How to deal with a visit from an N

[Violet]

I know you guys are right.  It's just not easy.  I'm non-confrontational by nature and upbringing.  Even my father told me that this time around I needed to stop playing by the rules of game that N has never even heard of.

Fighting makes me feel ill. I just so much wish I did not have this person in my life.  Life is hard enough without dealing with this guy's garbage.

I know I could drop N like a bag of dirt.  Isn't it funny that the one with such a long rap sheet of offenses, is the one who dang near invites people with his obnoxious behavior to tear him apart?  That trait alone convinces me that my father in-law is not just a jerk, but that there is something pathologically wrong with him.  I mean, why on earth would you do virtually everything in your power to make the one thing you fear most come true????

[Anonymous]

Violet,

My husband was very submissive toward his N mother. There were always excuses for her behavior ("She's in physical pain," "She didn't use to be like this," "She's lonely," &etc.) I understood his childhood history with her; I understood the dynamics; I "got" the whole picture.

Guess what: We were in marriage counseling and every therapist told us the same thing. That he had to put HIS WIFE FIRST and his MOTHER SECOND. They all advised that he should honor his wife and marriage first.

I thought I had a MIL from hell (she is thankfully deceased) but your in-laws take the cake. They wouldn't get past my front door even if I looked like an evil witch and the meanest person in town. I think your neighbors would even thank you for turning them away.

I think it's time for you and and your husband to take back your home and not let these buffoons have the run of it while you meekly escape to other places. Honor your home. Honor your privacy. Honor your marriage.

That's it.

bunny

[Violet]

There have been times, especially early on in our marriage and only in the actual presence of his parents, that I felt like a second priority.  We were able to talk about this however and came to a better understanding.

Since my husband doesn't participate in their weirdness and he is often mortified by their behavior, I don't really feel like he puts them above me or our marriage.  In fact, I often think that - well, how to say this - that he reacts to them as if he were not their son, but their son in-law.

He never makes excuses for them and he never has. He usually says to me things like, "I'm sorry my parents are such freaks."  I keep trying to break him of accepting blame and responsibility for them, but they taught him from an early age to do this and it is one tough habit to break.

In addition to their father's N antics, their mother did something different and which I consider deeply wrong.  She encouraged the boys to take the blame for anything and everything, because their father was "too sensitive" to handle it.  Like when she discouraged her eldest son from quitting peewee football because as she said, "your father probably won't have much to do with you anymore."  Her son continued to play even though he was much smaller than the other boys and afraid. Two weeks later he was hospitalized after he got a concussion on the field. The coach, not his parents, finally said "enough is enough."  

To be honest, this upcoming visit took both us by surprise.  After they left this Christmas, my husband said he would understand if I decided never to see them again.  I told him that I would never invite them to my home again and that I was never going up to visit them again if I could possibly help it.   None of this was said in anger and having decided this, we figured that we could get away without seeing them for a year before they next visited.

My SiL says they are coming down because it's easier on them to be united against us than tearing each other apart in the privacy of their own home.

Short of actually moving and leaving no forwarding address (ha, ha), I'm not sure how to keep them out.  I'm really not exaggerating when I say that they will come anyway. What do I do when I open my door and see them standing there - clutching all their clothes and toiletries in plastic grocery bags, since they are too cheap to buy luggage?  Use that great Jack Nicholson line, "Sorry, we're all stocked up on crazy here"?

[Anonymous]

Violet,

Your husband is putting them ahead of you and his marriage when he allows them to stay for two weeks against your wishes. Anger is not what I'm talking about. There are ways to put parents ahead of spouses without any anger being involved.

What I'd do at this point: *be out of town* when they come. The house is closed, locked. If I didn't do this, I might rent some attack dogs to keep them away (seriously). I would simply not let them in the door, no matter how many bags they had. That's right! They have lost the privilege of entering my home. That's how I'd see it.

well, good luck..

bunny

[nassim]

Violet,

I think it is telling that you keep referring to your husband and his brothers as boys. Men put their wife and kids first...boys are still clinging to Mommy and Daddy. Please don't get offended, I'm just pointing out something that hit me between the eyes when I read your posts. And Bunny's post is correct. He should put you first. Mom and Dad way second.

