Narcissistic Parent Thoughts

[Lizbeth as Guest]

My schizophrenic mother had the pediatrician tranquilize me at age two so she could "cope" with me.  
Lizbeth

Thanks, Bunny for your comments -
I think you are right.  She definitely is a sick puppy.  If I screamed and cried when she dragged me into the bathroom, she'd give me some of her tranqulizers, tablespoons of brandy, anything to make me docile.   She would break open her librium capsule, sprinkle some of the powder into my little hand and make me lick it off.  You see, if I protested too much, it was clear in her sick eyes that I was misbehaving and needed to be controlled by her.  Control. Control. Control.  Dad just ignored it all.  As I write this, I can't believe I still care what happens to her.  Wish I didn't have that damn moral obligation to a mother, just because it is the right thing to do.

And Thank you, Les.  
I love your image of rising out of the swamp, pushing away the clay to reveal our strong core.  I love rocks, so think I'll look for a special one to remind me of your image.
I have Dr Cunningham's "the Healing Journey" so I'll treat myself to a trip to Chapters and look for the one you suggest.  He has been an inspiration for me.  And I'm going to look for the latest book by Alice Miller.  I read somewhere that it addresses the N issue, as well, so will let you know what I learn.



And a Huge "Thank you" Dr. G.
for providing this safe place for us to talk about our experiences, and to learn from one another.  I have not yet met or heard of anyone who has experienced the sort of abuse that I unfortunately did.     A few years ago, my GP and ob/gyn sent me for therapy, for 'severe childhood trauma and abuse'.  Things came to light when I was unable to carry three babies to full term, and it appears that the constant internal  prodding for almost twenty years might have done some damage that resulted in my not being able to bear a child.  Then when I had chemo, it ended any further hope.  Unfortunately, about a year ago, we moved away from all my support system, including my pastor, and this new town is too small for me to feel confident in any anonymity, and for some reason, I feel I still must keep this secret, for fear of hurting my mother's image (she is 85 and I am hoping to see her through to the end of her days).  Therefore, I am struggling to stay strong, day by day.  My H is my rock.  This board is a huge help, and I thank you for it...we both thank you for it.
I can hardly believe I am opening up like this, but I think it is healing to be able to tell The Truth.  I hope it is safe.  I have difficulty Trusting, as you can imagine.

[lizbeth as Guest]

My schophrenic mother was the cause of my eating problems and bulemia due to her forcing me from I think around age 2 until at least 5 to sit up until all hours of the night if I wouldn't clean my plate.  I remember sitting there until at least 2 am.  

What is it about Nmothers and their childrens bathroom habits?  My incredibly sociopathic/pathologically narcissistic mother wiped my little brothers bottom until he was 8 yrs old (or older).  I developed a gastrointestinal disturbances before the age of 1 yrs old - and later devloped Crohn's disease in elementary school.  

My mother used to forcefeed my brother - smashing him in the face when he wouldn't eat - leaving him to sit there for hours - falling alseep with his face in his food.  I would be surprised if my Nmother didn't do this to me as well.

Why do these women feel the desire to get THAT involved with their children's of fecal elimination?

[Anonymous]

For Control.

[les]

Thanks OnlyMe.
 
I went back to teaching today and I always stop at the Self Doubt Depot and  load up - great big fat helpings. I think technically it's called, "anticipatory anxiety" but I kill half of the boreal forest zeroxing everything in sight so that I'm super prepared. Anyway, I said to myself ...self, your entire self-worth is not tied up with how good a teacher you are.  You are a good decent person and OnlyMe even said that you were helpful so just let that be enough!!

So OnlyMe you helped me too.

Les

[mighty mouse]

Hey Les,

Have you calmed down a bit since getting back into the swim of teaching again? I'm not posting or actually reading much these days but I still think of you and hope you're doing well.

MM

[kelly]

Boy, I just read those posts and am about to cry myself.  Beady eyes?  My mom's face has the biggest frown.  Her countenance when she is with me is just so downtrodden.  Maybe because she is REALLY trying to show her disapproval since I have my new found boundaries.  Only problem is I hammer her with boundaries.  It is the only way I know how to set them.  I have no finesse.  I just hatchet her.  I won't let her close and I guess that hurts her.  Yes, it hurts her that I won't let her manipulate me anymore........................but whenever possible, she'll give me the one, two punch and I am usually taken off guard.

What to do?  I have also found a new strength in this forum and have run here everyday since I signed up about a week or so ago.  Whining?  Maybe a little.  I guess I am just so grateful to have a sympathetic ear after all these years.  My mother, too is a well respected and influential person in our town so I cannot betray her - easily.  Only the people who work for us have figured her out since they are with her day-in and day-out.  They have seen me leave her office balling my eyes out and just shake their heads.  I know they feel sorry for me.

