Phone call with N mom has me in tears

[Gabben]

My mom just called.

I have not seen her in 3 years, I limit the time I speak with her on the phone because over the many years I have learned that the more time that I give her the more she tries to pry into my personal life and get into my head. I usually just let the conversations be about her, I do the listening.

My mom is super suspicious and suffers from paranoia, there is an official diagnosis on that.

My mom was questioning why I have not taken the long drive south to see her for over three years. She says "I have a feeling that you are up to something no good and that you are hiding it from me -- why else would you put me out of your life."

Of course she says this with a contemptuous tone and disdain.

My sister is already there today sending me emails to help buffer the pain. But it just hit me like a ton of bricks that my life has never been life in my mom's eyes---------she owns me and she can NOT see that I am a separate person from her with feelings, desires, ambitions, a heart, a mind, a body....It hit me that she has never recognized that I have an inner life, a complicated one, no doubt.

It is as if I do not even exists in her eyes as a separate human.

ugh!

I think the greatest hurt is not being capable of loving and accepting her. I beat myself up because she brings out the worst in me. The last thing I want to do is act nasty to her....but she is so frustrating. Just when I think I am making progress I take what feels like a huge step backwards.

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
 James gave me a wonderful gift ,today. He was an enlightened witness for me . He allowed me to really feel and cry about the pain with my M AND F.
 I saw their "evil"(lies). I saw how I was so vulnerable and they used my vulnerablity to hurt me . I saw how they betrayed me and my stomach ache went away.
 We carry so much pain,Lise.
 It is not your fault for whatever you feel .
 Your M hurt you terribly.
  Whatever you feel is OK, Lise.   Love    Ami

You have survived with sheer will and intelligence. You are a beautiful person.
 

[Gabben]

Dear Lise,
 James gave me a wonderful gift ,today. He was an enlightened witness for me . He allowed me to really feel and cry about the pain with my M AND F.
 I saw their "evil"(lies). I saw how I was so vulnerable and they used my vulnerablity to hurt me . I saw how they betrayed me and my stomach ache went away.
 We carry so much pain,Lise.
 It is not your fault for whatever you feel .
 Your M hurt you terribly.
  Whatever you feel is OK, Lise.   Love    Ami

You have survived with sheer will and intelligence. You are a beautiful person.
 

Hi Ami,

Thanks, I know that you are just trying to be helpful and kind.

I am OK with what I feel............I do not have the same shame and issues that you do.

How I feel is not an issue with me.
Feeling pain is not an issue with me.

Long ago I internalized the truth that my feelings are OK....long past that issue, Ami.

But that is where you are at right now in your healing so I can understand why you project that I must not be OK with my feelings.

It is not the feelings or pain that I have an issue with...it is the behavior of my N mom and the frustration.

I am just telling the story because sometimes just getting the story out is a helpful release; this way the pain is not stuck in my head and I can move on.

Thanks for trying to listen ((((((((Ami))))))))

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
 I am in a particular place right now that is probably overshadowing my ability to see outside of it. I am sorry you are hurting. I bet other people will be able to offer more that is related to your experience.    Love Ami

(((((((Lise))))))))

[Gabben]

Dear Lise,
 I am in a particular place right now that is probably overshadowing my ability to see outside of it. I am sorry you are hurting. I bet other people will be able to offer more that is related to your experience.    Love Ami

(((((((Lise))))))))

Thanks Ami -- I appreciate your objectivity.

[Chamomile]

Ami, you post really touched me. 

[Certain Hope]

I think the greatest hurt is not being capable of loving and accepting her. I beat myself up because she brings out the worst in me. The last thing I want to do is act nasty to her....but she is so frustrating. Just when I think I am making progress I take what feels like a huge step backwards.

Lise,

This is what gets to me, also... when I can't seem to get beyond some of my own knee-jerk reactions to people who genuinely are frustrating and maddening, yet I wonder: when will I ever just accept that and quit being taken aback by it?!!??! I get so tired of the same old battles.

Well, something hurt me today and finally, this evening, I cried...
and as I was crying, I was fully aware that my hurt feelings and sadness in this case were just as much my "fault" as the other person's (long story) and I could have prevented the outcome which caused me pain. That is frustrating... and so I cried some more, until finally the thought hit me - - okay, so it's cool that you're not blaming the other person, but you don't have to blame yourself, either... just let the tears provide the release they were intended to offer.

I'm sorry if this sounds lame, Lise, but the thought which changed my entire perspective tonight was simply:
It's okay to just cry, without assigning blame - - either to the other, or to yourself - - and the peace will follow.
So I think it's  the blaming (including blaming myself) which stirs that old pot and prevents the release toward peace, renewing that whole vicious circle of feeling awful and hopeless.
These old cycles of thinking don't just roll over and give up, that's for sure. Oh, how I wish they did!

Thinking of you and praying, too, with love,
Carolyn

[Gaining Strength]

I think the greatest hurt is not being capable of loving and accepting her.

