Accepting Blame vs Accepting Responsibility

[reallyME]

Let's talk on this topic, shall we?

[Ami]

Can you explain more,Laura?                Ami

[alone48]

I think I understand.....I do both so well. You can blame me for the sun not shining today and I would accept it, but I take responsibility for what I say , do, and how it affects others. Blame serves no purpose other than to make the blamer feel good .Responsibility means you know you may have screwed up, now what do we do to fix it if necessary. Am I on the same track you were going on reallyMe?

[sunblue]

Uncle Phil says blame requires intent.  That is, you are to blame for a car accident if you intentionally stepped on the gas and sped your way through a red light.  Taking responsibility mean accepting circumstances as they are as a result of your actions, although they might not be intentional.  If you were on the car while on the cell phone and did not see a car coming around the corner and got into an accident, you take responsibility for your actions, but blame should not be assessed since it wasn't your intention to hurt or harm anyone.

Just FYI.

[reallyME]

Hey sunblue, were you watching Dr Phil today too?  Is that the Uncle you referred to?  What did you think of that mattress surfing and branding stuff? ugh

Yes, alone, you got it.  Blame is not necessary but taking responsiblity for one's actions is always necessary.  Narcissists have a real problem with accepting that they were responsible for how you feel or what happened.  they will do almost anything than admit their own fault in things.

~Laura

[sunblue]

Yup, I saw Uncle/Dr. Phil today.  Ridiculous, that mattress stuff.

I agree that Narcissists NEVER accept either blame or responsibility.  THey are perfect in their eyes and they assume everyone else perceives them as perfect.  Not long ago I had a general conversation with my Nmom talking about a situation regarding someone in the news.  The general topic was whether bad parenting contributed to the behaviors of the child.  My Nmom was adamant that she was a firm believer that parents aren't to blame for anything...nothing....She refuses to see any connection between the quality of parenting and the way a child turns out or adult problems they may have.  She would never admit to mistakes or anything that would indicate a lack of perfection.

It's interesting though.  With narcissists, especially Nparents, they gladly accept FULL responsibility for their children's behavior or actions when they are outwardly positive and reflect well on her.  For example, an Nparent will assume full responsibility when one of their children gets a great job, marries well, becomes a professional, looks great, etc.  But when the opposite is true, she accepts absolutely no responsibility at all.  Like selective memory, they ascribe to selective responsibility.

For those of us who are more self-aware, and who have delved into the "whys" and "hows" of our lives, this is extremely frustrating.  But above all else, Ns truly and really believe they are perfect, that they belong on a self-prescribed throne and that everyone else are their subjects who should bow at their feet.  So, there is just no way they would ever accept responsibility, let alone blame, for anything.

However, they are usually very, very quick to assign blame to others.  It's always someone else's fault....Not only do they assign blame, but they are disgusted by it.  They believe mistakes or weaknesses are far beneath them.  For they are PERFECT.  How dare anyone question that by asking them to accept responsibility or blame? 

So, as aggravating as it is, an N will acknowledge, let alone accept, responsiblity for their wrong doing.  If anything, they turn away, run away when someone tries to point out a connection between their hurtful behavior and the effect it has on a loved one's life.  That's why it is rare indeed to find a true N in a therapist's office for any length of time.

[alone48]

I've often wonder if an N never really understands how their actions are perceived or do they just swiftly switch gears. It is so hard to conceieve of NEVER understanding the emotions/havoc you cause. I think that is what I have the hardest time wrapping myself around where N"s are concerned. I want to believe they understand and chose to ignore, I KNOW .....it isn't so! How did the rest of you finally come to grips with this concept. I guess being somewhat new to this, I intellilectually understand but really still don't get it. I hope this doesn't sound like another one of my rants and that I explained it clear enough.

[sunblue]

In my view, it's not that Narcissists aren't aware.  It's just that other people---their pain, their problems, their interests---never enter their world.  The world revolves around the narcissist.  Even if they should let themselves have a moment when they become aware of someone else and their pain, it quickly passes....because the narcissist....SIMPLY DOES NOT CARE.  That moment is a moment away from them.  Everyone should focus only on them so they can't allow themselves or anyone else focus on someone other than themselves.