Keep talking.  Keep leaning.  Thank you all for supporting all of us.  We need each other.  If we can give each other some baby steps which we can accomplish, eventually we can grow by leaps and bounds.  Until then, peace to you all.  
Kelly

[les]

Hi MM - I was hoping for a chance to catch up with you. I 've been wondering how you are and how your summer vacation went.

I'm actually pretty good. It's amazing. Sometimes I get this picture of bewildered tortured souls stumbling around in the universe, then a "worm hole" opens up and kurplunk, they plop down here... and begin to make sense of their lives.  I'm a different person than the meek space traveller that crash landed here 4 months ago. I'm as involved if not more involved in caring for my mother but I can do it now from a position of understanding and strength. I take care of myself, always, when I'm with her and so I have the emotional strength to truly be compassionate at times with this old needy woman.  ( this could all blow up tomorrow of course)

There was a program on tv last week called, "Rage against the darkness" -about nursing homes.  (maybe you saw it Only Me)  One of the women featured in the program was"Gert" -103 years old! She is full of spit and vinegar wit and charm. The staff think she is marvellous and in many ways she is. But her 73 year old daughter has had quite enough! Old Gert is a terror, a bully and no doubt an N. Yikes!  The program was called "Gert's secret." I think the "secret" to her long life was total self-absorption. Apparently she lived with her daughter for 37 years and according to her grandson didn't lift a finger and just barked orders at her daughter. Anywhoooo, there may be a looonnng road ahead with my mother and I need to live my life NOW. At this point, I feel like I've found the right mixture of self-care and mother care. Four months ago I felt like I was insane.

an aside to Kelly - how's it going? Is there anyway you can stay in the business but not work so closely with your mother.  What a conundrum for you. Perhaps the business needs to expand to a second office across town!!

Good to hear from you MM.  Would love to hear what's going on.  

Les

[OnlyMe]

I've been lying low lately, trying to recharge my batteries for my next three day trip to my Nm.  Good to hear your voice, Les - I think of you often, because we are travelling a similar path.  Yes, I caught one or two glimpses of that TV special, but it was a bit too close to home, so I couldn't watch.  Maybe I'll catch it when they replay it on Newsworld.  Just didn't have the strength, emotional or physical.  Even though I feel I have given every drop of strength that I have to my nM, I still feel major guilt just seeing those 'elder-abuse' ads on TV - thinking I should be doing more for her.  Truth is that she is doing much better than I, in her N ways - she is Queen of Everything!
Horrors!! at hearing of an old girl living to 103 with her daughter 73 yrs old!    Horrors of horrors!!!       Where to get the strength for this emotional marathon?!!!(':?:')
 
I'm getting ready for a three-day trip to my NM this weekend - old cousins visiting, so I have to help, etc - and so I am trying to prepare myself.  I can't believe that I have to start planning about a week in advance - what to wear, should I have my hair cut, what should I take, how should I act, how will I dodge the arrows, where will I get the strength to keep smiling while breaking inside, etc etc etc.  Plus these cousins are snowed by her phony ways, and I am the voiceless one.  It is a pathetic statement, I know, to have to go through all this physical, emotional and spiritual preparation just to visit one's mother.  And I always come home completely drained, for she always seems to hit me with something completely unexpected (as you said, it could all blow up at any moment)....see my dread already?!  It is the same old dance, every time, and I hate it.....but, I am the only one she has.  My dear H keeps having excuses to stay away, except for the major holidays, like Thanksgiving.  And I resent the time that my nM is taking away from my home-life, for I am sick in anticipation of visiting, I am drained while visiting, and then I am sick again when I get home - so my dear H basically loses me for at least a week every time.  I swear that my nM has some sort of evil power, for the mere presence of her weakens me, and I really really really resent that power of hers.  I'm working on it, but unfortunately, some times I am stronger than others.  I really meant it when I said in another post that I sometimes feel that the N is Evil.

Well, nevertheless, I guess I'm trying to keep up appearances, trying to do the right thing for my nmother, just as you are.  It is a huge job, isn't it?!  And the pain we suffer because of it all.  But 103 years old?!!!  Horrors - I/we can't keep it up for another twenty years, thats for sure!!!!!  
Good thing we found this group!  At least we know we're not alone.

