Neglectful Silence

[Hopalong]

Wow, Lollie.
Extraordinary understanding from your dream.

Hops

[emptied]

I felt the need to thank you for this initial post. I think that the silence was in a way the worst. All of those messages that other kids get about how the world works and how to make their way in the world just didn't happen. It leaves you as a child with NOOO input that helps you to grow and develop or understand the world. I see myself explaining things already to my grand niece who is less than one and am astounded that a child could grow and develop without this input at one or five or ten. I was afraid of everything, because I knew I was on my own and that at five or ten I wasn't equipped to deal with the world.

Izzy-I was totally an inattentive child at school. Always off in my own little world, but I never fought. I don't think that I had enough sense of me and my own rights to have stood up for myself on anything.

Hugs to all!

[Certain Hope]

I felt the need to thank you for this initial post. I think that the silence was in a way the worst. All of those messages that other kids get about how the world works and how to make their way in the world just didn't happen. It leaves you as a child with NOOO input that helps you to grow and develop or understand the world. I see myself explaining things already to my grand niece who is less than one and am astounded that a child could grow and develop without this input at one or five or ten. I was afraid of everything, because I knew I was on my own and that at five or ten I wasn't equipped to deal with the world.

Izzy-I was totally an inattentive child at school. Always off in my own little world, but I never fought. I don't think that I had enough sense of me and my own rights to have stood up for myself on anything.

Hugs to all!

Dear (((((((((((Emptied))))))))))... hugs to you. Me, too - exactly.

My own children have often looked at me quizzically, as I've explained in great detail about some relatively insignificant fact or process...
too much info, I know, at times...  but I'll never forget how utterly starved I was for so long, for even the most basic knowledge of how the world works and how to make my way in it.
Still learning!

Carolyn

[emptied]

You know it is funny to realize how this problem has played out so differently in different peoples lives. I am sure there are lots of folks here that would have given anything to have their parent stop telling them what to do and how to do it. For me, it was an experience of just being a child and being out there on my own figuring out everything. I also had never actually been taken anyplace, participated in anything most kids do, even discussed school or a TV show-so when I got older and it was time to do some of those things, I was really, really scared, unsure how to go about things and felt as though I just didn't fit. At times I hid this behind a mask of "individual" (I didn't try to fit into any of the groups) but really it was because I felt that I just couldn't fit anywhere.

[Certain Hope]

Hi Carolyn,

><(((((*>

so love the fish 

Love,

Leah

Leah    He's kinda cute, isn't he?    ><(((((*>

Love to you,
Carolyn

[Certain Hope]

I'm glad, Leah     Spread that fishy around... he likes to travel!   

Love,
Carolyn

[Hopalong]

I am SO grateful that Lollie wrote about Medium Chill.
My brother returns Weds.

I will practice.

Steel doors.
Say only what can be printed in the paper.
Neutral, cordial, unreactive.

I think it'll be okay.
Been getting "concerned, helpful" emails from him today.

Oh pukiness.

Hops

[Certain Hope]

((((((((Amber))))))))))  me, too...  under different terms and conditions, and yet an annoyance, a nuisance, a bother, often a disappointment, and a distraction to others who were supposed to pay homage only to the queen (after all, is that not the purpose of their presence in this life?)

"Only if I could perfectly mimic my mom's reality, range of emotion, core beliefs... was I "perfect" enough to be acknowledged, accepted, loved." 

"THIS is how I came to have such a rigid sense of "how I had to be"; this is the genesis of the inner critic; holding myself to a higher standard than normal people... always walking a tightrope."

Yes. Exactly.

Thank you, too, Amber... as always, you've brought so many loose thoughts together for me within my own mind... still boggles my mind... and yet, it's becoming just another part of the fabric of what was my life. It was not me, just a life I tried to live, for somebody else... for a whole string of somebody elses. It's so weird to think of myself as someone I used to know... or think I knew... a distant memory that became obsolete... and be glad of the certainty that all of that has been made new at last.

Carolyn

[Certain Hope]

Amber,

You've been given the opportunity to travel full circle... and yet at a higher altitude this time, above the clouds.
That's how it feels to me, too.

I've relocated so far away from my roots that it's not likely I'll have such an encounter as what you've described... and yet, similar realizations arrive almost daily, as I recognize similarities between people-present and folks from my past.
So very often I think to myself - okay, so this is what I would have learned at age __ , if I'd had the resources and mirroring.
And even typing that last sentence here now, it strikes me - - - there's a word missing, and that word is "only".
The "(if) only" is missing from my very thoughts, as is the "should have"... because what was is gone... and that's okay.

