Author Topic: My part re my daughter?---  (Read 2597 times)

Izzy_*now*

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My part re my daughter?---
« on: May 01, 2008, 04:46:41 PM »
Hello All,  [EdIT IN: Please let me know if you understand, or am I still.........in need of guidance]

I have been putting ideas together from my experience with my daughter in an effort to understand the affect that my dysfunction had on her.

I must begin, though, with the ancestral dysfunction which was carried forth. I didn’t know who I was, as I have said many times and it has taken me a long time to come to terms with that. In the meantime, the missing parts of me, left gaps for my daughter, and she, too, had to try to understand the dysfunction, and how much she 'inherited'.

A mother is a person who is “supposed to know“, maybe an enemy and maybe very caring, but my daughter didn't see me as a woman with 'bad' problems and experiences. (She did say my disability was a problem for her.) One thing I never did was criticize my daughter, but she felt that I did. So who is right? I didn't continue to mother, just felt I 'must have a part somewhere' and she never sought my approval. She kept secret the things I ought not have to know. She was entitled to that. (My own experience.) Letting her be her own woman was important, as in how she ran her home, how she raised her children and I saw that she did it with more ease than I did.. Why? (I was constantly aware that I was an ‘illegitimate’ mother, and perhaps tried too hard?) My mother was still trying to mother me when I was 40. Hmmm. My daughter DID see me as having a shit*y life and has said so many times.

So we struggled with our relationships as adults. We didn't hear each other properly. She would hear me say something and think, 'She wants to control me. She is nosy' And I was saying something that might have been absolutely controlling, but was not meant to be. Meanwhile, when she spoke (wrote) I  heard nothing but anger — in a comment that did convey anger but also "I love you, and can't we do this differently?" That could work both ways. Good communication is often lost because of old patterns.

I expect that decisions I made caused her young life to be difficult. I see that turning to anger, and we never talked about it., being she married young, so the “me” that I was became a part of her, unresolved and went everywhere with her, just as would her legs and arms. (Keeping in mind she married an N and was now being emotionally abused by him for the next 10 years, and about now? I don't know. One child lives with dad.)

I carried a lot of guilt and she finally realized I am who I am (or was who I was) because of the things that happened to me, and I did the best I could. (How over-used that phrase is!) She might have begun to see some of me in her. (I gathered that from some emails.) Scary??  I met up with an N! and was most mortified that my daughter knew I could make that error, later in my  life.

As a mother I knew so very little about myself that I placed away too much emphasis on how my daughter and grandchildren were turning out, from looking inward and fearing my dysfunction was into another generation, rather than doing something about understanding myself  What could I do to find out what was wrong? Was it really something awful or something simple?’  I needed honest communication from her and she needed that with me. (I have also mentioned that my first vist re therapy, I was 19 and I was in and out of therapy until this last therapist = 50 years. I tried!!)

As I read about other mothers and daughter I see there is an awful lot of tension, withholding, and misunderstanding. The daughter can be who she wants to be because the mother is who she wants to be (or is she just not seeing dysfunction, let alone able to admit it?) and I think mothers ought to understand that. If daughters have trouble getting through being an adolescent, it's often because they don't know who they are. They might try to fit in, or be extremely rebellious and the spunk (if they had it!) as a little girl becomes lost and they lose touch with where they thought they were headed. My daughter and I forget much of some years, as they just passed and I felt she was doing so well, 'she didn't need me'--meant lovingly, as I saw her as an adult long before she was mature, so far different from me in my years at her age.

I remember telling my mother about the choices I allowed my daughter to make and I think she was impressed with the fact that I was able to give her the freedom to make a decision that was going to affect her life. I think my mom would have liked to be able to do that more for me, if she had been raised in a different time. She might have even thought back to her mother at that point.

We were not Ns but we were dysfunctional. My mom said, ”I love you” to me only once…on her death bed. Yet all my life she withheld herself emotionally, from her children.

I did read a number of posts on a thread BOARD about estrangements. There are many and it is sad. I am happy that she and I have come to conclusions about thoughts I've had and I have finally let go. I was hanging on for dear life before.

All in all, I think I was an enigma..... might still be.

Izzy
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 06:01:33 PM by Izzy_*now* »
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

Leah

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2008, 05:25:05 PM »
Hi Izzy,

I am truly happy for you to have reached an understanding of your mother, and also, that you have an understanding, and relationship, with your daughter.

I pray without ceasing that that could be for me, with my mother, as sadly, my mother has not only been an emotional danger to me, and her other children, but, she has also been a physical danger to me, the details of which I won't ever share about.

That is the difference, not all mothers are the same.  My mother is sadly, quite ill.   She is adamant that she does not want to change.