[les]

Only Me - I hope this won't sound insensitive but a dear friend of mine who died of breast cancer last year would sometimes talk about playing the"cancer card." Two years ago I got us a lovely room overlooking the ocean and she asked me if I'd played the "cancer card"  to get the room so maybe this kind of talk is ok? You really have had such a struggle in your life Only Me; you are fighting to hang on to your health, your sanity, your day to day peace of mind. I URGE you to think of playing any card you have in your deck!!!! Oh my, you have the Flu already!! (or anything else - it certainly sounds like your immune system can't handle much since it is so compromised by this woman) The cousins will just have to manage. Or you have emergency tests, something, anything!! Ok, so if that doesn't work, what about going for 2 days. You could even go to Vancouver in 2 days!!  God I really do feel upset that you have to put yourself through this.  I realize lying isn't the long term answer here...truth is the answer - telling yourself the truth - that your mother is harming your very life. It is true, Only Me - there is no greater stressor in one's life I believe, no greater cause of disease. The truth is that you can't physically handle these long visits.

Believe that you are worth taking care of and maybe with your husband's help brainstorm some answers. Really focus on it. Not only are these 3 day visits not working for you, they may be killing you. Three hours is my limit after that I really start to come unhinged. I've heard that more than 3 hours with a pyschopath can do this!!

We need action here!!!!!!!! Best action - NO ACTION _ DON"T GO! DON"T GET YOUR HAIR CUT! DON"T GIVE A GOOD GOD DAMN WHAT THIS VERY SICK WOMAN THINKS! or the cousins - of course they are charmed by her...of course.  But we know OnlyMe, a whole lot of people know what this is all about and they have chosen to honour themselves and have a life..  Now say after me. I don't give
a flying F***! Honestly, the gut wrenching terror that you convey here is so god awful, so damaging that no one should spend a minute feeling what you feel, not one minute!!!!!

Ok Only Me I'm going to go out in the garden and calm down but I think your situation is so toxic,..so much more toxic than mine.  For one thing my brother and sister are really getting it and that validation is important. You don't have that.  This is like being slowly cannabilized.

I know you may feel that there is no way out. So lets work on that.  There is always a way.  There is. I just feel the urgency of your situation. Don't go away (from the board ) ok? Keep fighting for yourself OnlyMe.

Les

Les

[Anonymous]

Dear OnlyMe,

Much of the power Ns hold over us is the feeling of obligation, the "have to's".  Read over your post again and notice how many times you used that phrase, I have to...

What if you didn't?  (just being devil's advocate or voiceless advocate here   ).

What if you didn't stress yourself out, what if you didn't visit her, what if your cousins could manage on their own, what if they badmouthed you like crazy, what if you didn't care, what if you took care of yourself because no one else did while you were growing up.  

Don't let your Nmom keep you small and keep pushing you down into the ground.  If your cousins think you're rotten, ask them to do you a favor and take care of her for a while.  See what thanks they get.

My brother is subtly pushing me into the position of caring for major King Kong Eternal Patient NDad.  Reminds of a young girl at my kids' school urging everyone else to go be nice to the outcasts: Go be nice to her, go be nice to that person.  You do it.  

You don't have to.  

Peace, Seeker

PS to Les: know what you mean about the "card".  Ns are onto the game of competitive victimhood.  No one's suffering is greater than their own.  Every game they play they have to win.  That includes being sick.

[OnlyMe]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Les and Seeker.
You have helped me become stronger just now!  Thank you for taking the time to help me.  It was not wasted.

And, yes, Les - you are bang-on about the cancer reminder (Seeker, I'm in remission from C, and I'm trying hard to stay that way).  I have been under the weather this week, nothing serious, and have been trying to take care of my health b/c I know it hangs by a thread.  And yet, yes, I put myself through hell trying to be all that my nm expects me to be, all the while knowing, intellectually, that I will never be what she wants, no matter what I do.  And, also knowing that she doesn't give a hoot if it kills me.  
I can't thank you enough for your ideas, and I have been thinking - you have a point : Two days - so what if it doesn't suit Her completely? I'd have fewer changes of clothes to worry about (and I'll wear my baggy layers which annoy her completely but make me feel comfortable and safe, what the heck - I'll wear my HRenfrew shoes and purse to make up for it, haha!).  I'd have fewer hours of her insufferable self.  Excellent point.  In fact, I feel better, already, honestly!  My eyes puddled when I read your supportive words. I swear one of my muscle knots just loosened!  I've been living on 222's this week, for headaches and muscle knots, which I know are largley caused my anticipation of being with nM.  Honestly, I am not weak or stupid, but I seem to fall under her spell and lose all sight of myself, sometimes.  So, here I say :  "I don't give a flying F*** through a rolling donut." Now, I have to believe it!!
 
And Seeker, you have a good point about all my 'have to's'.  Very perceptive of you, and a very self-destructive habit of mine.  It made me think : who taught me this behaviour, after all?  Yup, the Nmother herself.  She is the one who taught me to bow down to her every wish, no matter what.  I have a deeply ingrained habit of putting her needs first, and that must stop.  She will outlive us all, probably.  (Horrors, thinking of that 103yr old woman, yikes!)

