Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Been thinking about Father's Day
Anonymous:
Dawning,
I also had to learn about male-female interactions the hard way. My parents didn't talk about it. I don't think they knew anything anyway. This guy may feel studly right now but that won't last long.
How I would act around him: polite, pleasant, and I'd pay very little attention to him. I would appear busy and happy.
bunny
Dawning:
Hello everyone. I just woke up again at the crack of dawn - been happening alot lately. In trying to make sense of what has recently happened in my life... I think I am needy for the friendship of females and I don't have any where I live so I tried (without fully knowing) to substitute a younger guy- who told me he was thinking about being a monk -as a *girlfriend.* Who knows what he was thinking and I will probably never know - just like with dad - but the sense of loss I feel for the friendship is just as acute as the sense of loss I feel at having given away my power to him. The best thing I can do now is try and make some western girlfriends here with common interests (i'm in asia, btw.) Maybe if I had that to begin with, I could have seen the way things were headed with me and this guy and could have felt less lonely and more secure - secure enough to talk with him about who I really am than just to be happy that I was having a good time with someone who didn't want to get down my pants at the first available opportunity. But now the sex happened and there will never be any going back. As a result, he feels empowered, I think, and I feel even more alone and vulnerable especially since he lives near me and so do his mates.
I want to say thank you to all who have posted thus far. Bunny, you have been and continue to be a great help. Your last post certainly made me feel less alone and the advice has been invaluable esp since I felt that you were not judging me for my weakness. I will never be able to be one of the guys, that is a definite. How can it be possible that, by being friends with a girlfriend-substitute - that I became one of the guys with his mates (much more macho than him...until now :o ) until they found out that we had sex and now I feel disrespected by them. It is bizarre but that is how it feels to me. I want to write and tell him that it is not as simple as me "liking him more than he likes me.* I really did think of him as I would a girlfriend - opening up and talking about things. But he doesn't seem to feel a loss and I do :?: :?: And - funnily enough - this is pretty close to what I had with parents. Dad completely unavailable at all levels and mom really chatty when she needed to chat and unavailable if she had other things to do. Maybe I should take a class or go to a community center to study something. It is sad, I feel like I have lost a friend and did I mention that the intimacy between us was real while it was there - briefly - but now that is gone too. :cry: :cry: I am coming to believe that he questioned his own sexuality. And now he certainly doesn't. But what I gave him was a gift and he doesn't see it that way. He got his self-validation. Once you have sex with a man, there is never any going back.
Anonymous:
Dawning,
Your insight that you substituted him for a female friend is very useful. Now you realize what you really need. I wouldn't write him about this insight, it is useless and he can't help you anyway. He still isn't a girlfriend.
That "monk" line sounds really suspicious. I wonder if he's used it before to hook women. Seducing a monk is a pretty nifty fantasy, and he may have realized its potential (i.e., the woman would believe she is the "only one", and if she singlehandedly "turns him off" of celibacy, that makes her pretty powerful).
bunny
P.S. Thanks for your kind comments.
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: nassim ---
And by and large, men will not do what women won't permit. They (women) are in large part the civilizing force of civilization.
Sorry if I disturbed you. I was trying to make clear the usual reality. And it is the usual reality even though it's not your reality.
--- End quote ---
Hi Nassim,
Thanks for clarrifying. I will agree that we can all express out views here without being choked and I am glad that you understand. I will put on my intellectual cap on tonight.
But my point is I am not happy the way the majority of the world sees things. For example you call women the 'civilising force' and I am afraid thats how still many of us sees things. Men places woman on a pedestal and it becomes so common and over the time it becomes 'real'. I think such perceptions should change if at all men and women are going to SHARE the responsibility when it comes to feelings/sex etc. I think placing women in such pedestal actually makes women idolised and idealised while it relieves men from that responsibility. We have done it for centuries and isn't it time that we start deconstructing these ? Isnt that the direction we need to spend our energy and not the other way ?
Why don't men take a bit of responsibility and put themselves in a pedestal and treasure their body and their privates ? Wont that makes things more liek a platteau rather than having to 'climp up' that pedestal knock on the door to ask permission, and if given waved down to those who havent climbed ' hey you suckers.. look at me I have conquerred" etc It will give women a break aswell.. sex would be like a 'home' with a couple in it ( where everything.. the fun to the responsibilities belongh to both ) rather than a host (female) and a guest (male).. sounds more like a B&B dosnt it ? How do we get there? by not re-enforse and idealise women as the safeguardians of emotions and feelings and the keyholders to sex.. but to deconstruct such ideas ?
--- Quote ---
I will say that men of an idealist temperment are much more "feeling" and I don't consider that they are not men. But most men are not the equivilent of women in terms of emotion. There are biological differences between men and women which can not be denied. And saying most men are simple doesn't imply being stupid at all. In fact in some ways I think men are more emotionally intelligent than women.
--- End quote ---
Well for me emotions are common. I come from a cultural background ( historically ) where it is easier to understand and see the soul as both male and female which in fact makes our soul a more neutral entity rather than distinguishing it on the basis of biological differences. Somehow I believe ( I am not sure if any one can prove it for sure either way ) that our present perception of 'feelings' being based on biological differences is more of a culturally constructed one. So fingers crossed thereaswell.
I will end my rant here but I wish we could have a decent debate on this.. because I find this topic interesting.
Spirit
nassim:
Spirit,
I'm sorry but I don't quite understand what you are saying and what you are debating. I look at things in a very general way because that's my personality style....instead of not being able to see the forest for the trees, I can't see the trees for the forest. And you are talking about your specific world view and I'm talking about a general view.
In short, I'm not sure what we're talking about anymore. I'm not trying to be dense. But I don't quite take your point and how it is germain to the problem of the poster on this thread. She obviously was a one night stand and was treated poorly by a young man with ill intentions or no intentions.
Unfortunately, this is an all too common occurance and women get hurt in the process.
BTW I have always been too shy to be a cad. My wife and I are equal in all things.....sexually, spiritually. I don't thinks there's any other way to be.
But the reality is that men (especially young men) have a biological imperative to have a lot of sex. I don't think that's a construct. It's what keeps the species going.
More men would be on this board if there was absolutely NO difference between the male and female psyche. Just an example of course.
Nassim
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