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Relationships while working through it all

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Anonymous:
Ellie,

Maybe your H will go to a marriage counselor if he thinks he can "win" in front of the therapist. It's one way to get him in the door. A good therapist will be alerted to his narcissism as soon as she hears he takes vacations where his wife and kids aren't invited.

bunny

Ellie:
I don't really think of H as an N. I'm not sure what is going on actually. It is so easy to see both my parents in this category. They fit it to a T. I once dated a guy for 5 years that was extreme Destructive N. He actually told me he would kill someone in front of me to prove he was in control of everyone he knew. That was when I ran fast and hard. It all ended in a major confrontation with my neighbor holding a phone to call the cops if it got out of control.

But H is different. That is what drew me to him. He was kind, compassionate, understanding, loving, caring, fun, adventurous, loves to travel, loves the things I love. We met on a vacation cruise. Since we married he has gotten to do all the things we both love, I've been at home raising the children.

I guess I  was an enabler from training my N parents gave me - to always give in to everyone or I would not be loved, to comply to be accepted, and to care about everyone else's feelings because mine had no reason to be acknowledged.

After getting married and moving far away from friends and family I was left alone for over 50% of the time in a very remote place because he went TDY so much. When he was home I just wanted us to be happy and giving in to his wants was a way to accomplish this. I guess I thought I would someday get my chance at happiness.

H doesn't think he has any problems. He thinks he bends over backwards trying to please me. The problem is that the things he does that he thinks should make me happy are things that are foremost in his bundle of what makes him happy. He thinks that since I gave in so much in the past, these things are what I focus on. I tell him over and over again what makes me happy, but he just doesn't seem to hear. Or lacking creativity he goes back to the old standards of things we've done over and over again, thinking that should be good enough. I keep telling him I want to explore new activities and he agrees that would be good, but wants me to discover what we should do and plan it all. I'm burnt out from planning everything for years. If I have to play cruise director one more time, I'd rather do nothing. I've told him this many times, but he just keeps asking what we should do. Does he really not hear me or am I dealing with N behavior?

We met traveling and we both love it. He has had the opportunity through the years to travel all over the world. In the past 8 years I have left my state 5 times. Prior to that I think I left the state 8 times in 5 years, mostly to visit his family. Prior to that I left the state 4 times in 4 years. So he got in all the adventures he wanted and I am still wanting and all he can say is that is how it turned out - he can't do anything about it.

We're trying to decide what to do for our upcoming anniversary. He suggests things we've done in the past - dinner and a show. I wanted to go somewhere fun like the beach for our 1st anniversary but because he traveled so much it could not be fit in. He went to Hawaii a month before our 1st anniversary and Okinawa right after our 1st annivesary.

I'm still waiting on a romantic anniversary and he's happy with dinner and a show. Last year I got a golf game with him and 3 other guys, we went to a spa then to dinner. He says he'd be happy doing that again. Then he got frustrated when I reminded him I didn't like golf.

We just don't seem to be able to communicate at all.

Thanks for letting me vent. When I try to tell him how I need change in my life he gets angry and says I'm accusing him of doing everything wrong. If I disagree he says I'm attacking. He asks why I'm depressed and I say things like what I said above and he says I won't stop living in the past and keep blaming him for my unhappiness.

After reading all of this I question 'Am I the sick one?' Am I the one causing all the problems just as he says. And yet, I can't seem to get a foot in the door to enjoying life again. I feel so trapped!!!!!

I tried to find out why he said he could put himself in my N parents shoes and understand why my parents were so upset - that I had been so afraid of them for so long, and was now stepping out on my own and letting them know they had no control over me. He said it must have shook their world and they would of course be very angry. I asked if he could put himself in my shoes and understand why I was hurting so much. He said of course he couldn't, he had not lived in a family like mine and only knew love and acceptance. I asked why he never got angry with them and take up for me after their abusive actions. He said he refused to let himself get emotional with the in-laws. I asked why he didn't take up for himself when they accused us both of abusing our children. He said they were crazy and didn't deserve his time. I broke down and told him I had always wanted someone who cared enough for me to take up for me and try to protect me. He just shook his head and said my parents were not worth his effort.

gardener:
:?:  Is your H very organised in his life as an officer? I know that military personnel often seem to run their families like little units and see their wives as lower ranking and subservient. I know the military life & lived it for about 20 years. Husband always off yet again, training, posted. Gone for weeks or months. It's a very lonely life to live and more than once I've felt I was living like a single mum with none of the freedoms. Our children don't remember him being around much at all.

H doesn't think he has any problems. He thinks he bends over backwards trying to please me. The problem is that the things he does that he thinks should make me happy are things that are foremost in his bundle of what makes him happy. He thinks that since I gave in so much in the past, these things are what I focus on. I tell him over and over again what makes me happy, but he just doesn't seem to hear. Or lacking creativity he goes back to the old standards of things we've done over and over again, thinking that should be good enough. I keep telling him I want to explore new activities and he agrees that would be good, but wants me to discover what we should do and plan it all. I'm burnt out from planning everything for years. If I have to play cruise director one more time, I'd rather do nothing. I've told him this many times, but he just keeps asking what we should do. Does he really not hear me or am I dealing with N behavior?

This is familiar, I'm still waiting for a family holiday which we never had due to anything and everything the military could come up with. Our children are all now well past that stage and off doing their own thing.
(We didn't get a honeymoon either).

