Author Topic: Am I truly this selfish?  (Read 4215 times)

Screamer

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Am I truly this selfish?
« on: June 30, 2004, 11:40:38 AM »
Hello all.  I have posted here once or twice before and have been very grateful for the support I have received.

My husband and I have decided that we will start trying for a baby this November.  I've already had a check up and am getting ready to go.  We are planning on moving to a bigger house this summer in anticipation of our new arrival.  However.........

We still have the lingering problem of my mother.  I have decided to cut her out of my life.  My husband and I have discussed this extensively (and oh, the many hours of therapy!)  He says, "at this point it's just self-preservation."  He is very supportive of me and my decision.  He says I have been so much happier the last year and half without her.  He says he can see me shifting focus.  Now instead of focusing on my mother and the past, I can focus on myself, on him and our future.  And oh, yes.... I'm not crying all the time and I'm not thinking about suicide.

Despite this, I am begining to waiver.  Perhaps it is very cruel of me to cut her out of my life.  I think of this more now that we are planning to start a family.  I can't imagine how I might feel if my child one day said, "I never want to see you again."  It feels so very selfish and wrong to think of my preservation over hers.

Everyone, I just need some support on this.  Please share your thoughts.  I feel like I am searching everywhere for permission to take care of myself.  I just want to finally be free.  Is that too much to ask?  

I want to believe that I'm doing this to save my children from growing up like I did.  That the long line of generational abuse will end with me.  But the truth is... I want this for me.  I want to be free of this.  I want to live in today and not yesterday.  I want to end this madness I have lived in and just breath free air.  I want to develop my own self-respect and self confidence.  I want to have a happy family.  

Look at the paragraph above.  This is probably the most selfish decision I can make.  Please share your thoughts.  Please be honest, I can take it.  If this is selfish and wrong... please say so.

Anonymous

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2004, 01:01:59 PM »
Hey there, Screamer

Good to hear from you.  How encouraging to hear that your H is so supportive of you and not only that, you are bringing new life into the world!  Congratulations!!! :D

There is nothing like having a child for altering our perspective.  Get ready--you're going to have all kinds of questions beyond the N mother thing.  My H said after our first child was born, "suddenly the world is divided into two camps: those with kids and those without."  Not a judgment, just a perspective.  It's a pretty exciting roller coaster.

I fully relate to your questions about selfishness.  This is your conditioning.  I have no doubt that you will NOT treat your child like your mom treated you.  It is not cruel to cut your mom out of your life if it means saving your life.  You did not ask for this circumstance, you are trying to survive it.  If it helps relieve any of the guilt, (I hope so), you can tell yourself that you are doing it to show your child what life-giving behavior looks like before you expose her to the harsher realities of life.  Your child needs to know that the world is going to be safe with you in it, regardless of whatever is going on with your mother.  That is your priority now.  Even a nice grandma has to take a backseat to a baby.

I would take your paragraph of "wants" and change "want" to "NEED".  You are just as deserving to need as anyone.  I know.  I was told and conditioned repeatedly not to need by my incredibly needy father.  

Your decision does have something to do with Self.  But don't judge yourself so harshly that you are selfish and therefore a bad person.  You are not a bad person for having your own needs.    Take care and I hope you have a wonderful pregnancy and birth!  Your baby is lucky to have a couple of parents who are going to give it care and love.  

Peace, Seeker

Jaded911

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2004, 01:09:02 PM »
Hi Screamer,

I have so much to say that my fingers are tired just thinking about it, lol.

First of all, don’t WANT to believe that you are doing this to save your children from what you suffered during your childhood; you BETTER believe that you are.  Yes I am sure you do want it for you as much as you do your children.  You already have the maternal instinct that your mother obviously never had because you have put your future children before yourself when your “egg donor” couldn’t see fit to do it when her children were born.  You might want to be free from this and I am sure you do but reality is this sweetie, in order for you to give 100% to your children emotionally, you have to have 100% to give.  Do not worry hun  if you have days you can only offer 65% or 94% to your kids because know what, that makes you human.  You only have to worry if that pattern continues day to day to day like your mothers did.  So to state that you want to be free, again, it’s almost as if you have to be free in order to accept happiness when your children arrive.  

