More Work on Shame Too!

[Gaining Strength]

For some strange reason the REPLY button is missing from More Work on Shame and the modify button is missing too. 

Oh well, I can't post there so I started this one.

thanks to Iphi, Phoenix Rising, Ami, LilyCat, Axa, Debkor, Seasons, Ann3.  I really want to give individual responses but I am sort of at a loss right now.  I hope you will bear with me.

In the meanwhile I recommend LilyCat’s link: http://bapfelbaumphd.com/Entitlement_to_Feelings.html  It is excellent.  This whole concept of being entitled to feelings is eye-opening to me.

What's up with the other thread - how bizarre?

[Hopalong]

Hi GS...
any chance you hit the Lock Thread button (accessible only to the person who starts a thread) by accident? If you did, there is, I think, an Unlock button that appears...

Anyway, woman, your post. I can't do it justice but let me say that you are an extraordinary person. There is so much MOTION in you. Even as you talk about feeling paralysed. I am truly awed by your work and your progress, which is amazing.

I had a thought: is it coincidence that the time you "froze" was when you were faced with motherly duties? Your adorable son may have unconsciousness echoed parental criticism by saying "I'll believe it when I see it." Surely, your feelings of accomplishment are fragile, and maybe he unwittingly primed the flooding/freezing by saying that.

Also, you mentioned his bath and bedtime being real impossibilities that night. Occurred to me, those are times in a family's life that are very like breakfast. Coming to the kitchen where "normal" parents offer love and nourishment. Acts like supervising a bath and bedtime are just the same.

I wonder if when it's time to do "mothering" you are sometimes frozen because the frozen mother you had swarms upward, a bit internalized by you? And in those moments, the crash between your real self (very loving, conscientious and determined to grow mother) and that "ghost self" (internalized shame that orginated in your mother's paralysis) stymie you?

Your mother may have bustled around the kitchen and done her duty and in terms of action, appeared unfrozen. But, she was emotionally frozen. She wasn't capable of giving you love.

Painful insight, if it is one at all, but I hope it's helpful.

love you,
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

Ohhhhhhh!!!!!  a lock button!!!!!  You smart person!!!


What insight.  There is definitely some of that old stuff that gets triggered by my son.  I suspect that some of that stuff circles back and gets him to act in a way that actually triggers me.  That old generational stuff.  As this iceberg begins to crack the emotional reactions to him begin to ease as well.  That's just part of the gift. I am definitely thankful.

I do believe that I will make enough progress to help undo some of the damage that my old stuff has already done him.  I'm glad that I care enough to try to change and to be concerned.

[Gaining Strength]

OK - I unlocked it - boy do I feel dumb.  Yes D-U-M-B.  I locked my OWN thread!  And didn't even know it! D-U-M-B.

[Ami]

Dear GS,
 I can really see what the Bible says,the generational curses are passed down through the generations. I can't remember how many . I see that with my H. The last person he would have wanted to hurt was Scott. My H loved Scott more than any person,on earth,but my H was doing what his family had always done, try to turn the children against the other spouse.
 It was a huge problem for Scott b/c he  loved me and he was torn between the two parents.
 My M is trying to control MY finding my own core, so SHE can be safe and the 'better" one.
 I am blown away ,by seeing this, after all this time.
  Blinders are coming off my eyes and I am seeing life more clearly. It is good, of course, but very scary, too.
  GS, you are an inspiration to so many here.
           Love   Ami

[ann3]

GS,

You are not dumb.  Please remove negative tape from brain bank.  You are human, we all make mistakes.  I do stuff like that all the time and I have no clue about the lock button, huh??  But, isn't great that there are people here to tell us about the lock button, where ever the heck that may be?  Guess I'll know it once I hit it.

About your son, do you think that your parents may have said negative things about you in his presence and he is reflecting this?  Reminds me of the Dog Whisperer, who I think you like: perhaps it's that your son may not see you as the pack leader, sees your NPs as pack leaders, so your son feels he can dump on you?

Ami, incredible wisdom and insight here.  Agree with everything you said.
 
Any chance you GAVE your mom control over finding your core? Because, if so, you can simply take it back.
That simple - yet not as easy as it sounds.

 Phoenix, I agree w/ you very much, but since I have worked on this issue, I would add this:
I didn't GIVE my NM the control because I never HAD it to give.  As I work my issues, I'm understanding about control and am giving it to myself, so I can take it back from whomever I gave it to and never give it away again.

Yes, definately not easy; the concept, the idea is simple, but it takes a lot of work to do it, so it is difficult, but, eventually, we can do it, so it can be done.

love,
ann

[Gaining Strength]

Ami - what an insight!!! I love the comments you have gotten. I think what PR and Ann3 say makes sense.  You can take control from your mother.  I tend to resonate with ann's point of view that you never "gave" it to your mother, she simply usurped what belonged to you but PR and ann3 make a wonderful point that now that you see it you can take control from her.

