Damned if you do, damned if you don't

[Leah]

Yeah...I'm up too early.  Cut a big chunk out of my finger yesterday while at work.  All these months of work, I'm down to the last week, and I took a big ol' wedge of finger out. Yuck.

Oh, CB,

That * feels * awfully painful.

Hope it heals quickly for you.

Love, Leah

[lighter]

Hops!  ::clapping happily::

Loved the solemn moment, lol.

[reallyME]

Wow! I have a lot to talk about in response to these posts:

First, CB's #'s of options:

CB: 1) Ignore the whole thing and not make any judgments at all about any of it.  

This is not ME at all.  I'm a confronter, not a "brush it under the rug and have no view on it" type of gal.  This is why you will see me stickin my nose in sometimes where it wasn't asked to be stuck.  I'm still learning to determine when it's ok to have a say or when certain folk, even though they ask for "opinions" actually only want to be assured that they are sooooooooo right!

CB: 2) Contact other people individually and behind the scenes so you can offer sympathy and support without getting involved in open conflict on the board.  I am really reluctant to do that since that appears to be gathering factions behind the scene and that feels smarmy to me.  Not to mention the fact that it is proabably that very tactic that puts steam behind the original gaslighting.  

I have NO problem with people pmming.  Everyone has a right to talk to whomever they want, whenever they want, provided both parties are in agreement to the arrangement.  I currently have talked to several people from this board in pms, and make no apologies for it.  There are people I would be talking to privately, besides these, but they made it clear that they wanted NO contact with me privately, and I have respected that.  Usually, I figure that God is sparing me from something by not connecting me with those people.

CB: 3) Leave the board because it just isnt safe.

Newsflash here! This board is never actually SAFE.  The people here have come from dysfunctional homes, and, unless they are currently in therapy, and dealing with their issues, you are bound to relive much of the same baloney that you just came from in your family of origin.  That's not to diss on anyone here; it is the plain, cold, hard truth.  It is always my prayer when I read messages on here, that each person with the deep issues, is currently in therapy or at least seeking some sort of viable help.  The things you've endured, are not things you can overcome by sheer will-power, prayer, nice thoughts.  That is why this very board is run by a what?  a therapist.

CB: 4) Continue to hammer out, on the board, in the open, the dynamics of what is happening.  
when you are dealing with relationships that consist SOLELY of discussion, that pretty much closes down the board whenever there is a conflict.  

Yeah, I will only hammer till my arm gets too tired.  Once I see that my view is not going to be the accepted one, I hush.  I learned that a long time ago here.  I just had to ask myself "so what? what if the entire board agrees with/turns against you, Laura?  What does it matter either way to the rest of your day/life? Not much if anything."

OK now for my response to Lighter:

Lighter: Too much discomfort?  Remember when Peck took that woman apart in his book, PEOPLE OF THE LIE?  She was going on and on about how much trouble it was to care for her husband, what would he do without her, how taxed she was at every moment and when he/Peck began steering her to the obviouse,
that she didn;t have to stay and demean this man while building herself up non stop as his savior, she could go   She started falling apart.  Peck put her back together and left her the way she was, bc she was an even bigger mess when her behavior was pointed out.  ::sigh::  Really dizzy now.

Ok, first of all, I agree with Peck.  If someone is abused, in a situation where there is help available if they would LEAVE IT, staying is not smart.  Playing "Martyr" is never a wise move.  Why did "I" stay with my nH?  because he isn't a full-fledged N and because he has actively been going to counseling, attending marriage seminars, reading marriage books and making a REAL change in our family and marriage.  He knew that if he hadn't done these things, I had already talked to lawyers and authorities and was prepared to leave.  This is what anyone in abusive situations NEEDS TO DO...am I being bossy? controlling?  yes?  that's fine, but as Dr Phil might say..."ok so you've decided to stay while he beats your brains out or tears you down verbally....how's THAT workin for ya?"

Secondly, question, Lighter...what's with all the ::dizzy::   :::confused:::    :::sigh::...all that stuff.  Is that your way of expressing non-verbals in text?  Been wondering.

Lighter (I think) :What can be gained by having a group provide understanding and validation of our perceptions?

In my opinion, I suppose it lets a person feel validated, similar to if their family would have believed them, but what can this group on this board really DO for you?  I mean, in a family, validation would have meant...hugs, smiles, priviledges, acceptance of parents, lack of sibling revenge.  Here, it means WHAT?  You go for a day knowing you WON a board battle?

CB again: Lighter, I think what can be gained is everything that each one of us has gained while being on this board.  That is really the only true value of the board.  Understanding and validation of our perceptions.  No one here has anything to go on, except our perceptions of what we have been through.

And therein lies the "rub" CB.  We have perceptions of what we've been through.  We all type into posts, based on how we have learned to see the world, unless we have gotten the help we've needed along the way...therefore, as I've said, I have learned to stop taking people's screwy views on here, so personally.  We are in the midst of some actual borderlines on this board.  I could easily point out who is who, based on traits that are universal, but the point is, this board does not lend to seeing someone's eyes, body language, hearing their voice, watching their facial expressions.  It's a rather "iffy" way to communicate or establish and intimate, trusting relationship at best.

CB: I have often said that if my NH were to find this board and tell our story, you all would think that I was the biggest creep on the face of the earth.  He would get all the sympathy that I have gotten.  And the only difference is our perception of what has gone on in our lives together.