The now is just as you said... a course of discovery, with the certainty of finding the treasured gems which will decorate the lives we choose to live.  Ahh... that is freedom.

Looking forward to hearing more about the rest of your realizations, as you are able/choose to share.

Carolyn

[Certain Hope]

hiya Hope,

The "(if) only" is missing from my very thoughts, as is the "should have"... because what was is gone... and that's okay.

Oh  my! I can see that they are missing from me too. Why did I not see that? I think I am slower at recognizing my changes. There are probably more than I can say, as I do feel sooo good re the N 'assault'.

I am now moving into another area about which I must think long and hard and sensibly. There will be a thread when I am ready.

Love
Izzy

Hey, Izzy... that is awesome! Thanks for sharing this with me!
So many changes and developments I don't recognize myself, till I see myself say them here on this board. Don't seem to have the focus or patience for journaling these days... plus... well, just seems I've been stuck inside my own head plenty long enough, so...
this is it, for me. Also, there are just some folks here in whom I'm able to recognize some of my own illusive thoughts and feelings... and I'm afraid I'd go in reverse by trying to sift it all privately.
 There was a "N sighting" today in our area, after many months of no visual contact (my son saw N driving down the road nearby), and when he told me of it, I realized... I don't care. Can't yet say that I feel so good about it, but I don't feel shaken either... so that's progress.

I'll be watching for your thread, whenever you're ready, Izzy...

Love,
Carolyn

[sKePTiKal]

I wanted to bump this topic up again, because I'm back connecting the dots between attachment theory, dissociation, and L/R brain neurobiology & neuropsychology.

There is a LOT of really, really good stuff in this thread and I'm going re-open this topic, I think, later on in a new thread. This is excellent background material and I'm still immensely grateful to Carolyn for the original topic.

[Certain Hope]

Hi Amber,

I'm glad you did. It was good for me to read over it all again... one of the most amazing finds of all to me, back when I was searching.

Funny, I'm off work today and was coming by here to post something... and there was this. Thank you!

What I was gonna post is about an episode of Kitchen Nightmares, with Gordon Ramsey. The one I saw last night was at the Secret Garden restaurant, in Cali.
Manager's name is Michele... a Frenchman and, I believe, a pathological narcissist.
It just really struck me anew that there's such a huge difference between the ordinary self-involved, pompous, arrogant egomaniac...
and pathological NPD.
This guy is the latter, imo.
For instance, Gordon spiffs up the whole joint, as usual, and invites an important food critic for the night.
The place is packed and everybody seems pleased with the food... except the food critic. Her fish is way too salty.
Gee, I wonder how that happened.
I bet Michele slathered that filet with salt himself, just so he could "prove" to Gordon that Ramsey's new menu was no good.
Next scene, Michele is out on the floor, coaxing the critic to allow him another chance to prove himself... and blaming the trouble on the new menu.
What does he want to offer her?  One of his decayed old menu items.
I mean, it was so obvious...
he would sabotage the entire operation rather than admit that he was wrong and Gordon Ramsey was right.

So very familiar.

Also, talked with my mother the other day.
She set off a frenzy of calls from my older daughters, claiming that the phone number she had for me is disconnected.
We went with new cell phones last April.
I coulda sworn I'd talked with her since then.
oops.
heh.
She hasn't changed.
But I do want to review my few posts from the past year and see whether I'd mentioned talking with her, cuz if I did, I'm sure to have posted about it.

Take care.

Carolyn

[lighter]

Hi Carolyn....::waving::

Haven't seem you posting in a while.

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

"Both physical and emotional boundary development are harmed by distance violations, not just intrustion violations."

The Loss of Unconditional Security and Self-Worth

Internalized shame becomes the foundation of a person's trauma.

To live with shame is to feel alienated and defeated, never quite good enough to belong.
It is an isolating experience that makes us think we are completely alone and unique in our belief that we are unlovable.

Secretly, we feel like we are to blame. Any and all deficiency lies within ourselves.Gershen Kaufman, author of Shame: The Power of Caring, said - "shame is without parallel, a sickness of the soul."

Underneath layers of shame you will find that abandonment is at the foundation.
This abandonment is most often experienced through various forms of rejection, rejection that has been colored by parental words and actions, some subtle, some not so subtle.