I am not a perfect parent by any means, I don’t know one person who can say they haven’t yelled at their kids, or they haven’t been tired and turned them down when they asked to play a game or something.  But I will say that as a mother I did put my children’s emotional needs at the top of my priority list.  My kids never had to hear how they were a pain in my ARS, they never had to hear how they were a piece of chit, a whore, a selfish F’N winch because they asked for lunch money.  So as a mother, I might not have been perfect but I can assure you that I was a completely opposite mother then my egg donor.  She gave birth to me, she was by no means a mother.

Live in today sweetie because nothing you can ever do can change your past.  As you grow you will realize that half of the battle is learning to accept that your mother’s behavior was a defect of hers, not a lack of yours that you could not satisfy her, hell she didn’t even know what it took to be satisfied.  While she was picking on you, your mother gave herself some self esteem, and I believe they call that supply.  It is her lion to tame, not yours and trust you and me, the day you have those kids, if your egg donor is still in your life that only gives her more to degrade you about.  You will never do, nor can do, right in her eyes because plain and simply put, she loves making you feel like chit to maker herself the big perfect kahuna.  Spare your kids from witnessing her verbal and emotional attacks on you.  

My dear, when you free yourself from your mothers wicked spells that she attempted to cast upon you, a happy family is exactly what you shall have.

My mom to this day (that is when I chose to listen to her chit which is few and far in between, lol, such a wonderful feeling) anyway she will say things like how proud she is of me because I am getting my masters, she was just telling Madeline how wonderful I was doing, blah blah FN blah.  I shut her right the hell up by saying, hum…..bet ya didn’t think that day would come did ya when you were calling me a no good whore, a stupid FN C that would live life with a C**k shoved in me, did ya now.  I am telling ya, nothing shuts that thing up faster then for me to repeat some of the horrible things she would say to me.  LOL, the woman had two weeks of her 7th grade education.  Bing Bing, bells here anyone?  She felt stupid as hell and wanted me to feel just the same.  You know, drag me down to her level.  Damn good thing that I had the will to move past her emotional dungeon.  If I wouldn’t have, my kids would have suffered the same childhood that I did.  I feel this is the best thing I could offer my children as a mother.

Screamer, be everything you ever wanted your mother to be as a mommy.  One day you will see what I mean when I say that nothing you could ever buy your kids could replace their needs for your love, your tenderness, your nurturing, and your encouragement for them to be the best that they can be.  You cant buy happiness and I also believe you cant buy your self esteem.  That is something that comes from nurturing, not from Sax Fifth Av.

Your self respect and confidence will come at night when you lay alone in bed with your thoughts.  You treat your kids as you wished to be treated as a kid and the confidence and self respect will shine like the sun and your thoughts will be filled with sweet ones, not ones that are bitter like your birth ladies were.

You got the whole world in your hands.  Grasp it and accept that you deserve to venture it.  You have the ability to love and you deserve to be loved.  You will never get this from her so I say to you, my ability to accept me came when I rejected her attempts to deem me unworthy.
Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me!

Jaded

Anonymous

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2004, 01:12:04 PM »
Screamer,

If having your mom in your life leads to suicidal thoughts, how could it be selfish to keep her at a distance? It would be more selfish to inflict her on the baby.

Keep doing what you're doing. When a woman is pregnant, she instinctively wants her mother to be part of it. But keep using your head. Preserve your mental health, so you can be a good mom.

bunny

mighty mouse

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2004, 03:22:44 PM »
Screamer,

Hi.

You need a self first, and with an N you have no self. You can't really grow up and be the real you if you're still tied to the Nmom.

It would be selfish and weak of you to subject your family to the whims of that thief....the thief that stole your identity, stole your esteem and stole your soul. Get it all back woman so that you have it to give to your little ones.

MM

jaded

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2004, 05:02:15 PM »
Mighty Mouse, those are very wonderful words you spoke to screamer.  You always speak very powerful words via type and I just wanted to let you know that they have alot of meaning and make a hell of alot of sense.

 :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

Singer

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Re: Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2004, 05:22:56 PM »
Hi Screamer,

I agree with what everyone has said so well.  Just thought I’d throw in my 2 cents.

It seems like you might be labeling your need to protect your children as selfishness, which as the others have pointed out is just not so.  Or thinking that it’s selfish to shield your children if as a result you also benefit.

But there’s something out of balance. Ideally a child would have a right to expect to be protected, need to be protected. You protecting your children would satisfy that need. But there’s also an expectation that our parents deserve our respect and that we have a duty towards them. And the fact that your mother didn’t balance the equation by protecting you doesn’t seem to alter the expectation that you somehow still owe her. The two sides don’t match, and the end result is guilt which is free-floating and just waiting for a place to land.  Doesn’t make sense, but there you have it.

