N Saint slandered me to my therapist (just heard)

[Gabben]

Last night I was at My therapists office, my good therapist, who I have been working with for 2 1/2 years.

At the end of my session my therapist told me that she had been in contact with my old therapist, the N saint. She said that N saint had called the diocese seeking my current therapist's number to see if N saint could meet with my current T to discuss her ministry (N saints), asking my current T for her help.

My current therapist told me that the first thing out of N saint's mouth to her was: "you know, I have a detractor?"  My current therapist knows the entire story of what happened between N saint and I. She quickly put two and two together and told N saint "no, she is my client" and with a silent, gentle hand gesture, waved her off from speaking more about me.
 
N saint omitted to my current therapist the fact that she KNEW that she knew she was my current therapist, making it convenient to avoid the issue of ethics, it was her way of trying to sidestep the issue so that she could get in with my T and get her against me, just like she did to my old spiritual director, sabotaging my two year relationship with him.

My therapist confirmed for me that N saint has been slandering me to my fellow ministry workers and is trying to sneak her way into my ministry.

What do you do when the N in your life is trying to slander you to everyone making you out to be the N?

This is crazy making stuff -- thank heavens for my therapist, for my ability to know myself and for my lack of attachment to the opinions of others.

Her slander of me explains why so many people have been cold and standoffish to me in recent months.

I'm not sure what to do accept just keep doing the anonymous work of helping others, turn the situation over to God, seeking people who are out of state and removed from the situation, that work in my ministry, who support me and will pray for the best outcome of the situation.

I tell myself that it is not about me winning with her, it is about forgiving her, blessing her over and over again in my heart until I can actually feel compassion for her -- let her have all that is mine, God will provide, she must be more wounded than me, therefore she must need more.

However, I'm still hurt and angry. I awoke up this morning with an ache and hurt in my heart, telling myself that the hits just keep coming.

How do I defend myself or do I just sit back and watch her take my reputation and friends? What does the bible say about slander and how to handle it?

One thing I know for sure, she cannot and will not poisen my current therapist against me, my current therapist loves me and said last night "you are one of the best people I know." She assured me over and over again, not that she had too, because I already know that N saint will not damage our current work together.


Lise

[Ami]

Lise
  I am so sorry about this. N's are the gifts that keep on giving(pain)
   You have to hold on to who YOU are---God's child, beloved,loved for who you are inside, where  no person can touch. That is what I think of when I feel desperate..
   Lise, this lady will reap what she sows. It will happen.
   I am so sorry, Lise and I am here to help ,in any way that I can.    Love You,Lise,      Ami

[Gabben]

Hi Ami -

Thanks.

ugh...I feel like I have been kicked in the stomach. Do you know that I have not spoken to anyone about her? Zero.

I have not slandered to anyone, ever. The only person that knows is my T and this board. That is why I came to this board because I needed to talk about her and express the pain without slandering her and talking about it to others with whom we both know.

But my therapist? I mean come on....I have a right to talk to my therapist about anyone and especially the N saint. This last summer when my pain of my abandonment was surfacing, again, N saint rejected me, refused to return my calls and emails -- slandered me to my spiritual director "as intense."  I needed therapy after that.

She plays the victim. She acts blameless. My T saw that in her. She confirmed her emotional shallowness and confirmed for me how unwell she is. That is the good news, confirmation, at last!

What amazes me is that the N projects that others are slandering them....because that is exactly what they are afraid of, slander, because they do it to others they can't see that the rest of the world does not always operate out of fear, some of us actually have real faith, like me!

Lise

[Ami]

Lise,
  I don't know if this will help ,or not. Our worst fear is  being rejected after we have shown our "soft underbelly" to s/one(a therapist is the worse). If you could use these feelings as a way to try to heal deep pain,as I did on the janet thread,you might transform  dirt in to gold.
  I am sure that you already thought of this or are doing ,it.YOU taught ME ,for goodness sakes(lol)
  However, s/times when we are in pain ,we forget our best advice. Compost,please, if I am way off base, which I might be.
            Love   Ami


(((((((((Lise)))))))))

[Gabben]

Hi Ami,

Thanks, yes, that is exactly what happenend --- her rejection triggered the FOO stuff and that is exactly what 90% of my pain is about, thanks.

However, I am still rehashing the new hurt. The deep hurt of feeling that N saint had no regard or respect for my relationship with my therapist, zero. She violated sacred ground as far as I am concerned. To breech ethics, try to even discuss a patient with a therapist is just wrong. But then to do it under the guise of pretending that they don't know you are the client and without acknowledgment of the relationship and how much I need my T....JUST WRONG.

I have never spoken of her...not even hints, nothing.

I feel unsafe --  Is she going to try to get to my new spiritual director? I just need to keep getting expressing the hurt and anger of it until I am done with the hashing.

Lise

[Certain Hope]

Dear Lise,

That was a really underhanded and dirty trick she pulled! There really is no telling what sort of manipulative crud NPD will pull.
One thing tho... at least it is quite obvious (at least to me, it seems so) that this was no coincidence, but rather a calculated move on her part.
I am sorry you have to deal with this now, atop everything else, Lise. I know how much you were looking forward to a helpful session last night... but maybe this is all just in exactly the right timing? Right off the bat I see one really good thing coming of it... at least your good therapist has now had a personal encounter with this vixen and I bet she'll be able to lay some good bricks of new knowledge and healing on that basis. I like that picture, anyway... fresh bricks getting mortared together, forming a solid structure against which no more NoNseNse can prevail.

Love to you,
Carolyn

[Gabben]

Hi Carolyn,

Exactly --- her maneuver WAS calculated, that's what was so mind boggling to me. It is like a thriller movie when the aggressor is so cunningly covert, she sneaks into my life via my therapist under the guise of service.

I had to speak with my therapist again today, in tears, wondering to myself, am I safe anywhere. Who else will she contact.

It is like she is targeting me, underhandedly, to get me out of her way or because she is so deeply envious that she is stealing my reputation, my charity work and even trying to steal my support systems.

My T confirmed for me that she is only a LSW not a MFCC, which I already knew. But T said that the reason that she did not go for her MFCC is because you have to log on over 3000 hours of counseling training and for a N that is too much transparency or potential risky exposure.

So I did something today -- I emailed N saint, calling her on her slander of me because now I have a witness who agrees that that is exactly what she was doing. She is tripping herself up.

Here is what the bible says on slander:

Jesus knew the anguish we can inflict on each other.
One day when He was alone with His disciples, He
warned them against offending others (Mt. 18:6–10).
Yet He acknowledged that offenses will come (v. 7) and
went on to instruct them in how to deal with them.

If your brother sins against you, go and show him his
fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to
you, you have won your brother over. But if he will
not listen, take one or two others along, so that
every matter may be established by the testimony of
two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to
them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to
listen even to the church, treat him as you would a
pagan or a tax collector.

—Mt. 18:15–17


I told her to call me and to set up a time to mediate with my therapist or someone else but that we need to come together and resolve our issues, peacefully.

I also told her if that she did not respond to me that I would take Christ's advice.

[Gabben]

Detraction: is the unjust damaging of another's good name by the revelation of some fault or crime of which that other is really guilty or at any rate is seriously believed to be guilty by the defamer.



OK -- So N saint's words to my T were:

"I have a detractor."

Just think about that.

Is that not one of the most twisted forms of slander?

Basically she IS speaking of me in an attempts to damage my reputation by revealing my alleged untrue fault of speaking against her.

It is mind boggling and so unbelievable -- ARE N'S REALLY THIS TWISTED?

Lise

[Certain Hope]

Dear Lise,

I do believe that is exactly how to proceed... all the while practicing Proverbs 3:5-6 and leaving the outcome in the hands of the Lord Jesus.

