Struggling

[darren]

I didn't realize I had any depression going on until a psychologist told me I did.  I found it really odd that someone could be depressed the majority of their life and not be aware of it.  I accept that its probably true, and he explained to me that different people experience depression in different ways.  I don't typically feel sad, or hopeless.  I just lack positive feelings. 

I don't talk about it because I'll feel like I'm whining, and a part of me feels like if I do I'm giving voice to those feelings and giving them strength.  I'm sure that therapy is main solution I should pursue, but I'm really into self help , also.  Am I holding onto negative thoughts?  Am I having my own self pity party?

Its also quite a blow to have it suggested I have my own disorder.  I spent so long in a relationship with a probably personality disorder so I know the pain and frustration it causes.  I've watched and listened in so many forums and realize how much trouble people with personality disorders have put some people through.  Its a shock that there might be something wrong with me.  From what I've seen people with personality disorders seem quite hopeless and cause lots of problems, so I wonder how society is going to accept me.  I spent a good six years whining, complaining, and being angry at things like BPD and BPD. 

I've noticed that being so reclusive and unsociable has weird affects.  When I offer up so little about myself, people tend to fill in the blanks themselves.  These days I can see humor in that.  Some people think I'm a jerk or weird... some people think I'm an incredibly nice guy and wonderful.  Both sides kinda make me laugh.  I don't think I'm happy with the way I think the world perceives me.

Does a person with a personality disorder have a right to be in a place like this, where a lot of people have suffered at the hands of it?  Are people untrusting and wary of people like me?  I'm okay with who I am.  I'm pretty self absorbed, but at least I don't have traits that make me seek attention or manipulate or lie to people. 

My day to day life seems like I'm just trying to kill time till its all over.  I don't think I feel the need to rush that, but I don't see a point.  I'm dragging along with no meaning or purpose in life.  Shouldn't there be more to it?   

[hardtotrust]

Hi Darren!

Only last year a therapist diagnosed my depression. Only then I understood a lot of simple symptoms that I had had most of my life, including isolation. She also showed me that my mother was depressive in my childhood, helping me to understand her distance.

I also think it is wise not to talk about it to people in general, because most people can't or don't have the time to understand and that will make you feel worse (usually we hear something like "you should forget it and go on with your life"). But if you have someone you can trust and that proves capable of listening to you without judgement, DO talk to this person.

This is the place to talk about it. DO whine, but don't get lost in it, look for the causes. What is the motivation behind it? In my case, I learned that I whine mostly because I feel inferior and complain of people and situations in general to try to be at the same level or to feel justified.

Regarding your feelings that you have your own disorder, remember the basic facts: if you were really disordered, would you be here and in therapy, accepting your problems? No. Really disordered people don't see anything wrong with themselves. So, the very fact that you are questioning your sanity is your first and very concrete sign of sanity.

Of course we don't grow up or live with disordered people for years and then go away intact. In my case, I have lots of traces of NPD, that I am working on. And living with this kind of people is crazy-making by itself, we have to learn what normal is in the aftermath and that takes time and experience.

Hope I helped.

Best wishes!

[darren]

Yes, luckily I'm not so messed up that I can't be introspective.  Although I've been through a lot of rough times, I'm thankful in the past year or so that I can recognize where I have issues.  I can see what makes me different and work on it. 

I have found its difficult to talk about with people in general.  They just don't seem to get it.  I remember trying to explain to a coworker how my ex had mental problems and her response was just, "Oh, I don't believe in that stuff."  <bangs head on desk>  Even my own mother got mad at me when I suggested there was something wrong with my ex, as if I was just being mean.  I think I've learned that lesson though and I'm pretty cautious who I choose to share with now, and I'm much better at finding people who will understand and recognizing those that wont. 

After my rough childhood I spent most of my adult life thinking I was tougher than everyone else emotionally.  After all, I went through hard times and seemed to be unscratched and unaffected.  Turns out it wasn't so.  Its hard to believe I can be a grown adult and not recognize what a healthy relationship with a person is.  I'm learning though, and I've eliminated ENORMOUS amounts of stress just from that.    Its an amazing difference between having decent people in your life, and people you have to "deal with" or "put up with." 

[ann3]

Its hard to believe I can be a grown adult and not recognize what a healthy relationship with a person is.  .......   Its an amazing difference between having decent people in your life, and people you have to "deal with" or "put up with."

Wow, I completely relate to this.  Yes, hard to belive and amazing. 

[James]

Hi darren.......I've had a lot of therapy and been diagnosed with lots of stuff. From BPD to Schizoid. one crazy therapist tried to convince me I was psychotic....she basically was a pill pushing fraud/psychiatrist that charged people 55.00 for 10 min of consultation. After (3) hour long visits for psychotherapy. $145.00 each session. I saw thru what she was doing.... stood up and told her what I thought and slammed the door in her face. In essence she lied to herself and was using her patients.  From experience lots of.... if not the majority of therapists appear incompetent. I worried like you about my "diagnosis". that was just another way to keep me beating up on myself and most importantly I had another way to avoid the pain and truth of my childhood and continue in withdrawal and isolation... another form of denial for me. Can you feel the rage inside about what happened during childhood? reading your story i see you like other people here went thru hell. Any symptoms you experience have a reason for being and thats because of what you went thru. Its not about who you are.   Labels say nothing as far as i'm concerened. Believe it or not lots of therapists and people in the public use them with patients to avoid their own unresolved pain. I for one think its terrible...a misuse of power!     James

[darren]

Hi darren.......I've had a lot of therapy and been diagnosed with lots of stuff. From BPD to Schizoid. one crazy therapist tried to convince me I was psychotic....she basically was a pill pushing fraud/psychiatrist that charged people 55.00 for 10 min of consultation. After (3) hour long visits for psychotherapy. $145.00 each session. I saw thru what she was doing.... stood up and told her what I thought and slammed the door in her face. In essence she lied to herself and was using her patients.  From experience lots of.... if not the majority of therapists appear incompetent. I worried like you about my "diagnosis". that was just another way to keep me beating up on myself and most importantly I had another way to avoid the pain and truth of my childhood and continue in withdrawal and isolation... another form of denial for me. Can you feel the rage inside about what happened during childhood? reading your story i see you like other people here went thru hell. Any symptoms you experience have a reason for being and thats because of what you went thru. Its not about who you are.   Labels say nothing as far as i'm concerened. Believe it or not lots of therapists and people in the public use them with patients to avoid their own unresolved pain. I for one think its terrible...a misuse of power!     James

Hi James,

It sounds like you had some bad experience with therapists, and I'm sorry for that.  I've seen my share of therpists doing bad things.  I did not visit with mine that much, but in that short time I think he did a good job.  The only thing he was certain about was that I was suffering from depression.  At the time I had thought I was some kind of psychopath myself, and he convinced me otherwise.  He said I was too aware of my issues to be suffering from something like that, and wanted to treat me for depression and eliminate that.  it wasn't until I prodded him about what was different about me that he suggested we could look at a Schizoid disorder in the future.  I'm more relieved to have a label than bothered, as it offers me some answers.  I'm just not like other people.  Everybody shares these traits of disorders, but at healthy levels, and some of mine are extreme.  I still have things in common with people though, and I don't feel it makes me less of a person.  Though, I can see how focusing on a label can make getting better difficult.  I have a feeling that if I can work out how I got here and work backwards, I can reverse some things.   

As far as my past experience, I had tons of rage and anger at my ex that messed me up bad.  I think I've come so far as to overcome that.  I'm much better for it, too.  But rage from my childhood?  Thats where it gets weird.  I have no feelings at all about it.  Nothing.  If I have any feelings about it, I'm very unaware and very detached from it.  I think maybe childhood sucked so bad that my brain decided it was better to just not feel anything at all.  And thats me, running around unaware and aloof... it wasn't until I ran into my ex that was someone was able to push my buttons enough to make me feel something.