I would be absolutely delighted to receive an email from my mother, or a letter, in which she expressed genuine remorse, and change, and a desire for a relationship, as that is my heart's desire, to have a mother's genuine unconditional love. 

My mother has never told any of her children, that she loves them.

The truth is, I have not known a mother's love, in any form, instead, only cruelty.

Regarding your mention of the postings of estrangements, here on the board.   Estrangement, as in No Contact, has served to restore my physical health, and also, my emotional health and well being. 

Again, I am very happy for you, dear Izzy, in all that you have accomplished, for you, and for the relationship you now enjoy with your daughter.

Love and kindest regards,

Leah x
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 05:36:05 PM by LeahsRainbow »
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Izzy_*now*

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2008, 06:11:12 PM »
Dear Leah,

I do wish for you what you wish for yourself, and am sorry about your mother being a 'danger' to all.

Regarding your mention of the postings of estrangements, here on the board.   Estrangement, as in No Contact, has served to restore my physical health, and also, my emotional health and well being

I believe in NC re Ns. I meant in my post that I had read on another BOARD (I've corrected it now) and it was all about estrangements. I will add that many were from mothers, and the tone in some posts was one of anger and entitlement, self-righteousness and guilt-free.

There are one so blind as cannot see.

My mother has never told any of her children, that she loves them.

The truth is, I have not known a mother's love, in any form,


It is amazing how those could be my words yet the two mothers are so different. My mother was never cruel. She was just......there.
Love
Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

gratitude28

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2008, 06:44:09 PM »
You know what Izzy???
You can go over and over what you did, what happened, good choices, bad choices, the whole shebang.
But what it boils down to is: you are willing to meet your daughter at any level and try to have a relationship. She seems unwilling. I think it takes a big person to be where you are, and to open yourself up. If my mother could, or would, ever be open or honest with me, I would try my best to make things work with her. You are giving your daughter that chance. If she can't accept that, then the problem lies on her end, not yours.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Izzy_*now*

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2008, 07:03:06 PM »
Oh Beth,

You  misinterpreted.................

By admitting out loud to her, her telling me things, my honest responses, we are okay. Her honest reasons for anger, and most of all, I was hanging on, hanging on, but as a result of these honesties, I can let go and be me and allow her to be her.

We are okay!
LOve Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

gratitude28

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2008, 07:27:02 AM »
Then - Yippee!!!! I am very glad to hear you are in a good place with your daughter now, Iz. Sorry I saw it wrong!! But remember it took a look of courage and soul-baring on your part to get there!!!
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Leah

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2008, 07:46:12 AM »

Thank you, Izzy

I think that is why Serenity is so vitally important to me, because I cannot change anyone, or anything.  I can't expect my mother to change, instead, all I can do is pray, with real hope, that she will have a desire within her to change - how she treats ALL people. 

I love my mother and I do feel compassion and sadness, that she does not desire my love for her, or the love of her other children.

I feel saddened that my mother has not enjoyed her life, is not enjoying her life, in any shape or form, for she can't see the beauty of life and people, the kindness and caring of people - which makes her recoil.  She can only glean enjoyment by making and seeing others suffer, as a consequence of her evil games (yes, what she has done to so many people, is evil).

I went back to my mother - three times.  And each time, was a worse experience and outcome than previous.  I have forgiven, but I can't take anymore, not the same and worse, again.

I know that my life story is one that is similiarly real to multitudes of people, worldwide.

It's not just me, I am not unique, in that there are multitudes who have gone through the same pain - that's the simple reality of life.

Just grateful to be alive and living, and hope to make the most of the days ahead. My best friend had to leave, due to cancer, and she was so young, and had to leave her little child behind  (both father and child were lost without her). 

Not a day goes by when I don't miss her and think of her last words to me "Leah, I love you" 

She truly meant those words.

Thank you for the opportunity to share Izzy, and please know that I have every respect for you - for the soul searching and soul baring that you have so diligently worked through - to the effect and outcome of good fruit in your life with your dear daughter.

Love, Leah
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 08:19:39 AM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

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Ami

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2008, 07:52:25 AM »
Leah
 What a poignant post.What heartfelt thoughts and feelings about your life and you expressed them to reach right in to my own heart.
 I am so sorry that a precious person like you was hurt so,so terribly, Leah.   Love   Ami


((((((((Leah)))))))))
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Leah

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2008, 08:20:59 AM »

Bless you (((((( Ami ))))))

Truly, I am surprised at myself for openly sharing.

I do feel free, I really do. 

And I am in wonder at it too.