The "I have a detractor" instead of "I do not always communicate successfully or effectively practice as a counselor
(i.e.:  " I am not perfect and I made a mess of this one! " ).... well...  that says it all, to me, Lise.
But as in all things, the entire universe revolves around her. None of it, not a bit, was ever, ever about you.
I'm so sorry this goes on... but I do believe that you are about to put a stop to its ability to cause you so much pain!

Love,
Carolyn

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
 It is good that you are being pro-active, rather than just reactive. What you did sounds very good,Lise. That was good thinking,on your part. 
                                                                                                                                   Love to You, Ami                       

[Certain Hope]

Lise,

After my gut reaction began to settle, I realized...

Do you suppose this N Saint person was primarily concerned with finding out what you'd shared about her with your current T?
Like she was on a fishing expedition?

That is still so very unethical, wrong, nosy, improper, etc. etc....
but maybe it's a better picture and easier to tolerate than the idea that she's on a mission to slander you?
I mean, self-protection is always N's primary concern, right? And your current T does not sound like someone who will be easily messed with  (That is such a happy thought!!)

I dunno, often I figure that the truest picture of reality is somewhere in between my own initial hyper-response (cuz I do have those  ) and a total dismissal of suspicions, if that makes any sense. And please forgive me if this is non-edifying, unhelpful babbling, Lise. I just started to feel like I'd jumped the gun here and maybe put some of my own gunk into your picture, after the day I had.

Love,
Carolyn

[Gabben]

Wow Carolyn,

You must be in tune with the Holy Spirit! That thought just came to me this afternoon too.

I was thinking that it is not so much her seeking to target me as it is her protecting her interests. She just recently started a new ministry which is work that I do, work she is fairly new to.  She has been in contact with several people I work with in ministry and I think that she projects that since I do not like her that I must be slandering her to people. Therefore, she gets in there first and tries to manipulate in order to control the situation. Unlike me, as you can see, I tend to be super direct -- I confront things head on. She is a very frightened person and has to manipulate.

My T thinks that it was a combination - double motives -- as you say, seeking to find out what my T knows and seeking to gain some sympathy, if she could.

I think she was calculated in her contacting my T just like she was calculating in her contacting my old spiritual director, the priest, first before I would meet with him.

She is way to busy or preoccupied with self to have  personal vendetta against me and actually be strategizing how to win, correct?

Although, I used to see her emulate me and my style. I have long hair. Once, after not seeing each other for a really long time, we ran into each other, her hair had grown long -- she made a point to play with it with a sort of look and passive gesture as if to say  "I have long hair like yours now." It was creepy too the way she did it.

So, I know envy is a factor for her. My T said there is no reason for her to be shunning me because I am such a warm, good and honest. She agreed that her shunning is part revenge and part a wall of envy.

Lise

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
  Your therapist sounds like she can be trusted. The N's are very envious. It is very creepy about the N saint therapist--very creepy. You DO get a feeling of being in a horror movie ,with no place to run, when you are dealing with an N.
  I used to relate to charcters in horror movies, such as Rosemary in 'Rosemary's Baby". She tried to get away and just when she thought she was safe,she was face to face  with another enemy.
   I think that you will rise above this ,Lise. I do.                                      Love, Ami

[Gabben]

The "I have a detractor" instead of "I do not always communicate successfully or effectively practice as a counselor
(i.e.:  " I am not perfect and I made a mess of this one! " ).... well...  that says it all, to me, Lise.
But as in all things, the entire universe revolves around her. None of it, not a bit, was ever, ever about you.
I'm so sorry this goes on... but I do believe that you are about to put a stop to its ability to cause you so much pain!

This was great, so validating. She cannot even look at herself, she projects the ultimate image of saintly perfection, she woulld never admit to any fault which is such toxic behavior.

Lise

[Gabben]

Rosemary's Baby! I'm going to watch that this weekend -- I have never seen it, a good old fashioned horror film sounds good!

Lise