Hurting and shame -- N saint strikes again, now I see psychopath saint

[Certain Hope]

((((((((Lise))))))))) 

Just want to tell you that I don't like to see this thread that you began - in order to express your feelings about your own situation and feelings -  turn into yet another discussion of somebody else's issues. Seems like that happens regularly around here... and I don't like it.

What I think is irrelevant, but I'll express it anyway: to me, this is your thread, your time, your expression, and your opportunity to gather comfort.
I feel anger and frustration at what I see as yet another drama/distraction/blah,blah,blah.

Anyhow, I also think that your current "fellowship" is too small to contain what God wants to do through you, dear Lise.
You are a beautiful spirit.

Love,
Carolyn

[gjazz]

OK I'm coming in late on this.  But your initial question: psychopath vs. narcissist? is one that I've debated, internally, so many times I cannot count.  My NF is both.  When I was doing research I understood "psychopath" pretty early.  Narcissism took longer, and it seems to me a subcategory of psychopaths.  Meaning there are pure psychopaths who can kill simply because they want to have sex and don't want to get arrested for rape.  And there are pure psychopaths who can kill purely because it's convenient.  But narcissists get something--really get something--out of hurting people.  I think for a P it can be about just getting away, for an NP it must be more.

[Gabben]

OK I'm coming in late on this.  But your initial question: psychopath vs. narcissist? is one that I've debated, internally, so many times I cannot count.  My NF is both.  When I was doing research I understood "psychopath" pretty early.  Narcissism took longer, and it seems to me a subcategory of psychopaths.  Meaning there are pure psychopaths who can kill simply because they want to have sex and don't want to get arrested for rape.  And there are pure psychopaths who can kill purely because it's convenient.  But narcissists get something--really get something--out of hurting people.  I think for a P it can be about just getting away, for an NP it must be more.

Thank you gjazz... that opened to some insight. One thing that I a have thought about is that psychopaths lack a concious where as N's have the ability to discern right from wrong yet they may be so deluded by there projective identification that they cannot risk going to their concious, they are split off. I think P's have something in the brain that is not working; they cannot connect their thinking to there emotions...or something like that.

This was interesting:
Sociopaths have always existed in varying form and to various degrees. They have been known by various titles. They have been studied using various techniques, and through the years their ailment has been blamed on various causes. But one thing never varies: all sociopaths share three common characteristics. They are all very egocentric individuals with no empathy for others, and they are incapable of feeling remorse or guilt. [The Sociopath Rebecca Horton (April 1999)]

[wiltay]

 
 Lise, I am so sorry you are in so much pain!  If it's any consolation to you the N saint occupies an even lower rung of hell than you do right now, with no hope of redemption because she lives in a world of self-made lies that she has no hope of escaping.   Her whole foundation is a house of cards that collapses the moment someone (like you) sees it.  Realize the power you have over her just because you know the truth about her.  Just the FACT of your knowledge scares her so much she feels compelled to drive you away or destroy you.

    But she really has no power to destroy you unless you help her.  Don't go into her house of mirrors.  Her only weapons are illusions. The mere fact that most people around her believe in them doesn't make them true and she knows it.  Do YOU forget it!  You must not get involved in the mind games.  She is a master illusionist and you cannot not win over people lost to her without losing your own soul. 

    You have far more power over her than you imagine.  Notice that she cannot look you in the eye.  She is terrified of you, of your knowledge of her true nature.  Don't aid her by giving away your own power.  She cannot take any of these things from you unless you give them away.  Forget the 'looks' people give you.  Their thoughts are completely irrelevant to your mission in life--they don't amount to a hill of beans.  Stay away from the mind games!  It's the only way she can win.  I hope this helps.  You KNOW that I have 'been there.' (ten years worth with my Saintly N). ALL of her power over you is an illusion. 

Bill




Right now I am feeling what feels like the long sharp jab of a serrated knife in my chest being slowing pulled out by N saint, with those predatory black eyes of hers, while she sadistically grins and wisphers "how dare you think you can tarnish my image, all you had is now mine."

Not to keep score but let's see what she has taken from me this year:
1. My reputation
2. My spiritual director
3. My dignity
4. My ministry
5. My hairstyle and wardrobe
6. Some friends
7. My ministry, my passion
8. My parish
9. Time spent in distress over her ruthless actions
10. Opportunities for me to use my gifts and talents.
11. My dignty

[Gabben]

Carolyn,

As always you are just a sweet wonderful person. Thank you.

I'll start another thread today, if I get a chance, about my pain. I need to work some issues out but I have been experiencing trauma, shivers, can't focus, racing mind, sometimes I just catch myself staring into space my arms and chest burn...I hardly eat, do you know anything about spiritual warfare?

