A terrific new book on self-deception

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi everybody,

A new book,  A Mind of Its Own:  How Your Brain Distorts And Deceives, by Cordelia Fine,  http://astore.amazon.com/richardgrossman/detail/0393062139/002-3780278-2516857 is an excellent survey on the nature of normal human self-deception and how we use it to protect ourselves and make us feel o.k. about who we are—at the expense of seeing the truth.  Sobering, and well worth a read.

A quote:

“There is in fact a category of people who get unusually close to the truth about themselves and the world.  Their self-perceptions are more balanced, they assign responsibility for success and failure more even-handedly, and their predictions for the future are more realistic.  These people are living testimony to the dangers of self-knowledge.  They are the clinically depressed.”

Best,

Richard

[Gabben]

A quote:
“There is in fact a category of people who get unusually close to the truth about themselves and the world.  Their self-perceptions are more balanced, they assign responsibility for success and failure more even-handedly, and their predictions for the future are more realistic.  These people are living testimony to the dangers of self-knowledge.  They are the clinically depressed.”

Is this just a fancy way of saying that ignorance is bliss?

Thanks for the tip, the book looks interesting.

[lighter]

ACH!

[teartracks]

Hi Dr. Grossman,

That quote is tantalizing.  I think if I read the book and I find that I am clinically depressed from too much self knowledge, and if the author  doesn't offer up a very good alternative to gaining self-knowledge to escape clinical depression, I am going to be even more clinically depressed!   Ouch!

Edit in:  I'm still thinking about that quote.  One thought is that it  favors and disfavors self knowledge similtaneously. 

Thanks for the recommendation, Dr. G., I think!

tt

[Hopalong]

 

I had the same response, TT...I don't want to read this one.

I am too capable of despair, and the bottom was very deep.

So if it's self-deception that keeps me mostly cheerful, I want to keep it.

Honestly.

I am not brave enough to stay depressed in order to be realistic.

And that's the truth.

Hops

[Ami]

I am mining myself for "truth". I hope I don't find depression, at the end(lol).                          Ami

[Certain Hope]

A quote:

“There is in fact a category of people who get unusually close to the truth about themselves and the world.  Their self-perceptions are more balanced, they assign responsibility for success and failure more even-handedly, and their predictions for the future are more realistic.  These people are living testimony to the dangers of self-knowledge.  They are the clinically depressed.

Yup... I believe this is true, only I'd add a "..." following the words "They are clinically depressed...

... until they receive Jesus Christ as Saviour."

Just my opinion, of course, based on my belief (to quote a contemporary Christian song) that there is absolutely nothing good in me but Jesus. 

Carolyn

[Hopalong]

Bah.

(aimed at nothing and nobody in particular...just needed to say Bah!)

 

Hops

[Gaining Strength]

OMG - I was very excited to read about the book you are recommending Dr. Grossmand - and then I read the description and - boy! I had a similar reaction to Hops:

So if it's self-deception that keeps me mostly cheerful, I want to keep it.

Honestly.

I don't really want to know how self-deceptive I am at this time in my life.  Whew.  I've got too much a load and it doesn't sound that it is particularly helpful to know about my own self-deception.  Oh well.  Who am I and whose perception should I value? Mine? My mother's?  My therapist's?  Hmmmm.

[Certain Hope]

Bah.

(aimed at nothing and nobody in particular...just needed to say Bah!)

 

Hops

lol....

(((((((((((Hops))))))))))) 

I love you, too.

Carolyn

[SilverLining]

It looks like an interesting topic.  The use of words such as "truth" and "realistic" in the quote suggest to me she may push the argument too far into the realm of philosophy and out of experimental psychology.  How can one determine if the opinions of the depressed are more "true" than others?  The reality they experience may be influenced by their opinions and their "disease". 

At the same time, in my personal experience I can see how "realism" in the family environment connects to depression later on.  When I was a child, if I made a claim such as "I want to be an astronaut when I grow up", the type of response I would typically get from my father would be something along the line of "astronauts go through years of grueling training and are never likely to actually go into space".  Can "realism" be a form of abuse?   

[dandylife]

Dr. Grossman,

Thanks for the heads up! I have ordered the book through your link and I hope it helps in supporting the board.

I am about half way through Stories of Anton Chekhov, which you also recommended on your reading list. I am enjoying it. He has a very unique style of writing which feels very authentic and genuine and TRUE.

I am very interested in reading about clinical depression as my partner has been diagnosed with it. He seems to have these (what seem to me as) strange perceptions and beliefs. Fascinating. So.. love to learn more!

Dandylife

[teartracks]

Hi,

“There is in fact a category of people who get unusually close to the truth about themselves and the world.  Their self-perceptions are more balanced, they assign responsibility for success and failure more even-handedly, and their predictions for the future are more realistic.  These people are living testimony to the dangers of self-knowledge.  They are the clinically depressed.”

So the pursuit of self knowledge feeds our fear of freedom? 

Is this whole thing of pursuing self knowledge another example of the definition of insanity, i.e., doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

Guess I'll have to read the book!

tt

[lighter]

There are none so blind....

as those who will not see.

Refusal to examine facts....

in order to sustain a belief system....?



::Stepping back to gain some perspective::.....



I can see there are as many reasons for doing this as there are people on the earth.

Happy/sad

good/evil

self serving/self sacraficing

sadistic/masochistic

We(general) can't control people's willingness to examine facts nor can we waste our limited resources wondering why they can't/won't.

So.....

I'm still strugging to accept that people will sacrafice/scapegoat the most dependant/vulnerable/innocent among society... in order to sustain their belief systems.

::shudder::

There is no serenity in that truth.

It is what it is and......

there's no serenity for me.... I might as well try to find comfort standing on a freezing cold bluff... buffeted by stinging winds and rain.... watching people throw their hungry babies into the freezing sea. 


No comfort for Lighter here.

God help us....

and pass the prozac





::thinking::










I guess we're in need of tools to deal with the symtoms of honest self examination..... 

::sigh::

honest examination of any kind, for that matter.

Self medicating and numbing ourselves (as the society we've become) for the shock.  ::nodding::


It's circular.... I suppose some people self medicate by injuring others and accumulating things.

Still others..... self medicate by enabling adult sociopathic children to prey on their Grandchildren..... they can't do any better.....

or they would???

Right?

Maybe they wouldn't....maybe it's all they can do.... even if faced with the facts they can't possibly deny, logically/rationally, on any adult/sane level?

Remember when Cybil's (Yes, the old multiple personality movie with the enema and crayon marks in the attic trunk) therapist asked out loud....

"what did that monster DO to YOU?" 

I don't waste my time wondering why anymore.

I wonder WHY someone didn't stop her.

Our judicial system is packed full of the symptoms, read that as victims of the emotionally disordered.

It's the symptoms we see and we aren't dealing with the causes..... very sad.

::rambling now and ready to let that thought go::


Lighter

[LilyCat]

Well, here I am again in my left-field (or right brain?) thinking.

I know it was a serious quote (the one that ends in "clinically depressed"), but ... I found it funny. I laughed when I read it.

Because it's the truth. (And believe me, I've been clinically depressed, a lot.)

My friends and I often talk about how if you really look at reality, it's terribly depressing.

And then we laugh.

The best medicine.