I know dealing with an N isn't easy. I wouldn't open the door to these people. You have to set boundries. They can stay at a hotel and your husband must handle this. It is his place to deal with his family. Your doing it shows that he can't handle it and puts him in the little boy position.

Please know, no offense intended.

Nassim

[jaded]

nassim,

I just wanted to say that personally I do not get offended by anything that you say.  You are simply stating how you feel and you seem to be doing so in a very forthcoming, non aggressive manner.  What more can a person do then to offer their thoughts and feelings.  If they are not the same as anybody else then I believe that is what is called personal point of view and if somebody else has a different thought process, then they are as free to share it as you are.

Sometimes it is hard to hear some peoples replies because it is not the answer we are looking for.  Its kinda like a woman asking someone, "do I look good in this outfit?"  Of course they want you to say "why yes you look marvelous in that outfit."  Even if they dont, they need to hear they are lookin spiffy.  I myself would rather someone speak the truth whether it be, hell ya you look great in that outfit or ummm, not looking to good in that get up.  I ask peoples opinions to get their opinion, not to seek reinforcement for my insecurities.

IMHO and that wont get ya very far cause its just my opinion, not the law of the land.

[Anonymous]

nassim is right again.

bunny

[les]

Violet

You understand the dynamics of your family so well. I can see you have spent considerable time trying to figure it all out. You've got it!  That is an excellent beginning but without real ACTION you are just spinning.

 What I have learned, quite recently, is that there comes a time for ACTION and for you, that time is NOW. When people make you physically sick and emotionally exhausted you must act. You must honour yourself.  This is not selfish at all... it is basic survival.

 Two years ago, my sister said, "It's HER (my Nmother) or you. You must decide. SHe has had her life and is destroying yours.' 'I have no doubt that the kind of stress N's put on others is like a vicious assault. You don't see the bruises but the internal damage, pyschological and physical is immense.

Possible actions:

1. Ask your husband to discuss the situation with his mother. (Surely she must see what a jerk her husband is)  He must explain that your family cannot take the strain any more. Wouldn't she like a break from this guy?
Possibly she could come for a short visit but from what you've said this would be an invitation that would be deliberately misread and abused.

2.  Write a letter. Could begin with...'for whatever reasons, it is clear that our visits together put a strain on everyone. We don't think this is healthy for any of us and so propose the following....very clear, black and white.

3. I don't know your financial circumstances but if they simply show up, march them over to a cheap motel, pay for 2 nights and let them know that's it.  There are no other options.

4. As Bunny and others have said, do not let them in your house.  Steal yourself for the fury, pouting and carry on but stick to your guns.  Let them know in advance so there is no misunderstanding at the door.

Oh Violet, I feel for you so much. I understand that you and your husband are kind- hearted souls and it must seem like the most offensive thing to possibly do.  

But do it you must.
Les

[Anonymous]

Whooooeeee, Violet!

I'm getting riled just reading your posts!  Ugh, ugh, ugh!  So you're Rome and the Visigoths are coming.  This is absolutely invasive.  

We all recognize Big Bad N, but MIL is also participating in the abuse of the two grown sons.  She probably has no choice because if he doesn't get his way, he's gotta take it out on somebody...it's hard to accept that mom might be a full participant when she's all you've got to hang onto the idea that you were loved.  But enough.  She has made her choices.  N is using her as the bait to pull the sons in for more abuse.  

You can move into a hotel temporarily and lock all your doors when you expect them.  Just don't be around to receive them as they storm the castle.  No confrontation (until later)...but it would send a message.  So what if they camp on your front lawn?  I think I would understand if my neighbors didn't let unwelcome crazy people in...Your neighbors would probably call the cops for you.  Well, just an idea...desperate times call for desperate measures.  