Love to you,

Leah x
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Iphi

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2008, 01:33:19 PM »

Izzy it makes me happy that you and your daughter have come to a good place and it seems to me that it was your love for each other that helped you get there and kept you going on the way.
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant

Izzy_*now*

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2008, 01:48:49 PM »
Thank you Beth

....for the yippee. Glad we are on the same page.

and thank you again, Leah, for your post.

It's not mothering, and it is not the age of the mother, but if she cannot own her problems, then it would appear all is lost., and I am sorry.

and thank you Iphi
...for being happy for us, for our overcoming and understanding the dysfunction between us.

Love to you three

and AMI

Have you no kind comment for my post, or are you just following Leah around?

Your lack of acknowledgement to the thread could, in effect, be misconstrued in various ways with various negative reactions unspoken..

Also this is the way a thread becomes hijacked, by not replying to the original post, or at least on topic.

Please remember that!

Izzy
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 01:50:30 PM by Izzy_*now* »
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

Gabben

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2008, 02:44:08 PM »
Hi Izzy,

I'm not going to respond to the original topic on this thread but I will respond to what you wrote on the last post because I really have to agree with it.

There are several people here on this board who will post on someones thread to another poster without regard to the thread maker and their topic. I consider it a very mild form of gaslighting, or whatever it is, it is disrespectful and I think people with passive hidden agendas do it on purpose here, not always, but sometimes to hurt others. It is cowardly behavior.

Right on for speaking up here:

"Also this is the way a thread becomes hijacked, by not replying to the original post, or at least on topic."

Lise
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 02:49:28 PM by Gabben »

debkor

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2008, 02:45:11 PM »
Iz,

No I don't think you need any guidance and your right on.  I understand where your coming from as you do your daughter, and her, understanding you.  

Life is complicated and sometimes, we do not know what to do, or think we did the right thing, and sometimes we see results of something we had nothing to do with or very much so.  And we have to dig and own what we are responsible for and sometimes that is learning about ourselves, as well, as others, such as our children.

And then there may be conflict and mis understanding, like you say.  Happens all the time and relationships go to hell and stay unresolved.  

But you never struck me as a person to let things go unresolved.  You always struggled to find a way.  This struggle was not on the outside where you had to adapt to a new way of living, such as, certain restaurant's, and how you make your bed, you always found a way to just do it. You had to change things but you still found an a way.
So this I knew you would find a way to, to resolve issues, with your D and this required you going inside this time to your very soul and feelings and I never doubted you would or could not do it.

I am very happy for you both Iz.  I never doubted this would happen.  I just didn't know when.  And yes I'm sure you D See's some of you in her.  You are both very brave and strong women.

I... am....... HAPPY for you BOTH.... now write that book, I love happy endings...

Love
Deb





Izzy_*now*

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2008, 02:58:17 PM »
Thank you Gabben

for your response and agreement about how a thread becomes hijacked. At least you were speaking to me.

Just nip things in the bud.

and Deb


Thank you for your great post, as it shows your faith in me and your understanding.

As she and I delved into our liife together, we touched on things the other had not thought an issue and left it to fester. We ought to have spoken up, but she was the growing child and I was the mother. I take the responsibility for the incidents.

Having been a growing child myself, at one time, I know the difficulty in speaking up (but I don't think I knew how) and I also know how some things just festered in me about my parents, but they won't be resolved.  I had to set that aside and look at how that had damaged me and how that might have affected my daughter. It did and we recognized the areas.

Thanks for your posts
xx
Izzy
"The joy of love lasts such a short time, but the pain of love lasts one's whole life"

Iphi

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Re: My part re my daughter?---
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2008, 03:06:28 PM »
Izzy and Lise and all - wow not to turn the subject but as an aside, I have to say that I have never considered this aspect of posting and addressing a response to another responding poster within the topic and how that impacts the original poster.  I am sure I have done this - maybe even today!   I will try to be more sensitive to this issue from here on out.

And Izzy I think it is crucial that you take responsibility as the adult.  Nobody is perfect and knows the absolute right way to do anything, but it is deeply confidence inspiring to hear someone you look up to say they take responsibility.  Long time ago, I tried to talk with my dad about some festering stuff that happened when I was a kid and he passed it off and blamed me.  I said "I was a kid."  It was an impasse.  I was more disappointed in his overall refusal to take any responsibility or acknowledge my separate perspective than I was about the incidents in the past, well and the way it was impossible to close out those issues too.  So to me the work you and your daughter have been able to do together, is extremely satisfying to know about even vicariously - that you guys can grow, resolve, communicate, keep flowing on.  It's reassuring to hear because it reaffirms my feeling that it is valuable, healthy and worth striving for.  As opposed to the crash & burn experience in my own family.
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant