NON-SamV NPD info

[Certain Hope]

Carolyn,

To have the craziness in my (our) heart spoken with such truth is empowering and healing.

Since attention is essential for all humans to survive (both physically and psychologically), their demand to "have it all" is malicious.
They would deprive you of any of this precious commodity because they MUST have it all.

I realize in my heart that I was being robbed of my existence, which is malicious.  This information has been most validating to me and my spirit,  to continue to learn and heal with a loving heart.

With appreciation, seasons

Dear Seasons,

Robbed of existence, of identity, of personality... these abusers really are soul-snatchers.

They'll tell you all about how the way you're doing it (whatever "it" is) is wrong  and they'll torment you with constant criticism of your every move.

They'll assure you that everyone thinks their way is absolutely divine, but you'll never be graced with actual evidence of anything they've actually accomplished (because it's all hot air).

The harder you try, the more they complain that you're disrespecting them and the more you give, the more they object that they don't need anything.

See... they think you're trying to win, because that's all they care about = winning.

Never occurs to them that you're a real, genuine, human being who's simply about the business of being your self, because they have no self to be!

And so... life spins hazardly around and around until somebody is either flung off that merry-go-round or else steps off with dignity, dusts herself off, and walks away.

Love to you,
Carolyn

[ann3]

Hi Carolyn,

I just now saw your response to me:  fast moving board, threads get pushed down.

I want to thank you for your kind words to me on Hop’s Thread.

I want to tell you that I really enjoy your posts.  I like your insight and the articles you post.  This article really resonated with me. 

It seems this article resonated differently with you than me, which is also interesting, like 2 people looking at the same picture and seeing different things.

If we're fully in touch with our own limits and demonstrating an awareness of those, most people seem to sense that and won't cross the line, from my experience.
Carolyn, I wish that would have been my experience!  I suppose that shows that I was not in touch with or aware of my limits.

But there will always be those who push the envelope... and, like it's said... the surest way to know you're dealing with destructive people (N or otherwise) is that when you tell them to stop, they just accelerate their efforts.
You just described every member of my foo!!!!  Ah, Phooey!!!!

Until recently, I never knew what boundaries were and I never had them, so when the destructive people (N or otherwise) accelerated over me, I’d withdraw & then, my parents would accuse me of being a quitter!  Or, if instead of withdrawing, I defending myself, my parents would accuse me of being too demanding!

I felt I was a ‘bad’ person because I didn’t like it when destructive people (N or otherwise) accelerated over me and then I was criticized for withdrawing or defending myself.  I couldn't win for loosing.

So, with this kind of attitude and out look on life, I wasn’t able to identify abuse.  If I protested the acts of destructive people, they would criticize me and tell me I was wrong for standing up for myself.  If, instead, I withdrew, they would criticize me and tell me I was wrong for not standing up for myself

Now, I realize whether I stood up for myself or I withdrew, I often felt shame in whatever I did.  At the time, I didn’t know I was feeling shame (shame that didn’t belong to me).   I didn’t realize what shame was all about until I found this board and read some books.  So, before I discovered the nature & origin of shame, I just thought I was a ‘bad’ person.

Until I found out about Ns, Foos, etc, I suppose I lived like a mute, not seeing, hearing or feeling reality, kinda living in an alternative dimension where abuse recipients live:  it’s a different world there, never knowing what type of conduct is acceptable or unacceptable, never knowing what boundaries are, let alone where boundaries begin & end.  It’s a dark, scary & lonely world.

So, this article resonated so deeply with me, especially these sentences, which, Thanks to You, Sweet Carolyn, will now be my mantra & guide posts: 

The most important measurement of the malignancy of a narcissist is in the effect on you.

You can accurately measure the toxicity of the narcissist by the effects on your own soul.

The evidence of who they really are is in the effects on you.
You need to give yourself permission to issue your "verdict" against your N based on the evidence left on your heart, mind and soul.

These words confirm for me that if I am unsure as to whether someone's conduct is abusive, I can make a decision by looking at the effect on me.  Basically, trust my gut.  Now, I can really identify abuse.

Thank you so much for giving me this gift of clarity, Caroline.

Love,
ann

ps:  I’m  glad you have a nice, normal hubby.

[Certain Hope]

Dear Ann,

Thank you!

It seems this article resonated differently with you than me, which is also interesting, like 2 people looking at the same picture and seeing different things.

If we're fully in touch with our own limits and demonstrating an awareness of those, most people seem to sense that and won't cross the line, from my experience.
Carolyn, I wish that would have been my experience!  I suppose that shows that I was not in touch with or aware of my limits.

(((((Ann))))) I hear you.

And you're right, I should have worded that differently. What I wanted to express is that - when we have good, strong boundaries, most abusers (N's or whatever) do seem to sense that fact and not bother wasting their time. It's like maybe we give off completely different vibes once we've learned where our responsibilities do - and do not - lie.

It's when an abuser senses a weakness in the area of boundaries that she/he will zero in for the kill, from my experience.
When I met Npd-ex, there's no doubt in my mind that he could tell, within 10 minutes, that I was totally vulnerable to his approach, because I didn't have a clue what boundaries were.
Later in our relationship, it began to be more obvious that he had a completely different approach altogether with folks he sensed as "strong".
If he wanted to impress them, he'd lay on the shmooze. If he could tell that they would quickly be wise to his routine, he'd keep his distance. It's really quite predictable.

The more grounded my own boundaries have become, the less chance the difficult people in my own life are finding to jerk me around.
I think N's are lazy, where supply is concerned. Once they recognize that they are really not getting any more from you, they'll move on.
On the other hand, it's important to remember that N doesn't care whether supply comes in the form of positive or negative attention. Either one works well for her.
So ambivalence is the only route that's effective and that means No Contact.

So, with this kind of attitude and out look on life, I wasn’t able to identify abuse.  If I protested the acts of destructive people, they would criticize me and tell me I was wrong for standing up for myself.  If, instead, I withdrew, they would criticize me and tell me I was wrong for not standing up for myself

Yeah, I know. Have you read Lupita's donkey story? It's so true.

You'll keep marching on the rest of the way, with this, Ann... I'm sure of it.
A clear head is the best preventative measure there is, to keep away the N fog.

Take good care of yourself, please.

With love,
Carolyn

[ann3]

Hi Carolyn,

You worded it just fine, I understood what you meant.

So true:  Ns can sniff strong people & if they sniff that strength, they walk away.  They are predictable & lazy.

I'll check out Lupita's story.

love,
ann

[LilyCat]

Hi carolyn, I'm with everyone else -- it's great and refreshing to find "other" information. thanks for posting this.