So I think “Am I Truly This Selfish?” is the wrong question. I’d suggest something more like “What Am I Supposed To Do With This Stupid Self-Defeating Guilt That I Feel For No Damned Reason?”, or something along those lines.

Best wishes on the move.

Singer

les

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2004, 05:45:56 PM »
Screamer - reading your posts takes me back to being pregnant with my first born. My Nmother was so jealous. It was an extremely stressful time and I really wonder if the uterine environment was a bit toxic because of this. It seems to be common wisdom now that excessive stress and anxiety in the mother can be felt by the babe. So here is the first reason to make sure you have all the emotional distance YOU NEED from your mother. My baby was 2  weeks over due - this happens of course, but at that point I was seeing a therapist because of my mother and I remember saying that there was no room for this baby to be born - my mother was right there at the gate in some insane jealous baby rage. She came to visit at the hospital and  it was all about her. She was in a snit, pursed lips, tight smile.  I sometimes ask my husband for a reality check on this and he says yes indeed she was pissed off and we have the "grandma with new grandchild" pictures to prove it! Perhaps your mother isn't nuts in this way but by the effect she has on you I think she is as toxic as a burning chemical dump.

That said - I wonder and I know this is controversial - is it possible, since you are so aware in some ways at this point, to set up really good boundaries, codes of behaviour, whatever it takes, a bit like tough love for teens and let her in a bit if she behaves. I honestly don't know if that works since I came to understanding all this too late to protect my children and now with much grief I understand that they truly needed protection. Now as adults, we are talking through some of the damage "grandma" (although she wanted to be called GG or maybe or this or should I be called this or this blah blah) did.

All the strength and courage of a mother lion, I wish for you,

Les

les

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2004, 05:48:52 PM »
Screamer - reading your posts takes me back to being pregnant with my first born. My Nmother was so jealous. It was an extremely stressful time and I really wonder if the uterine environment was a bit toxic because of this. It seems to be common wisdom now that excessive stress and anxiety in the mother can be felt by the babe. So here is the first reason to make sure you have all the emotional distance YOU NEED from your mother. My baby was 2  weeks over due - this happens of course, but at that point I was seeing a therapist because of my mother and I remember saying that there was no room for this baby to be born - my mother was right there at the gate in some insane jealous baby rage. She came to visit at the hospital and  it was all about her. She was in a snit, pursed lips, tight smile.  I sometimes ask my husband for a reality check on this and he says yes indeed she was pissed off and we have the "grandma with new grandchild" pictures to prove it! Perhaps your mother isn't nuts in this way but by the effect she has on you I think she is as toxic as a burning chemical dump.

That said - I wonder and I know this is controversial - is it possible, since you are so aware in some ways at this point, to set up really good boundaries, codes of behaviour, whatever it takes, a bit like tough love for teens and let her in a bit if she behaves. I honestly don't know if that works since I came to understanding all this too late to protect my children and now with much grief I understand that they truly needed protection. Now as adults, we are talking through some of the damage "grandma" (although she wanted to be called GG or maybe or this or should I be called this or this blah blah) did.

All the strength and courage of a mother lion, I wish for you,

Les

Michelle

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2004, 06:23:50 PM »
Oh Screamer -

If you have any question about how important this topic is, any question at all, just look at all the responses you've gotten so far.  That should answer your question beyond the shadow of a doubt.

I can give you a reality check of the potential future that your children will have IF your NMother should be allowed back into the picture.  Before I ended contact with my NMother, she was on the prowl with my daughter (then 2 years old) and son (I was pregnant with him at that time).  She came to visit two times since we moved back to the U.S. (we had been stationed overseas for a few years).  Both times she would smother my daughter with her demands and unrealistic desires....here are a few (just a few, mind you) of the sickening things I remember her saying:

*  Is mamaw your very best friend?  Tell mamaw she's your very best friend!
*  I have to leave in a week.  Are you going to cry your eyes out?  Are you going to miss mamaw?  Don't you wish I could live with you so I would never have to leave?   :shock:
*  You can't go out and play with your friends because mamaw is visiting and you love her more than them.
*  I know your mommy said no candy but mamaw is the boss of her so you can have some.  
*  You don't have to go to bed yet because mamaw is here so you can stay up until I say so (when we told her it was time to go to bed).
*  I don't feel like playing right now, come sit by me and watch tv.  Mamaw needs you right beside me.
*  Is mamaw pretty?  You should tell mamaw she's pretty when she gets ready in the morning.

