Careers and work

[claris]

Hello all

I have been working with my therapist on my current career change and spent a lot of time talking about my N mother and her impact on my life choices, especially regarding my previous career choices and the fears and insecurities associated with taking a new path.  

I'd be interested to hear your stories of your choices about work and career, and the effects that your Ns may have had on them.  

Thanks!

Claris

[Anonymous]

I'm an underachiever. I think my upbringing had a lot to do with it. My parents weren't good at helping children feel competent. They were very disapproving and critical.  I could've worked harder to change this as a grownup and I didn't. It's a very weak area for me.

bunny

[mighty mouse]

Thanks a lot, Claris.

You have hit a very sore subject with me LOL.

I will tell you about my career path and let you all judge whether or not I should have a giant "L" for loser on my forehead.

Basically I've been in the same business for 27 years. This is a career for which I am totally ill suited for (personality wise) and have always felt like I never did very well in. Oh, I was competent enough but couldn't "work and play well with others" as the saying goes. Oh, and I'm book smart and people stupid (as my parents were very fond of saying).

I had at least 12 jobs in almost as many years (3 fired and 9 quit) until I finally decided I had better work for myself. That worked out pretty good for about ten years but the last 3 1/2 have been kind of bad because of market forces, being usurped by the internet and never liking my work.

I will admit to sabotaging myself, being lazy and not keeping my skills up and basically wanting to watch reruns of Hawaii 5-0 more than working. I am smart and have talent and am very well read. But I can't think of what I really want to do.

I have many avocational things like interior decorating, nutrition and personality typing/psychology that I'm interested in or am good at. But when it comes to thinking about them as a career, I can't really go there. I can't grasp onto anything where I can even conceive of "Doing what I love and the Money will Follow" or doing whatever with the parachute (what's that pesky book called?).

How has my N quotient factored into all of this? Well I've decided that I should maybe be the next Mr. Bellevedere or Mr. French (if I was a dude) since I am really good at:

1. anticipating everyone's needs but my own.
2. being very efficient
3. serving everyone (I am super at housework btw)
4. acquiescing to Ns and non Ns
5. acting happy when I'm not
6. walking on eggshells so as not to irritate the irascible N

Now that is just my professional life. My NMom basically picked my career for me (I had no guidance counselor or parent directing me in any way to something I might actually be good at) from a brochure that came in the mail for a jobs school. I aced their little entrance exam and was on my way to a career I've hated for 27 years.

But I do keep a nice, extremely well decorated house that I'm proud of and have a great husband. So I am not totally pathetic. But this issue just burns me up. I had (have) great potential and I feel like it was wasted towing the N line for so long. Now I'm in the position of thinking of what I'd like to do for a career that's my choosing. Geeze, I'm 46 now.

I am totally stuck. I feel like Bunny in that I am an underacheiver as well (although Bunny seems like no underacheiver to me). I get the "not feeling competent as children" thing....only too well. BTW, I realize I sound childish. I actually started growing up when I cut ties with my Ns. But it's a process as you all know.

So jury, what's the verdict?

MM

[looking ahead]

Hi thread,

Dang, mighty mouse, I thought that I had a checkered past in the work place! LOL

But it's been very frustrating for me because it seems like I was never heard. We'd have an office meeting, I would suggest something only to be told that my idea couldn't be done. Then lo and behold a year or two later my idea was implemented. Same thing with a guy at work that always co-opted my ideas like they were his own. I'd say something in a meeting. wasn't acknowledged and then the next week the guy would say exactly what I said like it was his own idea. He did this outside of work also and it was eery. I never challenged him. Now I would but I don't work with this person anymore  

Always felt like I was invisible is what I'n trying to say. I am intelligent and capable but never made a big mark and wasn't good at sucking up to the bosses and such. Never good at office politics.

Looking ahead.

[Anonymous]

bunny - you are always so wise on your posts i'd never call you an underachiever either.

