Author Topic: NON-SamV NPD info  (Read 8778 times)

Leah

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2008, 02:40:37 PM »

Hermes,

Have you read the book?

Does ego psychology and object relations mean 'object' as in treating people as his/her object?

Thanks,

Love, Leah
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Hermes

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2008, 02:45:15 PM »
Hello Leah:

No, I have not read this particular book.  But, "object relations" is:

In psychodynamics, Object relations theory is the idea that the ego-self exists only in relation to other objects, which may be external or internal. The internal objects are internalized versions of external objects, primarily formed from early interactions with the parents. There are three fundamental "affects" that can exist between the self and the other - attachment, frustration, and rejection. These affects are universal emotional states that are major building blocks of the personality. Object relations theory was pioneered in the 1940s and 50's by British psychologists Ronald Fairbairn, D.W. Winnicott, Harry Guntrip.

All the best
Hermes

Leah

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2008, 02:54:58 PM »

Thank you, Hermes

Appreciate, very much, your explanation of 'object relations' with such clarity.

So much to learn, still.

Love,

Leah
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Hermes

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2008, 03:16:38 PM »
I suppose this puts it in a nutshell. 
Hermes


""The NPD illusion of superiority is a facet of a generalized disdain for reality. These individuals feel unconstrained by rules, customs, limits, and discipline. Their world is filled with self-fiction in which conflicts are dismissed, failures redeemed, and self-pride is effortlessly maintained. They easily devise plausible reasons to justify self-centered and inconsiderate behavior. Their memories of past relationships are often illusory and changing. If rationalizations and self-deception fail, individuals with NPD are vulnerable to dejection, shame, and a sense of emptiness. Then they have little recourse other than fantasy. They have an uninhibited imagination and engage in self-glorifying fantasies. What is unmanageable through fantasy is repressed and kept from awareness. As they consistently devalue others, they do not question the correctness of their own beliefs; they assume that others are wrong. The characteristic difficulties of individuals with NPD almost all stem from their lack of solid contact with reality. If the false image of self becomes substantive enough, their thinking will become peculiar and deviant. Then their defensive maneuvers become increasingly transparent to others (Millon & Davis, 1996, pp. 405-423). 
 
 
 
 — Sharon C. Ekleberry, Dual Diagnosis and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder 
 
   


Certain Hope

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2008, 08:03:42 AM »
I suppose this puts it in a nutshell. 
Hermes


" As they consistently devalue others, they do not question the correctness of their own beliefs; they assume that others are wrong.
The characteristic difficulties of individuals with NPD almost all stem from their lack of solid contact with reality.
If the false image of self becomes substantive enough, their thinking will become peculiar and deviant.
Then their defensive maneuvers become increasingly transparent to others."
 


Yup. Transparent as a sheet of glass.

Thank you, Hermes. Good description.

Carolyn

Leah

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2008, 08:19:46 AM »
I suppose this puts it in a nutshell. 
Hermes


""The NPD illusion of superiority is a facet of a generalized disdain for reality. These individuals feel unconstrained by rules, customs, limits, and discipline. Their world is filled with self-fiction in which conflicts are dismissed, failures redeemed, and self-pride is effortlessly maintained. They easily devise plausible reasons to justify self-centered and inconsiderate behavior. Their memories of past relationships are often illusory and changing. If rationalizations and self-deception fail, individuals with NPD are vulnerable to dejection, shame, and a sense of emptiness. Then they have little recourse other than fantasy. They have an uninhibited imagination and engage in self-glorifying fantasies. What is unmanageable through fantasy is repressed and kept from awareness. As they consistently devalue others, they do not question the correctness of their own beliefs; they assume that others are wrong. The characteristic difficulties of individuals with NPD almost all stem from their lack of solid contact with reality. If the false image of self becomes substantive enough, their thinking will become peculiar and deviant. Then their defensive maneuvers become increasingly transparent to others (Millon & Davis, 1996, pp. 405-423). 
 
 — Sharon C. Ekleberry, Dual Diagnosis and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder 



Dear Hermes,

I have not come across Sharon C. Eckleberry.  What struck me, regarding my real life personal experience, with my xNH

is this;

The characteristic difficulties of individuals with NPD almost all stem from their lack of solid contact with reality. If the false image of self becomes substantive enough, their thinking will become peculiar and deviant. Then their defensive maneuvers become increasingly transparent to others


More and more I am understanding my XNH thinking patterns, which became frightening toward the latter year of our lengthy marriage. 

Sometimes, a wave of sadness flows over me, for him, and his life, as he is a human being, who is presently floundering, apparently.

He travels all the way to our last house (can't call it home) and sits in his car outside the house.  That is truly sad to know.

Love, Leah
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 10:22:23 AM by LeahsRainbow »
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Hermes

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2008, 03:49:56 PM »
http://winning-teams.com/narcissism_causes.html


Some excerpts from this site:


"""A distinction must be made between 'normal' or 'healthy' narcissism on the one hand and 'pathological' narcissism on the other. .......the pathological narcissist has a level of delusion that is divorced from reality.Ref

Kernberg used a theoretical frame to differentiate between 'normal' and 'pathological' narcissism, combining ego psychology and object relations theory. Normal narcissism refers to well integrated representations of the self and others, whilst pathological narcissism relates to an impaired intrapsychic structure with grandiose self-representation and a severe pathology in object relations.

Human beings are social creatures and need social interaction, feedback, and validation of their worth. The emotionally mature person doesn't need to go hunting for these; they gain it naturally from their daily life, especially from their work and from stable relationships. The emotionally immature person, however, has a low level of self-esteem and therefore often feels inferior. This can lead to neurosis, paranoia and narcissism.

Healthy self-esteem is not formed if a child is not valued for his or her own self worth. Usually the child is only used for the benefit of the parent's self-esteem and to further the parent's needs. A narcissistic personality may be formed to make up for this lack of support and encouragement from parents.Ref



Leah

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2008, 04:05:49 PM »
Another excerpt from the site ....


What is a narcissist?

A narcissist is someone who displays a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, a need for admiration, and a lack of empathy that usually begins by early adulthood. This pattern of grandiosity can be seen in their view of their own uniqueness and abilities. Narcissists are beyond being self-centered, viewing themselves very highly and expecting others to view them the same. Their preoccupation with themselves and requiring constant attention and admiration from others disturbs their interpersonal relationships especially with their lack of empathy.

All narcissists view themselves very highly and expect others to view them the same.

A narcissist displays most, sometimes all, of the following traits:

   An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges

   Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
   
   A lack of psychological awareness

   Difficulty with empathy

   Problems distinguishing the self from others
   
   Hypersensitivity to any slights or imagined insults

   Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt

   Haughty body language

   Flatters people who admire and affirm him
   
   Detests those who do not admire him

   Uses other people without considering the cost of that for them

   Pretends to be more important than he is

   Brags (subtly but persistently) and exaggerates his achievements

   Claims to be an 'expert' about most things

   Cannot view the world from the perspective of another person

   Denies remorse and gratitude

But underneath this false image that the narcissist displays to the world, he has constant feelings of inferiority, inadequacy and worthlessness, which lower his self-esteem. It is because of these feelings that he develops his false image, and the associated traits described above, in a never ending attempt to raise his self-esteem and feel good.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 04:08:05 PM by LeahsRainbow »
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Bella_French

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2008, 04:13:28 PM »
Thanks so much for the info Hermes and Leah; I always like digging around new sites.

I found some info from the site Hermes posted, that I thought was interesting.

To paraphrase, the author raised the point that society itself promoted the  `ideal human' so heavily, that perhaps a natural consequence of that is that many people would feel inferior in comparison.

A narcissistic response would be to ignore reality and invent a false, ideal self that fits well with the `ideal' promoted in our media.

A `depressive' response would be to remain connected to reality, and feel bad for `not measuring up'.

I wonder why some people are prone to magical thinking, and some people are not?

Leah

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2008, 04:23:10 PM »

Dear Bella,

I too was fascinated by that information on the site that Hermes signposted.

Have taken a copy for reference, as it is an interesting social science eye opener.

Love, Leah
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Hermes

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2008, 08:05:37 AM »
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Narcissism+and+Narcissistic+Personality+Disorder+(NPD)+at+a+Glance-a01073747015

"""Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is often diagnosed with other mental health disorders ("co-morbidity"), such as mood disorders, eating disorders, and substance-related disorders. Patients with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) are frequently abusive and prone to impulsive and reckless behaviours ("dual diagnosis").
Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is commonly diagnosed with other personality disorders, such as the Histrionic, Borderline, Paranoid, and Antisocial Personality Disorders.

The personal style of those suffering from the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) should be distinguished from the personal styles of patients with other Cluster B Personality Disorders. The narcissist is grandiose, the histrionic coquettish, the antisocial (psychopath) callous, and the borderline needy.""
Narcissistic adults are widely thought to be the result of bitter disappointment, of radical disillusionment in the significant others in their infancy. Healthy adults realistically accept their self-limitations and successfully cope with disappointments, setbacks, failures, criticism and disillusionment. Their self-esteem and sense of self-worth are self-regulated and constant and positive, not substantially affected by outside events.



Certain Hope

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2008, 08:18:25 AM »
Thanks again, Hermes. My mother's sister was like a combination of bpd, histrionic, and extreme N'ishness... so I know how tangled the co-morbidity can get. She never married, but was able to hold down a lifetime job... at least until various illnesses began to consume her life (in her early 50's). I have always believed that her mental/emotional condition is what made her physically ill.  NPD-ex was thrilled, early on in our marriage, when I thought for a brief time that he was borderline personality.
Then, one day (he musta seen that I'd discovered narcissism on my computer "history") he wheeled around at me in a rage and hissed, "I am NOT narcissistic!". That's when I knew for sure.

Here's some more stuff I've collected:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1857317


And particularly re: Covert N's

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:VIXm_9G6oI4J:levylab.psych.psu.edu/PDFs/Journal%2520Publications/klevy%2520et%2520al%2520NPD%252009%252026%252006%2520%255Bedited%2520with%2520references%255D%2520final.pdf+narcissistic+personality+disorder+Minnesota&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=16&gl=us

 In Paul Wink‘s (1992) longitudinal study of narcissism among a sample of Mills College women, he found that his group of hypersensitive (or covert) narcissists described their parental relationships as generally lacking warmth, with feelings of insecurity towards one‘s mother.
His  willful (or overt) narcissists reported an attitude of dislike towards one‘s mother with concurrent pride related to one‘s father.  Wink‘s findings seem to confirm and even expand some of Block‘s (1971)observations on his female dominating narcissists group. Block followed this group from junior high school through adulthood, and found that the familial context that was common among these women was characterized by parental discord, a dominant, self-indulgent and extroverted father, and a neurotic, somewhat dysphoric, vulnerable mother. Block suggests that the extremely aggressive, condescending, self-indulgent, undercontrolled dominant narcissist seen in his adult sample was a product of an identification with one‘s detached but impressive father.

Certain Hope

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2008, 10:01:32 AM »
In contrast to the Arrogant/Overt Narcissist, 
the Shy/Covert  Narcissist
is characterized by vulnerability and sensitivity which manifests itself in defensiveness and hostility. 

Like the Arrogant/Overt Narcissist, the Shy/Covert Narcissist

 has grandiose fantasies,

feels a sense of entitlement,

and is exploitive. 

However, the Shy/Covert Narcissistic personality is characterized by worry,
ineffective functioning,
unfulfilled expectations,
and vulnerability to stress.

Certain Hope

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2008, 10:35:00 AM »
In - Further developments in the clinical diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder -

A.M. Cooper summarizes the distinguishing features of the Shy/Covert Narcissist as follows:


     Covert narcissistic individuals are those whose fantasies,
whether conscious or unconscious,
are indeed grandiose, inflated, unrealistic, and self-centered. 

They may be preoccupied with fantasies of grandiose achievements, imagining themselves as world heroes, centers of attention, and acclaimed by all.  However, for one of several dynamic reasons, these fantasies are not expressed in overt behavior and are regarded by the individual consciously as beyond attainment. 
The grandiose desires are not matched by a conviction of personal efficacy. 

 These individuals are conflicted and guilty over their overweening exhibitionistic, competitive, and aggressive desires,
and their defensiveness often leads them to suppress or repress any awareness of the existence of these qualities


 Most often, a barrier is imposed by a severe inner conscience that finds these fantasies unacceptable, demanding both that they should be  suppressed and that the person should feel guilty for harboring unacceptable wishes. 

In effect, the superego accurately detects
that within these self-inflating ideas lie self-centered, aggrandizing desires to attribute all goodness and power to oneself
and relegate all weakness and badness to others, an aspect of the angry envy that probably is involved in the genesis of all narcissistic pathology.


Leah

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Re: NON-SamV NPD info
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2008, 10:39:16 AM »
relegate all weakness and badness to others, an aspect of the angry envy that probably is involved in the genesis of all narcissistic pathology.


There's that word again, Envy!

Angry Envy rings a bell with my NPD M.

Pathological Envy.

I thought so, will add this to my searching about Envy thread.

Thank you , Carolyn

Leah x
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