the spiritual impact of N mothering

[Jessie]

I have had loads of therapy and am much recovered from my N mothering. I now 'manage' her quite well. I am happy with good kids and a good relationship. But I have always felt lost spiritually. Up until the last year or two even the word God made me sneer cynically - 'what God?' The reading I have done talks about the fact that our mother is our first spiritual connection and if she is not there for us how can we trust that there is anything/one looking out for us? I have battled with trusting life, and at times questioned whether I existed or not.
As I am recovering I want to find a peace within me that may come from something spiritual. Does anyone else feel like this?

[Dawning]

I feel that I don't belong anywhere except maybe in nature which, thankfully, has always helped me get balanced.  And music.

But I often feel that I have no family or group and that I make a mess of things when I get involved in groups.  Like my mere presence upsets things.

The reading I have done talks about the fact that our mother is our first spiritual connection and if she is not there for us how can we trust that there is anything/one looking out for us?

I have felt like this throughout most of my life and felt it hard to trust people enough to let them get to know me and all my imperfections.  I felt that eventually they would see how crazy I was and leave.  Its a self-fulfilling prophecy because this has, indeed, happened.  And the abandonment leaves me angry, sad and fearful all at the same time.  About 6 months ago, it was very bad...I felt I had no one looking out for me and no one interested in my well-being.  So I laid in the dark on my bed saying over and over to myself..."you are safe...you are safe...you are safe..."  I have to reprogram myself that the world IS a safe place and that I am worthy of existance here along with everyone else.  This "mantra" actually works for me now and helps me get to sleep on some nights.

Spirtuality takes different shape for each individual I think and I won't allow anyone to push anything on me.  I have to listen to my intuition and ask alot of questions to those I trust.  Which at the moment is this board and a few people I work with.  I am interested to hear more.  LIttle by little.

[jessie]

Thank you for your reply. I think that for those of us with N mothers have deep rooted trust issues. Not only not trusting people but not trusting life itself.
I think this basic mistrust leads to low level (or even High level!) depression and anxiety for much of our lives.
it's like the world isnt a safe place to be in.
so it's hard to find inner peace. But I know what you mean about nature and music. That does it for me too, although if the music is sad I can go right down. I have to choose my music carefully!

[Dawning]

Hi Jessie.

Not only not trusting people but not trusting life itself.

I think when I get like this it is almost always when my relationships with humans and my attempts at intimacy appear to fail in my mind.  When I feel loved and accepted for who I am in a give and take *caring* environment, I find I can trust life but - if that is taken away - I go right back to distrusting life and people and *myself* in a heartbeat.  Lately, my equilibirum has been damaged somewhat and my intuition tells me to get it back by talking about mutually interesting topics with people and nurturing intimacy that way.   Yet another part of me tells me to be alone some more so I can heal.  I always think I have to heal alone.

[Glennis]

The reading I have done talks about the fact that our mother is our first spiritual connection and if she is not there for us how can we trust that there is anything/one looking out for us?

Interesting thought, that. I have an adoptive N-mother. I can remember a dream in which I was riding with my mother and father on bicycles, when I fell off the trail, and was hanging by my fingers over a cliff. My mother, with her red hair set with bobby pins all over her head, peered over the edge of the cliff, but refused to help me.

I was a child at the time of the dream, and I still remember it at age 50.
The bobby pins on her head was the way she used to set it in real life. I told her about the dream, and she said, "Oh you know I'd never do that." I remember thinking I wasn't so sure. She was always mad at me for some reason. She'd say she loves me and then treat me like crap.

And in thinking about my mother and spirituality, I never thought my mother's religion was real. She took us to church every Sunday, without fail. As I grew older, I began to realize Mother wasn't going to church to gain any spirituality, or to worship God. She was going there with her family all dressed to the nines for show. Going to church was her way of appearing virtuous and stylish at the same time.

She was in competition with other mothers at church. She had one friend who always bragged about her children. My mother did the best she could to brag, but once we were home, I was compared to her friend's child, Susie, a lot.

"Susie is a good little girl, and always does as she's told." "Susie gets straight A's, why can't you?" These were two examples of what I was regaled with constantly.

Of course, I began to hate Susie, and knowing I'd never measure up, stopped bothering to try.