Right now I am wanting to push the whole experience out of my mind...it is like I am trying to force the reality of what has happened away....whenever the thought of my church comes into my mind I scream NO! --- I just want to get away.

I know that not all is evil but I can't trust and the not being able to trust is trauma in itself.

This weekend a dear friend of mine, who I nicknamed Veronica because she always helps to wipe the mud off of my face, is getting married. I'm going to Oregon, it will be beautiful up there, I need to get away. I'm thinking about taking a week off work soon, going North to sleep and drink in nature and peace....I need it.


Will you start a thread Carolyn about what is going on with you? It will be good for me to get out of myself and listen although I have a ton of deadlines here at the office today.

(((())))
L

[gjazz]

Gabben:  I agree that Ns know the difference between right and wrong, and that's what makes the damage they inflict so insidious.  Also, with their children, they sometimes teach that wrong is right, and vice versa.  Your upcoming getaway sounds like just the thing.  A change of physical scene can sometimes also change the "scenery" in our heads.  I hope when you get away you can relax, smile, and see your way clear.

[Gabben]

Dear Bill -- I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your help in the last many months. I have missed your voice here but I respect your reasons to keep your distance, I fully understand why.

Your voice here, especially about the saintly N, is a blessing; your knowledge and the struggle you had to go through with Randy was not for nothing, I know you know that, it has been very helpful to me. Your insights stay in my head, they have helped to bring so much clarity, thanks.

[Certain Hope]

Dear Lise,

Re: spiritual warfare.... I know that the only ground which the devil can't steal is that on which we are standing, so - we must be sure to stand on the solid Rock, Jesus Christ, and the promises He's made.  Have you put on every piece of the full armor?  There's none to cover the rear, yanno... : ) No turning tail and running. Telling myself that on a regular basis these days and just thought I'd share. And another thing... the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. He doesn't take them back. Many gifts, but only one calling... not to be withdrawn. Thought I was called, once...
and I'm quite sure that you are.

About starting a thread... I'm not comfortable talking about myself here anymore, Lise. Safety is very appealing and I'm cultivating it. After spending so many years out on the edge of a limb, I've had enough... at least for this season.... Ecclesiastes 3. Retro-shyness, maybe... I dunno.
Not sure where I fit, you know? Just leaning heavily on the Lord for nurture and sustenance and putting one foot before the other.... sufficient unto the day is the trouble thereof .
Oh, yeah.

Lise, nobody can take from you what you don't offer them. What has really simplified this whole thing for me is recognizing that I am not my own... that I was bought with a very high price indeed and there's no turning back from that. I quit seeking myself and alot of rubbish faded away. When it rouses and stirs, I remember that seed which must fall into the ground  and die before new life can prosper. This is not the sort of stuff that's welcome here, and yet it's all I have... and I hope it helps you. I think of you often.

With love,
Carolyn

 

[Gabben]

Thank you Carolyn -- I think of you often too. Your words to me this past year are so filling and wonderful, you have touched me in such a special way. I wish I could write you more, I have to leave.

I hear you about safety -- as I am growing and maturing I am coming to realize how important it is for me to guard my soul.

Lise, nobody can take from you what you don't offer them.


This line is going to be my food for thought for tonight.

I remember that seed which must fall into the ground  and die before new life can prosper.

I feel that this line is prophetic for me...as I have just officially resigned from my parish, my heart aches but I never felt valued there, yes, I needed to heal and to grow but all year long people have been telling me to go away and heal. Now that I am coming out of all and getting so healed and strong I am leaving....Ironic...But perhaps it is like you said, there is somewhere else where God needs me.

If you ever want to be heard, but in safety, you can always PM me...I'll be here.

Night,
Lise

[Certain Hope]

Thanks, Lise.... you are so very special to me. Means alot to me to be appreciated and cared for by you.

And I hear you about not feeling valued. As I've learned to differentiate between that and feeling needed, alot of old nonsense has been purged.
You deserve the respect of your peers, Lise, as do I. Knowing that we really do deserve it makes it a whole lot less vital whether or not we receive it, I think.

Thank you for always offering to communicate, too... I really wouldn't know where to begin, at this point, but just knowing that you're willing to hear gives me great happiness   Makes me happy, also, to think of you resting and recreating up north, away from all the ruckus.

(((((((Lise))))))) I can only imagine how difficult it was for you to resign from your beloved parish and I'm sorry it hurts so much; it's a very lovely place... at least, on the outside. But I'm absolutely certain that you'll find a place and people with a deep, inner loveliness... and maybe even where you least expect it 
God is just cool, that way.
Hey, I will email you soon, okay?

Love,
Carolyn