Ann3 - I don't really think I am dumb but I do think it was a silly/dumb action. 

My father has not seen my son without me present and I can count on one hand the number of times my father has been with my son.  My mother might have but not likely.  I actually believe that his acting out recently is a combination of three things: beginning in Feb. he conntracted strep 3 times and was treated with 3 treatments of antibiotics between Feb. 5 and last Thursday.  At the same time he stopped one medication and started another. 

I think it will work out over time but it has been very trying in the meanwhile.  I have a wonderful, accomplished nephew who started college last fall.  When he was younger than my son he spent YEARS having tantrums that were extraordinary.  All his life he has struggled with anxiety and depression even though he comes from a very supportive family.  But he is very, very sensitive.  I mention this because my sons disruptive, oppositional behavior began only in early Feb.  I am confident that it will pass in time.

[ann3]

Oh, Gs,

I forgot about the strep.  So sorry to hear this.  Strep is awful.  Your ((((((((((poor baby)))))))))).  Yes, it may be the meds, especially since he hasn't really been exposed to your NPs w/o you.

I know what it's like to be in a relationship w/ someone who is oppositional, makes me want to rip my hair out and it's exhausting.  Since you see a possible cause and effect with the meds, it will hopefully pass with time.  Good to hear about your nephew.

Phoenix, you're welcome, I thought that was what you were getting at.  I explored this in therapy and then realized I never had the control, so I didn't really give it away.

love,
ann

[Leah]

Dear GS,
 I can really see what the Bible says,the generational curses are passed down through the generations. I can't remember how many . I see that with my H. The last person he would have wanted to hurt was Scott. My H loved Scott more than any person,on earth,but my H was doing what his family had always done, try to turn the children against the other spouse.
 It was a huge problem for Scott b/c he  loved me and he was torn between the two parents.
 My M is trying to control MY finding my own core, so SHE can be safe and the 'better" one.
 I am blown away ,by seeing this, after all this time.
  Blinders are coming off my eyes and I am seeing life more clearly. It is good, of course, but very scary, too.
  GS, you are an inspiration to so many here.
           Love   Ami

Hi Ami,

My life has totally changed, for the good and the better, ever since I took control of my self and my life ...... from my NMother.

Whilst without a computer this last week or so, on and off!!!  I have written so much with stark comparisons of my life prior to taking control of my life - back from NM state ............ to this last year, for example.

Truly amazing and awesome.

Ami, you said in your post ...

I can really see what the Bible says,the generational curses are passed down through the generations

Interesting to read your thoughts as I have been giving this subject matter a great deal of consideration, having written down a generational chart which clearly highlights some kind of curse falling on each generation, though why that should be, I know not.

Have you by chance discussed this with Ann?  As I would sincerely be most interested to know what her thoughts are on the subject.

Love, Leah

[Leah]

My father has not seen my son without me present and I can count on one hand the number of times my father has been with my son.  My mother might have but not likely.  I actually believe that his acting out recently is a combination of three things: beginning in Feb. he conntracted strep 3 times and was treated with 3 treatments of antibiotics between Feb. 5 and last Thursday.  At the same time he stopped one medication and started another. 

I think it will work out over time but it has been very trying in the meanwhile.  I have a wonderful, accomplished nephew who started college last fall.  When he was younger than my son he spent YEARS having tantrums that were extraordinary.  All his life he has struggled with anxiety and depression even though he comes from a very supportive family.  But he is very, very sensitive.  I mention this because my sons disruptive, oppositional behavior began only in early Feb.  I am confident that it will pass in time.

((((( GS and your dear son )))))  in my prayers, for health and restoration.  That strep virus can take a while to clear from one's system, speaking personally, it took almost a year to clear.  My father has never acknowledged my son, his first grandchild.  I truly know how that feels.

Love, Leah

[Ami]

Dear Leah,
   Ann taught me about generational l curses.                       Love    Ami

[Hopalong]

GS....
Hope you know I wasn't intending to be critical at all???

Just wondered if the "nurture him" and "intimate routines with child" times might be a trigger for the paralysis, because of your mother's own paralysis and resentful attitude toward mothering you.

I didn't know your son was very oppositional. Yikes, I'm sorry.

And no guilt over anything you challenged him with before, here?

(You did the very best you could with what you knew at the time. I'm awed by how much MORE you know now!)

love
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

Hops I didn't take it as critical at all.  And while my son definitely has a touch of oppositional behavior he has a dear side as well.  He is a complex little being who can switch quickly from sweet to refusal on a dime. 

I think you have made a very good point.  I really took it to heart and owned it.  I always appreciate your willingness to call it as you see it.  That is helpful to me and I am willing to try it on and see if it fits.  This time there is definitely some fit - so thanks!