I dunno, life is weird =)  Something about my experience has enlightened me.  It as though my mind is on vacation unless somebody is around abusing me, then I become more like a normal person.  I have to be under serious pressure of my mind wanders off... most likely to escape. 

     

[Ami]

Dear Darren,
  My NM is a therapist,so I stayed away from therapists.I probably was depressed,but in a low level way,no joy, numb.
  I gave up on life , a few years ago. I didn't see any way out of the "rhythm " of my life.
  When my son committed suicide, I realized that I MUST live and thrive. I am trying to do that.
   Do you feel a little better after sharing your feelings? I hope so. Keep writing, Darren. You are not alone!!!!       Hugs,   Ami

[James]

Darren....these diagnostic labels can be sorta helpful in the right hands.  IMO they are  about clusters of symptoms and their origins. There is and has been consderable research for years on their origin. From my own experince it was strictly due to abuse. These diagnostic tools also change every so  often and aren't fixed and their is considerable dissagrement on their causes. Personally i think its just early abuse thats been repressed or denied. I found my rage but like you said it started with people and things around me. I slowly worked backwards and found the truth and all my denied feeings of childhood. Let me ask you a question if someone treated you today like you were treated as a child how would you feel about it?    James

[darren]

Darren....these diagnostic labels can be sorta helpful in the right hands.  IMO they are  about clusters of symptoms and their origins. There is and has been consderable research for years on their origin. From my own experince it was strictly due to abuse. These diagnostic tools also change every so  often and aren't fixed and their is considerable dissagrement on their causes. Personally i think its just early abuse thats been repressed or denied. I found my rage but like you said it started with people and things around me. I slowly worked backwards and found the truth and all my denied feeings of childhood. Let me ask you a question if someone treated you today like you were treated as a child how would you feel about it?    James

Thats an easy question, because its happened.   I ignore it, feel insecure, make excuses and rationalize, until I've had too much... then something else takes over... and I rage and turn into Mr. Hyde.  Its out of character for me, and its werid cuz I avoid getting that way.  But really, its a time to be proud of myself because I'm standing up for myself and my rights.  I get pretty nasty until things get back under control.  My brother used to rage and smash and bash things, so I guess I have a hard time letting myself get angry because I'll feel like I'm being like him.  But basically, I'll put up with it until I can't hold back the anger anymore.  Then I'll snap... but I handle it much better than my brother did. 

Its the same way I acted with my parents.  Every once in a while I had to put them in their place, and I got pretty good at it. 

[James]

Darren.........i really relate to what you just wrote. I've been there. I had a dad who could rage. I was scared of him. i never talked back because of what i feared he would do. When i got older i let people walk all over me. I got mad but kept it inside. Sometimes just smiled at em. when i was pushed to the very limits i could be fierce. I didn't want to be like my dad either. When i finally exploded in rage rather than anger...(.usually in my case the rage that i expressed didn't warrant such intensity anger would have worked fine). it took years for me to realize that the rage I expressed was coming from deep inside (repressed). This old pent up rage that i carried for my dad would without me knowing it come out sometimes in the form of rage at people who i was around. They might have made me angry but that old unconsious rage blew it up bigger than what it really was. The unconscious is strong. I was abused and in denial. most feelings were shut down. current events were triggering old repressed memories and i sometimes raged. the rage usually was about my dad or being abused. it made me feel like a heel though. until i realized what was happening. Nothing is wrong with rage(safely) or anger IMO  Bradshaw Says that Rage is "shamed" anger.  hope i wrote this so it makes sens......James

[hardtotrust]

I've had a lot of therapy and been diagnosed with lots of stuff. From BPD to Schizoid. one crazy therapist tried to convince me I was psychotic....she basically was a pill pushing fraud/psychiatrist that charged people 55.00 for 10 min of consultation. After (3) hour long visits for psychotherapy. $145.00 each session. I saw thru what she was doing.... stood up and told her what I thought and slammed the door in her face. In essence she lied to herself and was using her patients.  From experience lots of.... if not the majority of therapists appear incompetent.