I am not exaggerating on this topic.  They were very eye opening and really helped me begin to see the severity of my reality with her.  Especially where the disrespect was thrown in (when she thought she could override my husband and my decisions regarding our child).  Of course, we told her point blank that it was unacceptable to disrespect us in front of our child.  She chose not to listen and so it was a few weeks later that I entered counseling and since then have cut her off completely.

Please do not expose your child or other future children to that behavior.  Take all the pain from growing up and multiply it for them.  Would you really want your child to experience that suffering?  I don't think you would.  

I still occasionally feel the guilt that comes along with my decisions....my children never getting to know my mother, etc.  I am at the point now to realize that  she is not worth knowing.  Is that sad?  Yes!!!!!  But is it my fault?  No!!!!!  And it is not my problem anymore either.  Since I have been "reparenting" myself (retraining my behaviors, thoughts to more healthy ones), I have had a much increased self esteem and realized that this is one of the most loving decisions I could make for my family.  I wish the same for you.

Lots of loving hugs and support,
Michelle
Healing one day at a time.....

mighty mouse

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2004, 11:00:32 PM »
Since I have been "reparenting" myself (retraining my behaviors, thoughts to more healthy ones), I have had a much increased self esteem and realized that this is one of the most loving decisions I could make for my family. I wish the same for you.

Screamer,

Ditto what Michelle said above 1000 times. It's the best thing I've ever done.

Jaded,

You are too kind. :oops: ah Shucks!

MM

Ellie

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2004, 11:57:45 PM »
Screamer,
More on the extent Ns will go.

My parents forced my sister to let them adopt her daughter at 4 years of age because my sister got pregnant while not married (the worst sin/ reflection any of us girls could have done to them!), and because she did get married to the father, but then divorced him. My mom told me when she found out my sister was pregnant that she would take that child from my sister, that my sister did not deserve a child for that behavior. My N dad told her if she gave in without a battle, which would cost them $1k, they would allow her to remain a part of her daughter's life - only as a sister, not a mother. If she fought them which would cost $10k, they would make sure she never had access to her daughter ever again. My dad told her he had connections and had already consulted a lawyer and was assured he would gain custody of the grand-daughter after the things he had told the lawyer. She was too weak to stand up for herself and without a partner to help her battle them, she gave in. Eventually they used keeping mother and daughter apart as punishment. If the grand-daughter didn't make the grades in school they expected, or misbehaved, or if my sister didn't do exactly as they demanded, they refused to let them visit each other. To this day they say they were only looking out for the grandchild's welfare. Truth is, their siblings were adopting their grandchildren and they didn't want to be left out, plus it was more N supply!

I left my daughter (then 3 years old) with them for a couple weeks when we were getting ready to move across the country. I didn't know the extreme my parents would go to at the time - I know now! When I called each evening to talk to my daughter, my mom got on the phone with her and told her to tell me she didn't love me anymore, she wanted to live with her ma-maw. My daughter cried and said she wanted her mommy and my mom told her, with me on the phone that her mommy left her there, ma-maw was now her mommy. My daughter told me a few years later that she remembered standing at my mother's front door crying for me because that was the last place she saw me, and my mom grabbed her, drug her away from the door fussing at her for crying and told her that her mommy didn't love her anymore, that she had left her there and she was her mommy now, she had to just get over it and stop making ma-maw feel bad by crying.

The story is similar to the posting from Michelle. Ns are just as destructive as grandparents as they are as parents. I wish I had known more years ago before I let my parents have access to my children. I would have set limits very early, but I just didn't know what I know now.

Since we moved, my N dad has accused my H and I of beating our chldren and threatened to call CPS and turn us in so they would "take our children from us and give them to them". This came because he is angry that we moved across the country and "took his grandchildren from him".

I do not feel guilty that my children do not see their grandparents anymore. We have set our boundaries and told the grandparents that they can only visit the kids here at our home. We will not let the children go to their house. My parents refuse to visit us because they know they have to abide by our rules here and will not do that. I do feel bad that my children do not have loving grandparents. But it is not something that I can change or control.

