Lighter,
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that saying to someone, "you're a liar" - is a judgment on her character...
whereas saying to someone, "I don't believe you" - is the assignation of a boundary, the drawing of a line in the sand, even.
I think that's more like saying, "prove it".
This is the approach I took with npd-ex. All I got in response was bluster and more smokescreens. That's how you know what you've got, in the end.
Speaking plainly is always an option... if you're detached from the outcome.
Carolyn
I can honestly say that I've seen this dynamic, in 3d and on the board.....
and there will always be those who deny it's bluster and smoke screen we're seeing, when we KNOW what it is.
Whether it's one group from this year or the last.... it's similar in that there's always going to be confusion surrounding it....
terrible thing.
Are you saying that "you know what you've got" is the operative phrase here?
I can't imagine a life where I have enough experience and knowledge about dark things to see the man behind the curtain..... and not be able to talk about it bc of those who say they don't see it...... so I must be wrong.... along with judgemnts about making that observation.
That's something I'm going to have to think about for a while.
OK...
Here's where the circle comes back around.
I make an observation, "I don't believe you."
That can be perceived as a negative criticism and will be turned into one by a gaslighter, always. Thats the way they work.
SO..... whoever was on the receiving end of the observation will come back with an observation of their own....
they might claim that statement to be "an attack, gaslighting, predatory, cruel" for instance.... sometimes their supporters do it for them.
Now... thats just an observation on their part, right?
Though it makes a statement on one's character, no doubt. Just an observation bc they say it is.
My point is.... if they're response is THE smokescreen... the blustering.... how does one tell the difference, when standing on the outskirts of the skirmish?
You say it's the form.
Had they come back with a response that drew boundaries, questioned and asked for clarification.... then we would see the absense of blustering and gaslighting?
When the form takes on criticism, namecalling, judgements..... then we know what we've got?
Sort of depends on the maturity of the people involved, I think.
Thank you
Yes, Lighter... for me, "you know what you've got" has been the operative phrase here.
Here's my own situation...
I have a strong inclination to avoid difficulties... and especially confrontations.
I also have a very dangerous old habit of filling in the blanks (of all the questions I didn't ask, because I'm avoidant,) with material out of my own active and presumptive imagination.
I may wind up framing an accurate portrait, but who can say for sure?
They say that knowledge is power...
but that is true only when the knowledge is applied with wisdom.
If I have enough experience and knowledge to see the Wiz for what he is, then what?
Hopefully I have the wisdom to know what to do with that knowledge.
Trying to show others how my knowledge of the Wiz applies to them would not be wise, imo.That'd be like parking outside a magic act, with an audience full of true believers, and trying to convince them that it's all a hoax. That magician just pulled a rabbit out of little Joey's ear... surely I'm mistaken. Yeah huh. I'd expect to be seen as a spoiled sport... at best.
Lighter... I've pondered these things alot, for example - with regard to Christian ministries that I don't believe are authentic or accurate. Is that where my locus of focus is supposed to be placed? I don't want to choose to live on the dark side in that way.
There are already more than enough heresy-hunters on the market.
Uncovering it for ourselves is one thing... but when we get this irresistable urge to talk about it, on and on, that's the time for us to examine our own motivation, I think.
Because really, I think then that it's shifted over into the arena of vengeance. more than any sort of justice... cuz justice will always come to those who fake their way through life anyhow.
Speak up, speak out, and then let it go... that's what works for me, I'm finding.
Letting go means doing our own part to lighten the load of others who
aren't hiding behind the curtain.
Why would I care so much what the "outsiders" think?
I think that's the real question.
Do I require validation so much that I can't go on without trying to dredge it up?
Don't I trust my own experience?
Others might get enveloped by the smokescreen for any number of reasons...
maybe they're simply too busy with their own stuff to turn on the fan...
but that's not my business.
Don't we each have enough stuff of our own to sort without devoting so much energy into trying to make others see something that may be meant only for us?
Had they come back with a response that drew boundaries, questioned and asked for clarification.... then we would see the absense of blustering and gaslighting?
When the form takes on criticism, namecalling, judgements..... then we know what we've got?
Yes, I think so.
NPD has a uniquely obnoxious method of defending by attacking... and I won't mess with it.
Sort of depends on the maturity of the people involved, I think.
Partly, yes... and anybody can grow and change...
but watching what happens next often provides the rest of the story.
The one who continues to dig his hole deeper and shovel dirt atop anyone who gets in the way... well, yanno.
Thanks to you, too.
Carolyn