I completely agree with James! After going through a lot with incompetent therapists, I finally understood how I was considering them authorities without the due results. I was acting from an inferior point of view (=they know everything, I don't know what to do).

I am reading now a book called "Safe People" suggested by friends here and I am amazed by how accurate the book is in pointing simple causes to a great deal of psychological problems (not that I am completely against medication, in some cases and at some points in our lives they are absolutely helpful or necessary).

Hugs.

[James]

Hi Hardtotrust...........isn't it great when you can see thru the intentions of a therapist or anyone for that matter! So many of us who have been wounded early, often by N parents, walk into therapy and don't realize we carry in, our feeling of the child fear of facing the authority of our parents in the form of a therapist. we usually sense the inequality but don't recognize its nature. If the therapist is worthwhile he/she treats you with total respect/empathy and eventually the patient has the ability to resove old dependency issues as he is allowed to challenge in safety the symbolic parent in the therapist. The potential for abuse is there and it's common. An unhealed therapist often "seizes" power while the poor patient never really grows and recovers and still feels" less than"..............regards James

[hardtotrust]

Well, James, I can't really brag about seeing through the intentions of these therapists. I'm somewhat naive.

Only last year, after about 20 years of different "professionals" I got real and I got mad. Only then I understood how messed up most of their own lives is. I really believe in the possibilities of psychology, but it is really difficult to find a serious and competent therapist.

And psychiatrists... OMG. They really are important in a moment of crisis, but if let them rule your life... it is very dangerous.

So many of us who have been wounded early, often by N parents, walk into therapy and don't realize we carry in, our feeling of the child fear of facing the authority of our parents in the form of a therapist.

Yes! You summarized it all! That's exactly what happened to me.

Darren, how are you today?

Hugs!

[darren]

Dear Darren,
  My NM is a therapist,so I stayed away from therapists.I probably was depressed,but in a low level way,no joy, numb.
  I gave up on life , a few years ago. I didn't see any way out of the "rhythm " of my life.
  When my son committed suicide, I realized that I MUST live and thrive. I am trying to do that.
   Do you feel a little better after sharing your feelings? I hope so. Keep writing, Darren. You are not alone!!!!       Hugs,   Ami

That sounds just like me, I'm very numb.  I'm not getting a lot out of life at the moment, but I'm looking for ways to change it.  I'm very sorry for your loss, thats got to be a very tough thing to go through.  My father did something similar and I haven't even begun to think about it, or much less deal with it.  Seeing people fight through these issues really inspires me to keep fighting through mine.

I don't really any better yet for sharing my feelings, but I tend to be quite slow with things.  I'm probably only sharing the things I feel safe to share and not the important stuff yet =)  I wont stop trying though... it takes me a while to warm up

[darren]

Well, James, I can't really brag about seeing through the intentions of these therapists. I'm somewhat naive.

Only last year, after about 20 years of different "professionals" I got real and I got mad. Only then I understood how messed up most of their own lives is. I really believe in the possibilities of psychology, but it is really difficult to find a serious and competent therapist.

And psychiatrists... OMG. They really are important in a moment of crisis, but if let them rule your life... it is very dangerous.

Yes! You summarized it all! That's exactly what happened to me.

Darren, how are you today?

I'm doing okay I suppose, I'm still kicking =)  I don't feel like I've made any real progress in getting better in a VERY long time.  I don't think I've really tried though... I think if I stick around a while and pay attention to others stories I'll start finding my motivation again.  This is a great forum and I like the environment compared to other places I've been.