MM - after all the difficulties i have had with my own career i'd never presume to sit in judgment of anyone!  isn't it incredible how we find ourselves doing something for years and years that someone else picked out for us when we were young?  but i've been learning how deep the mental programming can be - it goes to the core of who you think you are and what you perceive your possibilities in life to be.  i think this is a difficult issue even for people who did not have N parents or influences, but having an N can definitely undermine you when you are thinking about making career changes.  it is a long process - i'd say my career shift has been a series of small steps over the past two years - but it is never too late to start.  

i think my N mother had an influence on my becoming an 'overachiever' at all the wrong things.  i had extreme pressure through childhood to bring home perfect grades and scores, to get into the best university, to choose a 'prestigious' job, to make a lot of money.  i was harshly punished for getting anythign less than perfect grades, but I was also punished for asking for help if I was having trouble.  i was a trophy - an object to brag over to friends and a way to compete with her siblings.  i ended up in a high pressure career that was unsuitable for me but was extremely hard to leave because it didn't make 'sense' for me to want to leave.  it was also hard for me to work through my own fear and confusion to understand what a more suitable career would be.  like bunny, i didn't feel competent.  i had no sense that i could be happy at work - i thought i was doomed to be unhappy in my career because i had never been happy and my choices were not really my own.

i'm slowly trying to change my ways, one small step at a time.

claris

[mighty mouse]

Claris,

Thank you for the encouragement. I need it.  

I hope I can figure out what I want to do when I grow up someday..... maybe some professional help to get going.

MM

[sonia]

Bunny,

You don't seem like an underacheiver to me. Do you work in the field of psychology?

Sonia

[bunny]

Sonia,

Believe me, I am an underachiever, at least in the area of career. I don't work in the field of psychology. I'm not a therapist or psychologist. I'm a very lowly worker, not achieving my potential in the slightest.

I'm very gratified that you guys don't see me as an underachiever.  

bunny

[les]

Phew...for"underachievers" MM and Bunny you certainly are overachievers in the wisdom, advice and reading between the lines department.

 Bunny, are you content doing what you are doing? I have a friend with a philosophy background but he drives a school bus by choice - gives him time to read and think.

MM - I have no doubt that you would be a real powerhouse if what you like to do lined up with your work. What do you like to do? What are some fantasies? Get the feeling that you are a damn good interior designer to start with. What's holding you back do you think?

How is it going Claris? Are you getting any closer to finding something that lights you up? I imagine you are exploring your interests with your therapist but what turns your crank?

Like you, Looking Ahead, I have done a lot of things in my working life. Of course it could just be my advanced age as well! By 54 I guess it is likely there would have been a few career changes. I've never felt solid in any of them and struggle mightly with self -esteem.  Must confess that sorting mail at the post office is looking very attractive to me ( honourable work, not dissing this at all, in fact want to do it)...slide into retirement without the load of self-doubt that follows me around like Linus's cloud. I got a call a few days ago from a friend who is a writer asking me if I'd like to apply to be an editor of a children's magazine. In a way I would. I have some experience in publishing but it is a bit old, like me, so I am going to let it slide...but then I think, well, maybe, I could do it. Someone actually called me so maybe they know something I don't know. Agh, I think I'll let it go.

Les

[mighty mouse]

I have a friend with a philosophy background but he drives a school bus by choice - gives him time to read and think.

Oh Les,

That's what I'm doing right now. I have a philosphical bent and like to read, contemplate and watch the afternoon sunlight. I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go 'round and 'round (John Lennon song).

MM - I have no doubt that you would be a real powerhouse if what you like to do lined up with your work. What do you like to do? What are some fantasies? Get the feeling that you are a damn good interior designer to start with. What's holding you back do you think?

Well, I haven't a degree, so would have to start from scratch. And then there's the money for a degree. I might be able to start an interior decorating business (no degree required but minimal training) and am looking into that. I have a way with spatial relations and colors and have a good eye. But it usually takes me forever to get going on something since I'm too worried about perfection.....I've thought of giving that up. But right now I am being a bit lazy and trying to reconcile myself with it. And I'm worried about unleashing myself on the public as it were (I am a bit too blunt - INTJ tendancy - and I hate small talk with a passion except for my H and close friends). I'm trying to improve my artless conversation skills, but I feel like a fraud.

Glad to see you back in as Les. Do you like teaching (I peeked at your small bio). I hope that was alright. Or are you looking to bust out?

MM

[mighty mouse]

I just wanted to say my fantasy is being a pillow fluffer at Crate and Barrel- okay, just kidding.

No, what I really wanted to say is that interior design requires a degree and interior decorating doesn't. I'm not sure I made that crystal.

MM

[les]

Got it -the difference between the two. I have a friend who started with wall treatments and wallpapering and then added other elements as clients wanted them - no degree, just a passion and well...a sore back.