It took many years to become who I really am, and to trust my own instincts and intuition...and to even come close to my own potential for what I can do in this world. Much of that was from finally realizing that my n-mother was absolutely wrong about me.

I'm not someone who constantly needed to be "fixed." I'm a strong, independent woman with a better idea on how life works than my n-mother ever will.

Today, she says little. She doesn't know how to handle me. I have strong boundaries, and will not accept criticism from her. (It's never constructive, always the opposite and designed to control me.)

[Portia]

Hiya Jessie, Dawning, Glennis...may I join you briefly?
One thing this board has made me think about and put into practice here, is the idea of making myself vulnerable so that I can share, learn, feel acceptance etc. I think Dr G has an article on vulnerability. And if some people don't like my vulnerability (telling too much?) that's okay. But I find it helpful. It doesn't mean I necessarily trust more, but when you have it all out on the board - and nobody turns and laughs at you! - that's a pretty good feeling. (Okay...time for someone to laugh at me...but do you know what I mean?) People can't get close unless you let them...and that means exposing the parts of yourself that may not be your favourite parts. Think I'd better stop there!

No, I'll try and be clearer: being more open and vulnerable means that I've found that I'm not that different to others. And if other people can accept me, warts and all, well maybe I can accept myself -as part of the universal whole. Does that make sense?

[Anonymous]

Hey y'all,

Well, as you might be able to guess from my handle "Seeker", this is a topic that always interests me greatly.  I had to stop and think about it though.  "What would I do if I didn't have a set of traditions, beliefs, in fact, a downright repulsion to the concept of God?"  I love what a rabbi once said to an atheist: "I don't believe in that God either," meaning the punishing, damn them to the desert, I'll show you whose boss kinda God.

I guess I might start with reading about different traditions and philosophies.  That is, which philosophers seem to speak to me and comfort me.  Just for fun, you can go to beliefnet.com to take an online test of your current position and a good match to an existing tradition.  I like the idea that we're heading for the same destination, but are maybe taking a different roadmap than the next believer.  Sort of like shopping for your own brand of higher power.  God doesn't care if you phone, email, or use a carrier pigeon, s/he likes to hear from you.  But you don't have to, that's what free will is all about.  But it is so supportive in times of despair.  

I might even try thinking of Mother Earth as my mother.  Your mother may have given birth to you, but she was a conduit for what is now your life.  There's a piece of the divine inside you.  You might want to look there first and get in touch with what true love would feel like if you made it up yourself.  Then give it freely to yourself and everyone around you with no expectations.

Jessie, I think you have a unique opportunity to explore this on your own terms.  You haven't been pressed into one flavor of theology to the point of rabid defense or destructive brainwashing.  No one telling you how to do it "right".  Religion and ritual have its place in building community and support, but I keep my eyes on the prize.  

I hope this helps a bit.  Oh, another thing I found really pretty neat is a book called the Spirituality of Imperfection by the founders of AA.  It's a collection of essays and anecdotes which helped relieve my sense of failure and flawed personality.  Our creator made us just the way we need to be.  

Take care and write to us all again soon.  Much love, Seeker

[Dawning]

I might even try thinking of Mother Earth as my mother.

Oh, Seeker, thank you so very much for reminding me of this.  I am truly so grateful for reminders such as this.

There's a piece of the divine inside you. You might want to look there first and get in touch with what true love would feel like if you made it up yourself. Then give it freely to yourself and everyone around you with no expectations

How do you give love freely to everyone around you?  Is love a state-of-mind that stays with you forever once you have found it?   When I give love freely- because it feels natural - I get attached to what is created by love and then, if the person - be they male or female, friend or blood relative - ignores me or takes me for granted, I begin to distrust that I am doing the right thing by giving love freely.  I hope that made sense.    

[Anonymous]

How do you give love freely to everyone around you?  Is love a state-of-mind that stays with you forever once you have found it?   When I give love freely- because it feels natural - I get attached to what is created by love and then, if the person - be they male or female, friend or blood relative - ignores me or takes me for granted, I begin to distrust that I am doing the right thing by giving love freely.  I hope that made sense.    

Maybe if you change the word 'love' to 'higher awareness,' it will make more sense.

bunny

[juliajayne]

Dawning,

 if the person - be they male or female, friend or blood relative - ignores me or takes me for granted, I begin to distrust that I am doing the right thing by giving love freely. I hope that made sense.  

