Noticing a pattern

[Ami]

 I noticed s/one "insulted " by s/one else. The insulted person had to make it "right" with the person who insulted them. The insulted person had to be SO "forgiving" so 'including the other person IN her life.
 The insulted person was not able to "push away" what needed to be pushed away , not able to have a defined self which  pushes out "sickness."
 I have done this many, many times. I have been too "forgiving" . It  was NOT forgiveness ,but not having a self I valued enough to protect and stand  for.
 It is what abused people do. They COMFORT the abuser---bleh.
 Does anyone relate?      Ami

[Iphi]

Yes I always comforted people after they were nasty to me, especially my dad, the prototype relationship.  It's like I was trying to show him I did not take offense and was 'safe' to him.  My dad is a person in distress and in suffering.  I want to help and always have.  His distress is evident in his lashing out too.  He's like an animal in a trap, driven mad trying to escape.

I think though that trying to help and comfort and appease and reaffirm loyalty to the one hurting you is part of a betrayal bond.

I'm still not clear on it all.  It does not seem wrong to want to help and I truly feel badly for my dad and he is in distress, yet also it is so obvious that I have been misguided in a number of ways. 

But ... the continual unbalanced unreciprocal hey - abusive nature of the relationship - it demands a differnet and better approach.  I think.

[Ami]

Dear Iphi
 It is about the "larger' reason that we could NOT have our own integrity. We could not take care of our needs for congruence within ourselves. We had to turn outward and worry about our N parent and then , the rest of the world.Our needs for congruence had to be last and then ,not at all.
 Do you agree, Iphi?     Ami

[Gabben]

Hi Ami,

This past year I read a book called Cinderella and her Step-Sisters about the envying and the envied.

Did you ever consider that the person who was insulted was simply just turning the other cheek?

Cinderella was perpetual cheek turner, insulted, oppressed, denied, abused. But did she begrudge? Did she retaliate? Did she play the victim role? Did she seek pity? NO.

She saw what was happening to her and she saw who her ugly stepsisters were yet she continued to serve them with gentleness and hope in the goodness of life overcoming the bad, one day. Her goodness was why her stepsisters envied her.

She never despised them as they despised her.

There is even one version of the story, where at the ball, Cinderella feeds her stepsister oranges which are a delicacy. Even after they oppress her, abuse her and deny her she feeds them, forgives them, and loves them.

Why should she not?


I should learn from Cinderella unless that person is a P or an N....then I am running for my life so that I can spread my goodness to others where it will not be taken and smashed.
Lise

[Ami]

I think the difference ,Lise, would be in having the ability to chose your own response. If you HAD to placate and be servile out of fear or if you were chosing to respond to hate with love.
 The outward action could look the same, but the internal motivation would be very different. Often,with an abused person, they HAD to placate ,so they could manage their parent's anger and continued the same patten in to other relationships.            Ami

[Iphi]

Ah I think I grasp what you are saying Ami.  That I acted as if my survival absolutely depending on my dad's whim and that is not, subjectively, a place of choice but of absolute desperation.  Whereas, as in the Cinderella examples Lise is thinking of, Cinderella is coming from a place of great internal strength, not scared witless and in a sheer survival mode - somehow she is coming from a place where she feels free of that dynamic and that freedom gives her strength to turn the other cheek. 

She is fed by internal springs of love and safety, that external tempests cannot threaten, it seems to me. And so she can share the bounty that she experiences internally, though we see the externals and say - it seems incredible.

How to get to such a place?

[Gabben]

I think the difference ,Lise, would be in having the ability to chose your own response. If you HAD to placate and be servile out of fear or if you were choosing to respond to hate with love.
 The outward action could look the same, but the internal motivation would be very different. Often,with an abused person, they HAD to placate ,so they could manage their parent's anger and continued the same patten in to other relationships.            Ami

This past year I have worked through deep.................deep layers of victim anger. The bitterness of my heart has been vanishing everyday and I sit with my pain and let it evaporate and pray for those that hurt me rather than curse them.

 It is a wonderful thing for as the more tears I cry the more I can see. I can see others in their shame and arrogance but I cannot find contempt in my heart to go along with my views of them. That is the wonderful thing about true growth in the spirit, or emotional maturity; besides the peace it brings it also brings tolerance and the ability to want to help people who are hurting, even if their unhealed aggression is directed towards me.

I can't change anyone but I can change me.

Love,
Lise

[Ami]

Ah I think I grasp what you are saying Ami.  That I acted as if my survival absolutely depending on my dad's whim and that is not, subjectively, a place of choice but of absolute desperation.  Whereas, as in the Cinderella examples Lise is thinking of, Cinderella is coming from a place of great internal strength, not scared witless and in a sheer survival mode - somehow she is coming from a place where she feels free of that dynamic and that freedom gives her strength to turn the other cheek. 

She is fed by internal springs of love and safety, that external tempests cannot threaten, it seems to me. And so she can share the bounty that she experiences internally, though we see the externals and say - it seems incredible.

How to get to such a place?

This is my point, Iphi. It is about having the ability to chose versus HAVING to placate or be servile.
I am so happy for your progress, Lise!          Love  Ami