Evil?

[Ami]

I could use some advice. To the people who are offended that I have a relationship with my M---an N--please don't respond. A relationship with an N can be navigated in different ways for different people . I would like the respect to do it my own way.
  This is what happened. I have been trying to heal my stomach aches, which are caused by trying to avoid 'shame".My friend helped me to get a big piece of the puzzle. When my Aunt told me that she thought I was fine, emotionally, I got a bad stomach ache .
  My friend told me that it was my 'punishing myself" for being normal before  my M could punish me. How freaking bleh is that?
  I realized that my friend was right.
  Yesterday,I was talking to my M. She knew that I had had these stomach aches. She told me ,on her last visit, that I was  too thin, so she knows I have been struggling with this , very badly.
 Well, she said," *I* know why you are having the stomach aches."I said,'Why?"
  She gave me the exact answer my friend did. She KNEW all along what and how she was destroying me,but she never tried to help me out of it by TELLING me the truth.
 After I got off the phone, the evil of it hit me. In know that we, with N parents, have to touch and taste a measure of evil that people should not have to taste with their own parents(IMO)
 Maybe I am wrong, but I can't see my Aunt being "evil" to her kids. I can't see it.
 Anyway, to the people I annoy,please don't respond b/c I am hurting from an N M---whether or not I have contact or not. I almost died from the effects of an N M. I have every right to be here and to tell my story. 
 I appreciate any responses.                  Ami

[Certain Hope]

Dear Ami,

I'm not offended by you or your choices. Not annoyed, either.

Could you please clarify your question here? I hear you asking for advice and responses, but with regard to what exactly?


Thanks!

With love,
Carolyn

[Leah]

I could use some advice. To the people who are offended that I have a relationship with my M---an N--please don't respond

Dear Ami,

Please know, that at no time have I been offended by you having a relationship with your NMother. 

You are an individual person with a right to choose, as is your freedom of choice, and your voice, as you, Ami.

As for me personally, I am in No Contact with my NM, and Limited Contact with my NFather, as is my personal choice and decision.

Of course, you have every right to be here and tell your story, and, as such, sincerely, I am concerned that you may be feeling otherwise, and wondering why exactly.  Have you been told different?

You have the freedom of choice in all aspects of your own personal life, and of course, more so, here too, with your healing journey.

Love, Leah

[mudpuppy]

Ami,

  I suspect the difference is your friend thought you were behaving incorrectly by punishing yourself whereas your M probably believes you are doing the right thing because you deserve it. She's not going to 'help you out' when she think's it's appropriate.
  Ns always believe others around them deserve punishment to keep them in line.

mud

[Leah]

Dear Ami,

Realization, that your M is a therapist, of some 20 years, I seem to recall you saying.

So, M pronounces with an air of N Superiority "I knew that you had stomach aches"

Of course M would know, because, she is equipped to know, from her own clients life experience and voice!

Yes, that is evil.

My M is not a therapist, however, she told me on the phone way back, what I was feeling, and my research proved that she knew
exactly how I was feeling inside, from her Gaslighting work on me!!!

Yes, that was evil.

Some don't like the word evil, but, to me personally, it presents no issue, as some people, sadly, cunningly think up evil things to do.

The realization and validation you have now, is that your M is sitting on the outside looking in, knowing exactly what you are going through and how you feel.

That is not a nice feeling to have, I know, because, I had that feeling too, from my N Mother.

Anxiety and Stomach Ache for you, Ami.

The Shame belongs to your M ...... not you, so you can choose to give it back to her, she owns it.

Love, Leah

PS >>> I apologize to everyone here on the board for using that choice of word. 

[Certain Hope]

Dear Ami,

Realization, that your M is a therapist, of some 20 years, I seem to recall you saying.

So, M pronounces with an air of N Superiority "I knew that you had stomach aches"

Of course M would know, because, she is equipped to know, from her own clients life experience and voice!

Yes, that is evil.

Dear Ami and Leah,

I am not prepared to pronounce what is evil and what is not - if that is indeed the question here.

It would help alot to have heard the context in which your mother spoke this statement to you, Ami...
did she raise the topic out of the blue?
what was her tone?

Also, my understanding of her statement was not that she was telling you she's always known you have stomach aches,
but rather that she now knows why you are having stomach aches.  Since you've been married and away from your family home for many years, I don't know how much contact you've had with your mother re: the state of your health/weight/stomach... but all of those factors would come into play here, I think. That's why I asked for more clarification... because I don't want to assume anything about what exactly transpired in your conversation with your mother or how much informationg she actually possesses about you and your condition. You see... I am well aware of how my own expectations of people have often given me a slanted view of them... specifically my presumptions of their mind-reading ability, which of course, is fantasy thinking.

Thanks for listening to my explanation of why I did not want to be quick to comment here.

Love,
Carolyn


P.S.  I addressed this to you, Leah, as well... because you may be absolutely correct in your assessment! I just don't feel any certainty of that and so didn't want to come across as saying that I contradict your view of what's happening... just I really can't say for sure.

[Leah]

P.S.  I addressed this to you, Leah, as well... because you may be absolutely correct in your assessment! I just don't feel any certainty of that and so didn't want to come across as saying that I contradict your view of what's happening... just I really can't say for sure.

Dear Carolyn,

What assessment ???

I shared my own experience with my N M with freedom of expressing using my own choice of word(s) and including Ami's word fo Evil.

There are many threads on the board with the word Evil included, as thread topic titles, and as postings, I checked first, out of consideration and care.

Now, I must check to see how I may be perceived as having made an assessment, which I would never consider doing.

Thought we were sharing and discussing, that's all.

Love, Leah 

She knew that I had had these stomach aches. She told me ,on her last visit

PS >>> going to edit the word evil.

[SilverLining]

  She gave me the exact answer my friend did. She KNEW all along what and how she was destroying me,but she never tried to help me out of it by TELLING me the truth.
 

I wouldn't take her word about what she actually knew.   At least in my experience this believing they KNEW things is part of the standard N repertoire of behaviors.  The need to feel right and knowledgeable leads them to distort their own memories and perceptions.  My N-autistic father does it all the time.   No matter what happens, he claims he knew it was going to happen in advance.   I think it's a sort of a God complex.  Knowledge makes them powerful and keeps them from realizing what they can't (or couldn't) control.   

Just recently I had a cousin die of unnatural causes (as yet undetermined) and when my father called me to give me the news, he claimed he KNEW it was going to happen.  Well it seems kind of evil of him to know something and not do anything to prevent it happening.  But of course he never actually knew anything.  He's just making this false claim in the present moment. 

So I'd say your mothers actions are definitely N-ish, but I wouldn't jump to believing her past actions were consciously evil.  She's just an N being an N and this sort of distortion is typical. 









   

[Certain Hope]

Dear Leah,

I'm sorry. I didn't expect you to react so strongly, or I probably wouldn't have said a thing. Clearly I didn't word my post properly. I got the idea that you were making an assessment based on these words of yours:

So, M pronounces with an air of N Superiority "I knew that you had stomach aches"

It was not your use of the word evil which led me to the thought that you'd made an assessment, but rather the above phrase.

Re: the use of the word evil, I agree that some people do lie on their beds plotting such... I was simply saying that I was not prepared on this thread to pronounce what is evil and what is not.

Again, I'm sorry for creating a stir, if that's an appropriate term. I just felt (and still do feel) that there are many unanswered questions relating to what actually transpired between Ami and her mother and I did not want to assume anything.

Love,
Carolyn

[Certain Hope]

One further note of explanation.

I just read the post by tjr100 (hi, tjr) and agree completely!

The only difference is, I did not read and understand what Ami posted in the same way that I see you did, tjr.

Whew, it's hard to explain in typing, but I hear Ami saying, "My mother gave me the exact answer my friend did"

and then I hear Ami extrapolating, assuming, guessing, from that... that her mother has always known the problem.

Hopefully Ami will clarify.

Sorry again about my confusion.

Carolyn

[Ami]

Dear Carolyn and Leah,
  Thank you for those words. Here is my question,Carolyn. My M is a therapist. She does know "some" things,by virtue of being a therapist for over 20 years.
 When she visited, I was complaining of putting my emotional pain ,in to my stomach. She told me that I had to figure out WHAT I was doing.
  Now , I realize that she KNEW ,all along, what the answer to the problem was,but wouldn't tell me or help me b/c the problem was rooted in how SHE treated me. Do you understand what I am saying?      Love    Ami

[Leah]

Dear Leah,

I'm sorry. I didn't expect you to react so strongly, or I probably wouldn't have said a thing. Clearly I didn't word my post properly. I got the idea that you were making an assessment based on these words of yours:

So, M pronounces with an air of N Superiority "I knew that you had stomach aches"

It was not your use of the word evil which led me to the thought that you'd made an assessment, but rather the above phrase.

Re: the use of the word evil, I agree that some people do lie on their beds plotting such... I was simply saying that I was not prepared on this thread to pronounce what is evil and what is not.

Again, I'm sorry for creating a stir, if that's an appropriate term. I just felt (and still do feel) that there are many unanswered questions relating to what actually transpired between Ami and her mother and I did not want to assume anything.

Love,
Carolyn

Dear Carolyn,

No stir, no problem.

I wrote of MY own experience in my posting, which you may have not read, or misinterpreted, with MY N Mother which Ami can use, if she

wishes, to resonate, or not, as she discerns from MY explanation of handing the Shame to MY N Mother who owns it, now I.

My experience is very real with all MY N Mother did to me, in every genre and aspect.

Ami will write of how appertains to her experience from what I have shared as my understanding, as she wishes, or not.

I am not a fixer or a doing person or an assessor.  

My current career choice more than satisfies me and fulfills me, and quite simply, I don't have the time, nor the inclination, or need.

Hope that explains, me, as a person.

And, I am relieved that Ami has other posters, who most likely, are more geared up to sharing their experience and insight, as a guide for her.

Now I will away to continue working through my own work of 'shame dumping' as per my thread posting earlier.    

Lots to do for my journey.

Love, Leah

[Certain Hope]

Dear Carolyn and Leah,
  Thank you for those words. Here is my question,Carolyn. My M is a therapist. She does know "some" things,by virtue of being a therapist for over 20 years.
 When she visited, I was complaining of putting my emotional pain ,in to my stomach. She told me that I had to figure out WHAT I was doing.
  Now , I realize that she KNEW ,all along, what the answer to the problem was,but wouldn't tell me or help me b/c the problem was rooted in how SHE treated me. Do you understand what I am saying?      Love    Ami

Thank you, Ami.

What I am hearing you say is that your mother did not tell you that she'd always known what was wrong with your stomach.

Is that correct?  Once that is known, then I can comment more completely.

When you say that she now, on the phone, has given you the exact answer you got from your friend, could you please share what were your mother's words?

Love,
Carolyn

[Ami]

Dear Leah, Carolyn, tjr100 and Mud
  My last post was out of context. I have a "brain overload" at the moment, so I will come back later and try to take in all that you so, generously, ,wrote to me.
 I think that I will call her,too, and see what she says. Thank you so much for your help. It is greatly appreciated.    Love   Ami

[Certain Hope]

You're welcome, Ami.

Praying it goes well.

Love,
Carolyn