Just remember too that people are in different spaces at different times and may not be ignoring you or necessarily taking you for granted, they may just be emeshed in their own thing at the time. I had to learn the hard way not to take things too personally. It gets in the way of real intimacy in many ways.

JJ

[Anonymous]

Hi Bunny, how do you do that?  As I was blathering on below, you wrote in fifteen words what it takes me 15 paragraphs to work out on paper...amazing!

Hi Dawning, er, what Bunny said  

No really...oopsadaisy!  I don't mean to say hey it's okay to be a servile doormat for others (I'm exaggerating) to demonstrate love.  I guess I'm talking about an attitude.  I'm trying to work on being less judgmental about myself and others.  

One time I was pulling up some plants and there were all manner of snails and slugs around.  Ughhhh!  I said, "Oh yuck!  I HATE snails!  Ew!!" and my nephew said, "they're God's creatures too!"  I fell down laughing.  I think what I'm trying to do is look for the positive and be as kind as I can without giving myself up.  I'll think things like:

"Gosh, my child has successfully reached a significant developmental milestone called puberty!"    
Or
"That scary dog is very good at meeting its potential as a pitbull!"

Just kidding around, sort of.  There is a mother in my midst who used to give off very rejecting and snobby vibes.  It used to really bother me.  Now I try to feel patient and understanding for someone who was probably criticized to death while she was growing up and is just trying to do her best.  Rather than throwing off "my god, what the h*** is your problem?" type of vibes, I just try to be accepting.  Funny thing, once we both discovered that the other one wasn't perfect and also not a threat, we both relaxed.  Now we're friendly.  

Where once I used to put my expectations on people (esp. teachers, doctors, and car mechanics) I now just try to accept that hey, they were once kids with imperfect parents too.  Can I work with this or not?  

For the really challenging folks in our lives (yes, NSIL comes to mind once again), I think: I don't know what God's plan is for her, but it doesn't include me!

As for feeling ignored or taken for granted, I think sometimes we're not so good at asking for what we want.  My mother is really guilty of this and expected us to read her mind and get frustrated when we didn't.  I'll bet if you spoke up about what makes you feel loved, your friends/SOs would be happy to reciprocate--if they feel comfortable with it.  

I qualify that last statement because I have a friend who is loving with kind words, quality time, an available ear but short on service because she feels taken advantage of herself.  She's also extremely uncomfortable taking care of other children given her family history--very traumatic.  Now that I have revised my expectations we have a better understanding and I don't extend myself as much either so I don't feel taken advantage of either.  

There's a pretty neat series of books (yes, another one!) called The Five Love Languages.  I have the one for children, but it really applies to everyone.  Basically they are physical touch, words of affirmation, quality time, acts of service and gifts.  The authors also give hints as to how to figure out which ones your loved ones (and you) respond to most.  One of my kids is a quality time lover and huggy and the other is huggy and loves gifts    

Well, jeepers, I'm going on and on now.    
Am I still on topic here?   I'm still working on this trust business too.  I have to consciously work on it.  I hope this is helpful and not too pie-in-the-sky.  I know I sound more together in writing, but I reel from the same feelings and questions that were originally posted above.  I had a real bender of self-doubt this weekend.  Oy.  Any additional suggestions for relaxing and acceptance of others would be welcome!  
Peace, Seeker

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone that has replied - thanks so much for your words. And Seeker thank you too. I have explored many areas - Buddhism, mediation, Catholicism, the Quakers, but I still struggle to FEEL anything inside. I think what has highlighted this for me is that I have a friend who is a devout Catholic and I have seen the comfort her faith gives her. She really believes she's not alone. Not matter what happens she's got this inner safety net.

I anything were to happen to my children, or my partner I think I would die. I haven't got the inner strength to deal with adversity. In my life I have gone from relationship to relationship (with men) avoiding being alone at all costs.

I feel that if I were to get this bit sorted out, I will pretty much have cracked it. I think what I feel is that the wounding I have received through having an N mother can never truly be healed and that I am stuck with this - even though I have healed so much else - through years of therapy as I already said.

I liked what you said Seeker about your mother and finding an acceptance of her. I am still very antagonistic towards my mother. she gets under my skin in seconds, when really all she is is an 80 year old lonely old lady.

Maybe Forgiveness is the key??

love to you all

ps What is NSIL?
and I can't do the little icons and stuff cos I don't really get computers!

[Jaded]

Guest wrote that maybe forgiveness is the key.  I think it is very important to remember that forgiving someone is not saying that you accept their actions and agree their actions were right.  To me forgiving is saying that you have proccessed their actions and YOU  have found YOUR way past them.  Not that you accept their actions, you have come to terms with them.

Forgivness is a way of lifting the burden off of your shoulders.  If you cant forgive someone it is only you who has their actions on your mind constantly.  If a person asks for forgivness for something, they truly show they are sorry and sincere.  If they dont, they really dont have a care that you are disturbed by what they did.

I forgive my parents, I forgave my N, and by me forgiving them it by no means states that their actions were right.  It states that I am a much lighter person emotionally because I dealt with the pain that they inflicted.  The second someone repeats their offenses to me, they are history in my book.  Shame me once, shame on you.  Shame me twice, shame on me.

[Anonymous]

Hi Jessie,

Thanks for starting this thought provoking thread.  The responses have been pretty intriguing.

When I read your post and then (i'm guessing you are the guest that just posted again) your response, I see that you are struggling with a couple of things in addition to spirituality, like what is forgiveness and how do I deal with my mother whom I still resent?  What do I do when life serves up another helping of adversity and struggle?  

Jaded really hits the nail on the head with the forgiveness thing.  I was taught that forgiveness was about apology and takes two people to make it work.  Boy, was I wrong!  Check out http://www.forgiving.org/Working/myths.asp for the latest thinking and explanation of forgiveness.  It's not an instant cure, but after years of resenting my SIL I was able to let go of my obsession and desire for change and my anger--finally!  I find I feel much much better about myself and my life when I stop obsessing about my past (I still do this, see below) and focus on my future and my goals.  I also now think of anything SIL says as "noise" with no meaning.  That helps too.  

When you talk about the possibility and fear of losing your H or kids, boy, that would be devastating.  The words "resiliency" and "coping" popped into my head.  I do not mean to minimize the pain that such an event would cause, but it sounds like you might benefit from building your confidence that you can handle adversity and might be able to stop "what-if-ing" as much.  Relax and let life happen.

Finally--I know this sounds really "out there"--I happened to pick up a book about a woman's near-death experience.  I know, I know, some folks rank it right up there with UFO's and leprauchans.  But it really changed how I thought about spirituality, religion, etc etc.  But I also think one must be open and read this only when one might be ready for it.  I think it was called Changed by the Light.  

Jessie, you might have a different way of connecting with spirit.  Some connect through prayer, some through ritual, some through reading, some through acts of service with community, some through art, etc.  Regardless of what some Bible-thumpers will yell at you, there is no one right way to get there.  

You are stuck with your past, but you don't have to be stuck in it.  You have a major league scar.  I envision a shard of glass that was shoved in my heart.  I remove this shard and oh my God the pain and the big hole it left!  And what a mess!  With time, the wound is healing, I have this scar and I also have this shard of glass which is kind of fascinating to look at really alone with the hole it made.  I found a piece of gemstone that looks just like my idea of this shard just to validate my hurt and the fact that I'm still here and doing kinda okay, thank you very much.  Sometimes putting things in real concrete terms can bring it home to a better understanding of oneself.  

Well, betcha know me better now than you wanted to!   Take care, Seeker

[Anonymous]

[...] I have a friend who is a devout Catholic and I have seen the comfort her faith gives her. She really believes she's not alone. Not matter what happens she's got this inner safety net.

I used to attend services every Sunday at a Black church (I'm Jewish). I envied their fervent faith. I wished I could go forward at the altar call and tell them I was saved. But I didn't get saved. Let's face it, faith is comforting to those who have it, but you have it or you don't. If you're like me and you don't, here is the alternative:

The book, "Handbook to Higher Consciousness" by Ken Keyes.

Also getting to know yourself and practicing doing stuff alone, so you can be less dependent and more autonomous. I think autonomy is more important than spirituality at this point. And they are the same thing anyway.

bunny

P.S. I think NSIL = "narcissistic sister-in-law."