I'm with Jaded.  If you respect me, I'll respect you.  I give everybody the benefit of doubt (bad hair day, etc) but three strikes you're out.  Funny thing about some abusers: the only thing they respect is abuse!    So what if he goes into a hissy fit?  Too bad.  It's like facing the dragon.  It's all a lot of hot air.  If they don't tell you when they will leave, pack up their stuff for them and throw them out.  Have the phone in your hand and say you will call the police if they don't leave.  They are abusing you now too.  

I don't care if this guy was abused, it doesn't give him the right to abuse anybody else!  You may want to read Elder Rage to know you are not alone in coping with an aging abusive b*****d.  It isn't really a "help" book per se, but the story is cathartic.  Good luck!!!  Seeker

[Anonymous]

Oops, sorry to repeat what some others have said...it took a while for my internet connection to come back up before this went through.    

Take care Violet.  Seeker

[Violet]

The Visigoths are coming! Ha, ha, ha, that so cracked me up!

I've got to run, but I thought I needed to clarify something. When I first started talking about my husband and his brother, I couldn't figure out given the anonymity of this forum, a way to pronoun them. I tried "men," but then some of the statements I made sounded like I was talking about men in general. So, I went with "boys," even realizing as I did what the implications might be. Maybe I'll stick with the "brothers."

Having said that, it's true that both brothers fall into patterns set when they were children when they are in their parents' presence. I think most of us, to some degree or another, do that. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing either. For instance, I don't cuss around my parents because they don't like it.  However, there is obviously a line and more times than not, it seems, in dysfunctional relationships that line is crossed far too often and for all the wrong reasons.

After reading about some of the violence and just really horrible things N's have done to most of the people in this group, well, it puts things in perspective for me.  The father in-law is atrocious, but even his behavior pales in comparison to some of the things I have read here.

Go out and enjoy your weekend, everybody! That's the best revenge!!

[Violet]

I knew it!  

Remember how I said, neither my husband or I could figure out why the in-laws were returning to the scene of the crime, er, our house for another two week visit??

I was talking to my SiL and I heard some racket in the background and asked what it was.  She said the in-laws were there - again.  In the last two months, they have visited my SiL and BiL four times. Since they live closer to each other the visits consisted of long weekends.

Why? I asked. I mean, that's way more than usual.

My SiL said that they had apparently ticked off the N's sister and her husband.  After they moved to the same town after retirement, they made the sister and her husband their best friends. Well, finally, apparently, N's sister flat out told him he needed to change or else.

Now, N is telling everyone, that his sister "doesn't approve of his lifestyle."

Lifestyle? Being an ass is a lifestyle?? Who knew?!

Anyway - that's really why they are coming down here. Whenever N pushes people to the edge, he usually visits/calls all his other N supply buddies and runs down the person who was so heartlessly mean to him.

I just knew there was a reason.

I feel like I oughta get one of those bumperstickers that says, "It's not paranoia if people are really out to get you!"  

Maybe it's just a quirk of my own favorite N, but he never does anything without an ulterior motive.  Given that this is the motive du jour, what would you all say when he arrives and begins tearing down his sister and her husband??

[nassim]

Violet,

Sorry. I'm all out of exasperated here. Why do you let these people come to your home? Did you invite them? And if you didn't, you have some "splaining" to do to us who are are trying to help you. You have gotten some good advice. Are you going to thwart this circus or not?

I'm getting impatient with you dearest blessing Violet. You are the flower of our hearts and you're letting some crummy insects eat away at your beautiful petals.

Nassim

[Anonymous]

...what would you all say when he arrives and begins tearing down his sister and her husband??

"Let's change the subject."

bunny

[Violet]

Hey Nassim,

I have gotten good advice here and I do appreciate it. And even my wee petals are getting exasperated.

When it comes right down to it, however, neither of us are ready to take that next step. Even I, as much as I've come to loathe my father in-law,  find the idea of cutting them off anathema.

Part of the reason this is so, is because I have a really great marriage. I love the hell out of my husband, we're best friends, I love our life together.  His parents are the one thing that drives me crazy and let's face it, even though they're awful, I'm also a whiner.  I can pull on my big girl britches and deal with them.