My daughter jokes that if she can earn enough she'll buy me a house by the sea to make up for all the things we (myself and the children) all missed, bless her.
 I've also asked for us to do things together and he seems O.K, but expects me to join in with his chosen sport. I tried this only once and he was so competitive that I left the sports building in tears....about two weeks after our wedding. (It was a game of squash)
Maybe their lack of creativity is due partly to the fact that in the military as a serving member you have all your life organised for you by the people in charge. You really hand your life over to others to sort out.

I've now begun to separate time for myself and I am rediscovering the things that kept me happy before I married. I often feel I lost who I was
within weeks of the wedding and moving into military housing. You become just part of that huge machine.

Did you know that, historically, we were called 'camp followers'? (we do what we're told and go where we're lead) (we're the support department)

Try maybe to find some time that's just yours and a piece of paper and write down all the things that made you happy as a child when you had those moments to enjoy. Start a book of ideas just for you. Mine began with all the things I've been longing to do and hoped would one day happen,(but didn't).

I suppose we are a bit like butterflies just emerging, all of us, takes time to open the cocoon and then more time to get used to the wings.

Hope you find yourself again soon.  :)    gardener

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: Ellie ---I asked why he didn't take up for himself when they accused us both of abusing our children. He said they were crazy and didn't deserve his time. I broke down and told him I had always wanted someone who cared enough for me to take up for me and try to protect me. He just shook his head and said my parents were not worth his effort.
--- End quote ---


Mayday, mayday! Ellie: Your husband admits that he has no empathy for your plight. Your feelings do not motivate him into action. It's all about his feelings. He is too scared and self-involved to even stand up for you. Yes, I said scared.

I won't even go into his other behaviors but they reflect the same thing.

Here is a book that I think would help you tremendously. It describes your exact situation of telling him what would work, while he keeps doing what doesn't work. Read this book. You can get it from the library.

"How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together" by Susan Page.

bunny

Ellie:
Gardener,
Your input is right on the money, but we've been out of the military for 12 years! He has a career with defense contracting and is in a very high position within the company. His position puts him in constant contact and working relationship with high ranking officers though. I have told him he continues to be the manager role at home and he disagrees. He sometimes barks orders and doesn't get why we don't respond to him in that mode. He's not military and is in a role to think independently. In fact he is a service organzation to the military.

Bunny,


--- Quote ---Mayday, mayday! Ellie: Your husband admits that he has no empathy for your plight. Your feelings do not motivate him into action. It's all about his feelings. He is too scared and self-involved to even stand up for you. Yes, I said scared.
--- End quote ---


This is what scares me the most. I am petrified to find that hiding in sheeps clothing, I have myself back in another N relationship. I only wish it was that I have taught him to be this way, but I have read enough to believe that the empathy part is high on the list of taell-tale signs. The reason we got into the discussion is that I was trying to find out his level of empathy. I have always wondered why this man who acts like he loves me in so many ways, cannot feel bad for me when I am sick. Everytime I have been very ill he has gotten mad, like I caused the illness on purpose. Once we were on vacation, my youngest got a stomach flu, I had to clean the car up after his projectile bout, and the next day I was on the couch with the stomach flu - both ends type. H got mad that he now had to cook for the kids, get them to bed and pack us up to go home - all the things he depended on me to do. That day was an eye-opener to what my life had become. And from then on, when I get sick, he ignores me and expects me to continue with the chores. Don't get me wrong, he covers real good! The first day I am ill he tells me to lie on the couch and he will take care of everything. But as the day progresses, nothing gets done and I find myself taking care of the kids as they come to me because he is ignoring them. By the next day he has lost the caring attitude and expects me to be back to nomal. This has happened so many times that in the past 2 years I have found myself starting to get angry if he gets sick because that is the way he treated me so many times. He was away for a week for business once and upon returning had caught a little, and I mean little cold. He walked in the door and said, I feel lousy after the plane flight, I'm all stuffed up, I'm going to lie down and nap the rest of the evening. I have 3 kids and had run all over town all week getting them places and keeping up with the daily grind. He had been away on business, meals cooked for him, bed made for him, etc and because he had a little cold, he felt he could take the rest of the evening off while I cooked and kept up with the kids. I'm not sure my reaction, but it was not pleasant and soon he was in the kitchen helping.

I will find the book. I need some suggestions at this point. I'm almost ready to give up because I'm so tired of trying to get it right all these years. But I really do still love him - even at the 300 lbs he's now achieved. He says he will not leave, that he still loves me and is dedicated to the marriage. But neither of us are happy. To tell you the truth I feel as though he keeps trying to do things to make me happy for only one thing - he wants sex and thinks if he can get me over all of this, he will get what he wants. The way it has happened in the past is he will try all kinds of things to win me back til he gets me to bed, then after - it's 100% back to the way he always is. It's as though he ranks the whole relationship on whether he's getting some or not. I have lost all interest since he gave up on trying to curb the weight. I just can't find anything that makes me passionate or crave him the way I used to, looking as he does now. We signed up for a 4 mile charity walk this weekend and the t-shirt sizes only go up to XL. He  said "that is descrimination - they don't think XXLs can walk 4 miles?" He said he would not look silly trying wear a t-shirt too small - but doesn't care that he looks like he's carrying quads and breathes like someone having an asthma attach all the time. He has to put deoderant under his belly and the flaps on his sides to stop the odor. BUT - he says he can't take off the weight because he just doesn't want to anymore. AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGG!

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