I sometimes find it hard to stay strong on my own, and my dear H does what he can.  I know he gets frustrated by the whole thing.  I try not to be a bother to anyone.  Therefore, I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate your supportive words.  They have given me a very healthy perspective, have helped reinforce what I truly know in my heart, and have given me a new strength tonight.  Thank you, and hugs to you both.

ps: nm phoned while I was just writing this, and I let it go to 'Call Answering' !  How's that for a positive step?!  

[Anonymous]

Boy, I wish I was brave enough to play ANY card.  The best I have done is stop going to her church, and as gracefully as I can refuse to attend some dinner that she bought a table at (usually fundraisers - they always hit her up.....)  I've got the support of my executive team - I just have to remember to NEVER have a meeting without them!!!!  (Not safe in a meeting alone with Nmom......................)  Sometimes I wish I could move out of town, that my husband would get transferred so I would have to move away..................but my kids are in high school and I hate to uproot them.  

And I also understand why you would want to go to be with cousins.  They can't understand that your mom is the way she is.  Isn't it true that N parents keep most of their "stuff" in the family of origin?  Aren't most others immune to it?  (Well, I guess I answered my own question - my employees are immune to her.......................)

My husband's parents are N, too, and I love what he does.  We go visit them but we stay at a hotel and we give them a few hours for dinner and visiting, but then we are out of there.  He says something like, "Well, I'm gonna go show Kell around, maybe we'll see you tomorrow....."  Can you believe that?  I could never do that to my mom.

Kelly

[les]

That's a girl!!! Go for it Only Me. " I don't give a friggin f*** through a rolling donut!!  That's the spirit!! More of it please!!  

I used to work with "mentally retarded" kids in the 60's.  I was a teenager. My mother sniffed, "Charity begins at home."  Now there is some reason why I just told you that but I'm not sure what it was! I guess it's about you being trained to always put your mother's needs first.

Two years ago, when I lost my voice, could hardly swallow and had surgery for essentially a stress -induced problem, my sister said. DON'T CARE SO MUCH!! DEATCH!!  SHE's HAD HER LIFE. YOU HAVEN"T HAD YOURS.  

SO sister girl I say keep it up. Such great advice from SEEKER. All these bloody HAVE TOs!! Your Nm gets all the WANT TOs and you get all the HAVE TOs. NO more OnlyMe

More Call answering, fewer 222's;

Keep taking those steps Kelly - for now those baby steps are giving you a tiny bit of breathing room, room to plan some bigger steps - we all need to take lessons from your husband!

One more thought - "my mother only has me." I know that tune so well even though I have a brother and a sister.  There's 'only you' is my Nm's theme song too and it's a tunless, dishonest, hackneyed, manipulative, piece of absolute and utter twaddle.  She disguises the fact that there are other people in her life, people that she gets alot of pleasure from.  I know the sad refrain is true on one level - you are the daughter, that's true, but not spare parts for her - not true.


 

Les

[Moonflower]

..........

[Ellie]

OnlyMe,
If you go - I am sending energy your way to have the strength for the first time in your life to do things "Your Way"!

Lyrics from the song "My Way":

For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught.
To say the things he truly feels;
And not the words of one who kneels.
The record shows I took the blows -
And did it my way!

 Take the blows, brush them off your shoulder, walk tall, keep your chin up, and every stictch of clothing you choose, the way you fix your hair, the words you say, the food you eat - THINK - 'I'm doing it MY WAY!"

Kelly,
As much as your Nmom has trained you and you have trained yourself to think you need this job - it is not true! There are other jobs out there, working for people who appreciate and value your talents. If you live in a small town where jobs are scarce, there are work from home opportunities. Please don't keep letting your mom drive your life for you. The only way to recupperate from the harm they have done is to get away from them. And if you could find another job, just think of the satisfaction of telling your Nmom you REALLY don't need her anymore! My Nparents had me believing all these years that I needed their gifts of money. They would send the kids money at Christmas and I used to think that my kids would not have a good Christmas without the money from the grandparents. Over the past couple of years, I stopped planning what I would buy for the kids with the grandparents money and started just giving them the money. Now I don't care if they ever send them a penny again. I weaned us from their hold.

They also had me believing that I couldn't make decisions without their input, but the input they gave was not at all what I wanted to hear, nor was it valid! So when I stopped talking to them and listening to them, I started making my own decisions and gaining the confidence that I could be RIGHT!

It is a weaning process, much like weaning your baby from breast feeding. It is painful and it is a separation, but in the end, it is a necessary process to have a healthy life for you and your children.

My Nparents tried to tell us they had my kids best interest at heart, but they were just trying to give my kids their spin on life and convince them that their parents were WRONG! Now my kids don't even know their grandparents. They laigh when they call because they know the grandparents are not calling to talk to them, but to make themselves feel good.