It is useful to visualize a continuum, with acceptance at one end, rejection at the other end,
and many shades of emotional unavailability or parental indifference to your needs and wants somewhere between.

About Changing Course -

To change course, be it a minor shift or a major turn in your life,
does not mean giving up who you are -
it means letting go of who you are not.
It means letting go of your pain.
You are not your pain.


and lastly, my own words... quoted by Carolyn:

"Only if I could perfectly mimic my mom's reality, range of emotion, core beliefs... was I "perfect" enough to be acknowledged, accepted, loved." 

Had the chance last Saturday to prove to myself, that I'm not one I should distrust, the one I should fear is crazy or "not all there"; I'm not the one with the difficult or secret "problem". I spoke with my mom... and when I didn't play into any of her drama, suspicions about my SIL and denied her validation of her paranoias and delusions....

she launched into a verbal/emotional attack on me. Spewed out disdain, resentment, anger at me - because I'm an independent, self-determined person - as if that were a bad thing.

She revealed herself in that attack and made it undeniably clear to me, that what I've been suffering from all along is a disorganized, disturbed attachment to my mother. That she so successfully projected her feelings into me, that I became locked in this inner conflict between being her (which I didn't much like) or being myself - for which I'd be "punished" emotionally with the same kind of verbal assault ------ or emotional abandonment.

This unstable attachment affected the balance of my L/R brain "center of gravity" - all my life. But I was functioning and developing up until the trauma I suffered at 12 - because I had other adults in my environment. Some time AFTER all the trauma - I "lost" these people... and my mother went to great lengths to isolate me for a time from all outside contact. This around my "shunned" experience. That isolation left me 100% vulnerable to her boundary/identity intrusions and control - and sent me into a crisis of attachment: where the person I was dependent on was frightening, impossible to please, demanded the impossible, and punished me excessively for being an individual - and not who she told me to be. The severe dissociation I experienced was separated time-wise from my trauma by some months and was due to this crisis. I was "together" enough immediately after the rape - to take steps to hide my brother & myself, provide for our comfort - until my mother came home. Far cry from dissociated.

Ultimately, I transferred that attachment to smoking. Smoking is a Lbrain enhancer and Rbrain inhibitor... and as such... kept my center of gravity in Lbrained experience - right where my mom insisted I be... no matter HOW uncomfortable I was being there. Lbrain is like a vinyl record album - experiences, rules, etc can be programmed into it quite easily and mine absorbed my mom's projections, her version of "me", and lots more.

But vinyl can be melted and new grooves cut (neuroplasticity)... new connections/working relationships between L & R brain can be forged. That's what I'm working on now. My return to my T for reassurance turned out to 2 sessions! In the first, she recommended I read Jill Bolte's Taylor's "Stroke of Insight" so we could discuss it. Before the next session, aftter reading it, I determined I wanted to ask if dissociation was a R-brain process - realized Google has answers - found a GREAT paper on type-D attachment & R-brain development....

realized that my Lbrain was spewing continued abuse that it learned from my mom at me.... and that all I had to do was "step to the right" as Jill recommends.... to turn that crap OFF.... once and for all.

More soon - I'm still finishing up my big project - but this has all settled enough for me to explain why this thread was so important to me.

[Gaining Strength]

That she so successfully projected her feelings into me, that I became locked in this inner conflict between being her (which I didn't much like) or being myself - for which I'd be "punished" emotionally with the same kind of verbal assault ------ or emotional abandonment.

This unstable attachment affected the balance of my L/R brain "center of gravity" - all my life. But I was functioning and developing up until the trauma I suffered at 12 - because I had other adults in my environment. Some time AFTER all the trauma - I "lost" these people... and my mother went to great lengths to isolate me for a time from all outside contact. This around my "shunned" experience. That isolation left me 100% vulnerable to her boundary/identity intrusions and control - and sent me into a crisis of attachment: where the person I was dependent on was frightening, impossible to please, demanded the impossible, and punished me excessively for being an individual - and not who she told me to be.

PR - this portion of your post applies completely and utterly to me, could have been written by me about me.  It is so powerful to read what you have written. 

Your words about shame is powerful as well.  I feel strongly validated by your writing.  I feel strengthened by it.  There before me are the words describing my wound and my diversion from my purpose.  I was sabotaged and made conjoined to my weak and wimpering mother out of fear of punishment for being myself and succeeding and flourishing.

Still searching for the key to unlock these manicles.  Still pursuing neuroplasticity to reroute my brain patterns.

I miss your regular posts they feed me.  Thanks - GS