 How cool! the bus!  Ever since my philosopher friend started doing this, I've thought, hmmm, maybe I could do that too. He loves the time it gives him throughout the day to read...I think it is so great that he walked away from the chew you up and suck you dry world (hmm, sounds like my mother) he was in before.  [contemplate and watch the afternoon sunlight]-now that's my idea of living at its best, although I'm sure it must come with some downsides as every job does.

Teaching - I teach ESL right now.  It's a good job but a bit stressful at the moment ...not to mention the voice problem issue, so I only teach in the mornings now and rest this strangled throat in the afternoon. I've been advised by speech therapy to get a special mike to help me project my voice ( oh I know, the irony)  I think being raised by N's leaves you exhausted. A friend mentioned this about being raised by alcoholics, also my situation..that we are so tired as adults. I think it's why I am seeking a quiet job where I don't have to perform all the time (a lot of demonstrating the language, as well as a lot of listening and helping with pronunciation, grammar etc) Being an INFP as well, perhaps teaching is the wrong profession?

I think it is a real gift -to be able to feather a nest beautifully - I have no frigg'n idea...as if  I'm blind or something but like good chocolate, I know it when I taste it.

There are great books on Perfection - Addicted to Perfection, I believe is one. It is so crippling.  I'm sure you've tried to release yourself from its grip.  Read any good books on the subject?

Good to hear you are looking into interior decorating -  I have this picture of you in your red cape sitting in a splendid livingroom! Keep us posted! Just also wonder if you enjoy your current occupation? Does the rhythm of the day suit you?

Les

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone, may I join in?

I am a booksmart, people stupid person also.  Never got office politics etc though I could suck up to my boss and teachers very well.  guess where I learned that?    

It wasn't until very recently that I learned about the real effects of being invisible.  I thought I was just a loner, didn't realize the full invisibility of it all.  I realize that I sabotaged myself in different extracurricular areas because unconsciously I learned that it was dangerous to draw attention to myself.  Either my father or my brother, and occasionally my mother would pound on me verbally, make fun of me, or make snide remarks to undercut my confidence.  It was okay to make good grades as long as there was no fuss about it (they expected this of my siblings and myself, but no rewards as that would make the others feel bad...ugh!)  

I had the potential to really excel and am just now trying to coach myself into ignoring the feedback, which is really just jealousy, of my family talking in my head.  They say the stupidest things when they are really competing for the same things I want.  So what's wrong with me wanting to stand up and be counted?  

Even now, when they try to sound "encouraging" it sounds hollow and fake.  It makes me wince.  

I also think certain occupations are devalued as a waste of time: artists, writers, etc.  In my family, you must wear a suit and get in the business world.  I was so ill-suited (whoops, no pun intended!) for that arena!  One does not have to climb the corporate ladder to make a contribution to society, find gainful employment, and find purpose and hopefully happiness.  Oi!  I have more to say, but must sign off now.  

Thanks for listening, Seeker

[les]

Hi Seeker

Like MM, you describe yourself as book smart and people stupid. Was this a message you got from your family? Your posts show a very people wise person.

"I learned that it was dangerous to draw attenton to myself"
] I really relate to this. How can you shine, blossom when it seems to be a threat to other family members' egos. I remember one day last year I resolved to tell my mother something about myself. I told her that I was doing the crossword on the way to work,  learning how to do it anyway. Well, she said those are sooo borrrrring, and she would only ever do the "cryptic" crossword because it challenges her mind. And that was the first and last time I've tried to tell my mother something personal about me. Wham!

[/quote]  so true. I couldn't agree more. I'm reading a book "Narcissism - denial of the true self -by Alexander Lowen. He says, Narcissism describes both a pyschological and a cultural condition. On the individual level it denotes a personality disturbance characterized by an exaggerated investment in ones' image at the expense of the self. ...On a cultural level, narcissism can be seen in a loss of human values- in a lack of concern for the environment, for the quality fo life, for one's fellow human beings.

What is that wonderful quote by Nelson Mandela: something like...'and who are you NOT to shine your light brightly'.... must go find it!
'
ciao for now people-WISE person,

 (as with logging in I am now trying to learn how to use the "quote" option and making a real mess of it. Can anyone advise?!
Les

[Ellie]

Hi Les,
I think I can help on the quote thing. Type the text you want in quotes on a new line. Hit the 'Enter' key again to separate the text from other text. Highlight (scroll over the text with your mouse to select it) and click the 'Quote' button. It puts [/Quote] at the start of your quote and at the end of your quote. Then when you submit your message, the quote goes into a pretty little box with the tag 'Quote'. That's it. Works the same for the other buttons. Have fun learning!