC here on the board is just simply not to post even if the thread is something you'd really like to reply to.  I've seen a couple of those lately.  We should be learning from mistakes, really we should.  I think the only way to save ourselves when NC isn't an option is to set very strong boundaries and refuse to allow them to be violated.

Bean, I think you are exactly right.  I'm certain as some people find recovery, they no longer need the board.  Even though I think I've made great progress, I've stuck around because I like passing on things I've learned to others.

TT, you made some great points.

Lighter, is it possible that having a voice also means learning when to use it?  Is it possible we can use our voices too much? 

[Certain Hope]

Lighter,

I hear you, too, when you say,

I just can't get past the part where I ignore chronic messing with my serenity.... when I have a perfectly capable voice and I'm not afraid to use it any longer

But that's not true... you can get past it, you just have not yet gotten past it.

Your voice has been heard here, loudly and clearly.
However, there is a difference between knowing that you've made a connection with other voices and demanding that your voice rule supreme, you know?
Maybe it's a platitude, but I know that I must use extreme caution when judging others, for this very reason... to judge righteously, lest I become guilty of the same activities/behaviour which I denounce on the part of others.

Until you choose to get past this - a decision of will and not a feeling - you are allowing someone else to control your serenity.
It really is all your choice.

You're not the only one here with discernment, you know?
Others see... and those who don't (yet) have the capacity to see... all in their good time.

Really, when you're beating a dead horse, the wise thing to do is dismount!
Let natural consequences take their effective course... it is a law of the universe that all folks WILL reap what they sow.

With love,
Carolyn

[lighter]

Sure tay... I thinkwe all know it's possible to use our voices too much, lol.


It's also possible to outgrow the board... someone said they become impatient when they've grown beyond the board and they realize it's time to step back.

I'm still left with the question.... "how to deal with chronic gaslighting I can't go NC with?"

I'm still feeling that speaking honestly, keeping one's voice moderate, not name calling, sticking to the subject and not jumping around to others is failing me, lol?

It rarely fails unless there's something covert and chronic going on...... then I hit a wall and I'm talking about in every direction.

It's not just the board.

If I had 10K for every time someone asked me what I did to recieve such and such treatment, or didn't I know what I was getting into when I blah blah blahed......

I can speak plainly and not be understood.

Not sure why that is or if society's every going to be ready to look at the undercurrent.... the problem and not just the symptoms as the cause.

I agree.... dealing with the N's and the BPD and the Sociopaths isn't much fun, choose any Cluster B disorder.  

Blaming and dismissing the people impacted by it's gotta be easier.... esp when it's covert and under the wire.  

Just discussing it's crazy making, KWIM?  Downright impossible so far.  

I might have to embrace serenity and lose the desire for understanding..... to use my voice in situations I may not go NC.

Until then.... I'll keep kicking the subject around and seeing what comes up.