I have already watched X come to this board and saw many members actually take her side against me in  heartbeat...some of the very ones I believed were my allies.  It was shocking and yet, when I considered the background of those accusers of me, it made sense.  I was able to tell myself "go figure...so and so is reenacting her role that she played with the N in her life."  I realized I was on my own in facing, X and I feel I handled her just fine and she eventually left here and I took back my peace. (although I have no doubt that she has her henchmen checking the board from time to time to see if I posted anything new that could be incriminating evidence against me)

By the same token, I have heard some here who have vented about their circumstances, and I felt that I could see their own culpability in it.  Would pointing that out have been helpful?  Perhaps.  But that's not what we do here.  We accept everyone's story at face value and then support them.  

I think I've already alluded to this fact.  I have seen people on this board, posting about their "n's" who acted just as "n-ish" as the ones they referred to.

For example, when Laura tells us that her daughter is an N, we can't look at her daughter as someone who is reacting to past hurts (which is the truth we would apply to one of our own number).  In order to fulfill our function as validators in Laura's life, we have to accept her interpretation of what is going on and sympathize with her pain--and even vilify her daughter.

Oh, on the contrary...my daughter IS reacting to past hurts and present ones she hasn't forgiven and let go of.  She is reacting because her mother, who was tired of being bitten, hit, punched, kicked, threatened, by her as a very young child, finally retreated from the entire situation for about 3 1/2 years, getting lost in computer land.  I take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the neglect of her and my other daughter during those times.  Now, I am faced with a child who had to basically raise herself, get through a lot of her deep hurts on her own, and who has decided "you weren't there for me then, what do I want with ya now?!"  Yes, I need validation as far as I deserve it, for eventually WAKING UP and realizing what I was doing to my children and family by escaping through a computer world.

The tendency of a lot of folks on this board is to listen to a person's story, even what I just told you, and say "there there, that must have been terrible," when honestly, I have more appreciated my spiritual mom who has held me accountable and THEN given mercy, by saying "YES that was WRONG of you to desert your children like that, but you have done what you needed to, to show Anna that you were very wrong and that you are truly sorry, and now SHE Is the one who needs to forgive and let it go."

There has GOT TO BE BALANCE in the way we respond to people on this board...if what they did was wrong and they admit it, it is FINE to say "that was wrong, so what are you doing to get help, to change, to make things right again."

ALL of the ABOVE responses are MY view alone and i own and take fullest responsibility for it and welcome all comments.

~Laura

  

[mudpuppy]

Private opinions are one thing. Continued and repetitive public humiliation and dxing as fact are quite another.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that my perceptions are skewed, after all.  I'm human.  I can admit that, and not just to gain sympathy either.

 

If you really were I doubt you would be quite so blasted assured of the conclusions you draw from your perceptions or quite so ready with the snide innuendo.

What I'm not willing to do is accept someone else's skewed version, if it makes no sense to me at all.....

If your first statement at the top is operable then your second is inoperable, isn't it? If your perceptions are skewed then what does not make sense to you may be perfectly sensible.

.... if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and spreads confusion like a duck......

 Methinks the lady doth quacketh too much.

mud

[boardguest]

Hi boardguest,

This post was deleted.  Please sign in and post it under your screen name. 

Thanks,

Richard Grossman





 

[lighter]

Private opinions are one thing. Continued and repetitive public humiliation and dxing as fact are quite another.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that my perceptions are skewed, after all.  I'm human.  I can admit that, and not just to gain sympathy either.

 

If you really were I doubt you would be quite so blasted assured of the conclusions you draw from your perceptions or quite so ready with the snide innuendo.

What I'm not willing to do is accept someone else's skewed version, if it makes no sense to me at all.....

If your first statement at the top is operable then your second is inoperable, isn't it? If your perceptions are skewed then what does not make sense to you may be perfectly sensible.

.... if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and spreads confusion like a duck......

 Methinks the lady doth quacketh too much.

mud
[/quotr]


Thank goodness you stopped quacking, eh, lol?

[lighter]

Mud.... I was thinking.

I'm so glad you're free to list your thoughts out here, on the board.....

so glad you've gifted your honesty to me.

All along....

you never pulled a punch.  

Thank you.

I've noticed..... I no longer need the radio in the car.  

My mind's excited to entertain my own thoughts..... my company's enough.

This is a new, unexpected gem of understanding and acceptance gleaned, in part, from my time spent here.  

There've been hudreds of other lessons, leading up to this point but..... the board's been a catalyst and I'm so grateful for that.

To everyone here, the wise, the confused, the sure and the undecided.....

Merry Christmas, everyone.  

If I'm not on much..... I'm baking biscotti and wrapping presents, deciding on final cheese board selections and last minute purchases.

Right now..... just trying to live in the present and enjoy my blessings..... is enough.

 

Shunned.... exactly, lol! 

Just feeling entitled to an opinion.... to share it, throw it out there is an amazing thing for those who weren't always sure who they were, much less how they felt/feel about small things, medium things ANY things, lol!

What an amazing place to stand.... and just be.

It doesn't matter that we're addressing the good, the bad or just people made of static.... waiting to be. 

As long as we know who we are, trust our instincts and are willing to examine and question our motives and actions......

I think were good  

((((Shunned))))  Merry Christmas.... I'm quite a bit into your story on the story board. 

You're an amazing person who always seemed to have a kind grasp on reality..... even beyond many adults ability. 

Amazing.

It's so satisfying to read your posts and see your light shine.