Narcissists aren't stupid.  They are manipulative and controlling and above all else, self-absorbed.  That's why they can't tolerate a situation in which they aren't the sole center of attention.  They are aware enough that they know other people exist in the world.  They just don't care about them and will do everything in their power to keep attention away from them.

[alone48]

Sun,

This helps alot. I often wondered why N never really wanted to know anything in depth about me....you have explained it well. He only knew what he projected to be me.

[finding peace]

Oy veigh – Sunblue,

Were we raised in the same family?  So much of what you post resonates with me!

The taking credit for the good – and dumping the bad back on us!

My F once said to me – you have disappointed me – you are just going to have to learn to live with that disappointment (at the time I responded – it is your disappointment not mine, you have to learn to live with it not me – he got the funniest look on his face – sorta like “does not compute, does not compute that you are a different person than me…my feelings are everyone’s feelings – does not compute” – ha!).

Of course, when I landed a good job he claimed he was going to write a book about how to be a good parent and raise good well-adjusted kids (didn’t have the courage to ask him if he was going to write about routinely terrifying your kids with physical violence and, oh yeah – let’s throw in some molestation too) – yeah dad way to parent – you should write a book.  Grandiosity?  Oh yes.

:::cynical snort:::::

They are unbelievable aren’t they?

Peace

On edit - ok - think I better go on over and take some notes from the forgiveness thread.......not feeling very forgiving tonight.....

[sunblue]

Finding....

Oh yeah...Did I forget to mention arrogance?  Ns are extraordinarily arrogant in my view.  It's not just the "does not compute" look.  It's the "you are too stupid to get it" look.  Having to defend their position, explain it, or even discuss it is far beneath them.  That's why they often respond with a snarl, a smirk or that knowing "poor, pathetic soul who is just too dumb to get it" look.

Yes, arrogance indeed.  They take full credit for anything good and either ignore, criticize or denigrate what they perceive as "bad" in their loved ones.  How very convenient.  In fact, that is exactly how I responded to my Nmom's comment that parents aren't to blame for anything.  How very convenient!  Because not only do Ns refuse to acknowledge or accept blame or responsibility, they also absolutely refuse to be put in situations where they perceive themselves to be judged by anyone.  They only feel comfortable in situations where they are in control of the results...where they are certain the people judging them will put them on a pedestal and wax eloquent on how perfect they are (in other words, fellow Ns or co-dependents.)

And yes, their memory is extremely selective.  They don't remember bad times or abuse.  In fact, if you ask them to recall events past, it is always in the context of very large, very rose-colored glasses.  It's as if they were watching a completely different movie than you were.

Sorry to say Finding and Alone....seems we come from similar worlds.....

[changing]

Dear Peace-

That was  a fantastic response and worthy of being  entered into the Revered Book of Anti-N, and being committed to memory by all acolytes!

Love,

Changing

[Hopalong]

Me too, CB.
I saw exactly those glimpses when I was close to Ns.

I felt such pity.
It looked like terror.

And I felt the same, they could not distinguish between responsibility and blame,
and a true ocean of shame would drown them if they tried to deal with it.

I really believe that's the core of N's troubles. And they do suffer.

But their victims must take care of themselves, because that suffering
is not the same as pangs of conscience.

thank you for once again seeing so deeply, CB...

love,
Hops

[reallyME]

CB: I know that there are psychopaths who have no conscience--but I have wondered if some N's are actually so shame filled that they can hardly function unless they repress all of it.

Yes, I have to agree on this one!

This whole thread was so filled with TRUTH about these dysfunctional people in our lives, that I found myself wanting to call out NAMES and say I HOPE YOU ARE LURKING AND READING EVERY BIT OF THIS, X.  THIS IS WHAT YOU DID TO ME!  THIS WAS YOUR BEHAVIOR AND WE ALL HAVE YOU "NAILED" ON IT NOW!  YOU WILL NEVER HURT US AGAIN!

Alas though, I left x with a blessing the last time she came to this board...her and her cohorts.  I must not undo that sentiment...or maybe I already did.  sorry, these people just really need to FEEL a smidgen of what they do to people, if they are to ever get free of it all.

~just my thoughts

~Laura

[Overcomer]

It is easier to place blame then to accept responsibility.