I think this is one of the most difficult things to get over with an N mother.  We all need so much from a mother - the very core of existence depends on a mother's nurturing.  If our mother cannot be there for us, provide us with emotional support, at any stage of our life, then we experience significant loss.

Were she able to offer you emotional support do you think you would be able to love and/or accept her?  I think if I had that from my mother it would be much easier.

You say she has been diagnosed with paranoia, is there any other diagnosis along with that?  From your description, it sounds as if there is even more going along with her.

My heart is with you and boy do I get the frustration you describe.

[Hopalong]

Carolyn, you golden mind, thank you for this:

it's cool that you're not blaming the other person, but you don't have to blame yourself, either... just let the tears provide the release they were intended to offer.

Golden heart, too.

xolovexo
Hops

[Gabben]

I'm sorry if this sounds lame, Lise, but the thought which changed my entire perspective tonight was simply:
It's okay to just cry, without assigning blame - - either to the other, or to yourself - - and the peace will follow.
So I think it's  the blaming (including blaming myself) which stirs that old pot and prevents the release toward peace, renewing that whole vicious circle of feeling awful and hopeless.
These old cycles of thinking don't just roll over and give up, that's for sure. Oh, how I wish they did!

No, it is not lame at all. As a matter of fact it is so healthy. I know that place...when it hits you that you cannot control, you cannot change, you cannot undo, and you cannot fix. Instead, it just hurts and there is nothing you can do about it, right?

That is the place of healing -- the path that leads out.

I wish I could have been there to put my arm around your shoulder as you cried. I know you would have done the same for me.

There is a reason that our tears our salty. Salt acts as a purifier, I always say that when we cry we are purifying our souls.

These old cycles of thinking don't just roll over and give up, that's for sure. Oh, how I wish they did!

Me too.

But I am glad that there are people like you to share and go through these cycles with. ((((((((()))))))))

Lise

[Gabben]

I think this is one of the most difficult things to get over with an N mother.  We all need so much from a mother - the very core of existence depends on a mother's nurturing.  If our mother cannot be there for us, provide us with emotional support, at any stage of our life, then we experience significant loss.

Thanks GS -- yes, what you wrote about is exactly the loss that is hitting me today. What year I am having! The pain just keeps coming and coming up, hopefully out. It feels like regression, if you know what I mean?

Your words helped to touch that pain in me and really embrace the loss of protection, the loss of emotional support the lost of tender motherly love. I thought that I had grieved this but I think that sometimes we just do not now the depths our own losses.

You say she has been diagnosed with paranoia, is there any other diagnosis along with that?  From your description, it sounds as if there is even more going along with her.

Well, that diagnose was told to me by my adopted father when I was a teen. She now  is 25 years clean in AA. It is clear that she suffers from narcissism too. I can't know much else because I am not a doctor and other than what my dad told me I have nothing more to go on except my heart and my experience.

I AA there is a line that says "there are some among us that are sicker than others but they too can recover if they have the capacity to be honest."

My mom does have the capacity to be honest, she has grown and healed some and I have respect for her for staying sober for so long. But, she had a horrible childhood and a horrible mom too.

"My heart is with you and boy do I get the frustration you describe."

Thanks GS, this helps take the loneliness out of the experience. Sometime that is the best relief for shame.

[Gabben]

I decided that healing myself was the best way to "honor" my parents...

Yes, this is a good reminder. So much of the reason that I have not spent time with my mom is because I am trying to overcome the painful memories of my childhood which have erupted again more this past few years. Being around my mom will not be healthy for me or helpful.

So then I cannot tell my mom this because she explodes in anger at me and starts going off on me about how I feel sorry for myself and my childhood and how bad it was and how bad of a mother she was too me, all said with angry sarcasm and made to humiliate me.

Thanks PR.

Lise

[Ami]

My M, the "therapist(LOL) does this ,too. I have to make HER feel good about herself. That involves lying about history.     Ami

[Iphi]

(((Lise)))  I hear you. 

[sKePTiKal]

Lise, I still talk to my mom on the phone - using a lot of techniques to protect myself, without being dishonest. But I can't - wouldn't even think of - discussing my healing with her. She would immediately tell me what was wrong with it and me... there is just no point. She wouldn't have a "motherly" response... and I just don't think I could bear facing that.

So, I let the conversation be all about her, as much as she wants... I think all she really wants is for someone to listen (so did I... huh??)...so that's what I do. That is the extent of our relationship. I'm amazed she remembers my husband's name since she only met him once; about 10 years ago. I haven't seen her in about 10 years. And in the 28 years since I moved away - she's visited me exactly 3 times.

Substitute moms - that's what we need from time to time... maybe I should start a "rent-a-mom" service!  I sure have days when I could use one. Someone to run to & hug us & kiss it & make it all better... and maybe give us a cookie, too! Ya know what though? I can be a better mom to myself than my mother... so I do mother myself... (and no, it's not the same...) but I'm a lot better mom, than my mother and it really does help almost as much.