You said:
Quote
I want to believe that I'm doing this to save my children from growing up like I did. That the long line of generational abuse will end with me. But the truth is... I want this for me. I want to be free of this. I want to live in today and not yesterday. I want to end this madness I have lived in and just breath free air. I want to develop my own self-respect and self confidence. I want to have a happy family.


That is not selfish! That is the best gift you can give yourself, your H and your children. I wish I had recognized half of what you know when I was just beginning my family. I could have saved my family a lot of heartache. They are all fine from their past experiences, but I am so depressed as I try to fight my way out of my past demons. It affects the whole family.

My mom was also in the delivery room when I had my first child. She actually argued with the doctor when he said it looked like an 8 pounder coming - just as I was ready to push. I vividly remember her telling the dr that no one in her family had big babies and I would not break that mold. The dr told her he was sorry, but I was definitly having an 8 pound baby and I thought my mom was going to cry. I had an 8lb 4oz baby boy with no difficulty at all! But it's ridiculous that my most vivid memory of the birth of my first child was my mother arguing with my dr!

And then she stayed with us for 6 weeks! She didn't want to leave her first grandson. She actually told me she didn't think I ever wanted children so I should let her take him home with her cause I didn't know how to be a mother. I laughed because I thought she was joking, until 6 years later when she adopted my niece.

Good luck with whatever you decide regarding including your mom, and lots of luck (and fun) starting your family!

Anonymous

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2004, 08:56:37 AM »
Oh these stories make me feel like crying!

I didn't cut off from my mother and she hurt my daughter too, all the sorts of things that Michelle talked about. I thought I should be a good daughter and give my mother the pleasure of her grandchild - but when I wasn't around my mother would say to my little two year old 'why doesn't your mummy love me, tell mummy she must love me'.
My daughter came to me crying 'why don't you love Nannie?' (sorry I'm English!) and got really confused. She loved her Nannie but used to cry alot before and after seeing her. She ended up having to see a child psycholgist because she was so distressed about everything. She's now 22 and can talk about it, but I wish I had been able to protect her. I didn't know about narsissism in those days.

DO NOT FEEL GUILTY OR SELFISH - YOU HAVE TO PUT YOURSELF FIRST.
AND WHAT'S WRONG WITH BEING SELF - ISH ANYWAY?

BEST WISHES Jessie

Anonymous

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2004, 01:15:52 PM »
Screamer, Ellie, Michelle, and Jessie,

How terrible and ugly!  The magnitude of what some Ns can do is astounding and I still reel from the shock of some of the stories people share here.  Ellie, your story makes the movie "Chinatown" seem like a fairytale in comparison.   Your poor sister!   :oops:  

All of these stories just confirm my decision to keep my kids away from my major N.  No head trips, please!  

Screamer, it is natural to have doubts, guilt, and wild expectations.  Don't forget the hormone factor during pregnancy!  Just work through those emotions before they affect any decisions re your mother.  

Hugs to all of you for your courage!  Seeker

mrt

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Am I truly this selfish?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2004, 08:36:30 AM »
Screamer,
Hi, I can empathize with you! I have cut my parents and siblings out of my life. It's been about 2 years and I have barely spoke to them.  I was getting angry and making scenes and went to a doctor for anger & depression.

Long story short. The doctor referred me to a therapist. My insurance would only pay for a psychiatrist - so I went. I took some letters that my N family had written me and guess what? I found out that I wasn't crazy after all. He suggested that I cut them out of my life!  

I of course have the guilt and question the decision extensivelybut I'm learning to deal with it.  It is hard but I know I did the right thing and some people tell me that I've made the right decision.  (Some say I should reconcile - but they can only see my N family's side and think they are innocent. ) what hurts is that they don't seem to care that I'm not around anymore. They act like I don't exist and I haven't heard from them either! Oh well if the price of sanity is a little emotional turmoil then so be it. I will learn eventually to let it go.

I do feel like I have peace in all other facets of life. I feel like I gave them some of the best years of my life and that's okay. I GAVE it away. My choice My mistake - call it what you want. But now I am choosing to go on with my life without them.  I've been a lot happier and finally feel freedom.  Keep working towards  your goal.
About your fear of your future kids not having anything to do with you. I would never allow them to have to make that decision.  Don't treat them like you were treated. Be humble. If you make mistakes - apologize for God's sake. Keep it real. Don't play games. Love them unconditionally!

Keep your chin up.


Mrt