Author Topic: Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P  (Read 2444 times)

Gabben

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Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P
« on: April 25, 2008, 01:06:58 PM »
Edit: 6/12/08

This thread was started back in April. Because sociopathy is a current board topic I wanted to bring up this info yet not take away from the disscusion on Carolyn's thread on how to deal with sociopathy.
Lise



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Excerpts from 'The Emptied Soul' - by Adolf Guggenbuhl-Craig

"Another trait, important for everyone who deals with a psychopath, is their ability to evoke pity; the same kind of pity we feel towards invalids or experience for helpless and sick children. They seem completely helpless, lost in a world where they do not belong. Again and again they try to adjust and to cope, in a fashion that always falls a bit shy of the mark. They are eternal strangers, arousing in each of us a longing to help, a feeling we experience with helpless human beings. Often this pity creates difficulties, and many is the person who falls prey to it. We often try to be kind to these "poor" people, and they are "poor" people - our pity is justifiable. However the problem is that psychopaths readily manipulate those around them through just such pity. Women are often victimized: mothering instincts are aroused, or the Archetype of the Nurse is constellated. They want to protect and care for the poor, sick thing and understandably so, for psychopaths strike protective chords and speak to the desire to help and heal."

"[Therapists] who have to deal with psychopaths readily succumb to savior fantasies. Confronted by a phenomenon which simply should not be, which somehow must be changed, they set out to save these individuals.... We would like to believe that we can help anyone who comes, for whatever reasons, seeking our help. We would like to believe that no symptom, no complaint, no difficulty can withstand our talent, our ability, and our understanding. Here we get caught, as they say, between a rock and a hard place. Since psychopaths understand our weakness, our need to help them against our better judgment, they can use us, manipulating us to the point where we start defending them, writing letters of recommendation for them and the like. To take the situation one step further, we react to psychopaths as we react to all human beings. We feel pity and sympathy, savior fantasies are called forth, our feelings of mothering and fathering are awakened."


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"Everyone knows someone like this. The one I knew was a pretty, colleague who had a bit of a dishevelled appearance, a little-girl voice with a take-care-of-me helplessness which hid her self-serving goal."
member quote


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Question your tendency to pity too easily.
Respect should be reserved for the kind and the morally courageous.[/b] Pity is another socially valuable response, and should be reserved for innocent people who are in genuine pain or who have fallen on misfortune. If, instead, you find yourself often pitying someone who consistently hurts you or other people, and who actively campaigns for your sympathy, the chances are close to one hundred percent that you are dealing with a sociopath.

Related to this-- I recommend that you severely challenge your need to be polite in absolutely all situations. For normal adults in our culture, being what we think of as "civilized" is like a reflex, and often we find ourselves being automatically decorous even when someone has enraged us, repeatedly lied to us, or figuratively stabbed us in the back.Sociopaths take huge advantage of this automatic courtesy in exploitive situations.

Thirteen Rules for Dealing with Sociopaths in Everyday Life Martha Stout - Interview
Author: The Sociopath Next Door
http://www.bookbrowse.com/author_interviews/full/index.cfm?author_number=1097

From: Without Conscience, The Disturbing World of The Psychopaths Among Us by Dr. Robert Hare, Ph.D.
Set firm ground rules: Although power struggles with a psychopath are risky at best, you may be able to set up some clear ground rules, both for yourself and for the psychopath, to make your life easier and begin the difficult transition from victim to a person looking out for yourself. For example, this may mean that you will no longer bail him or her out of trouble, no matter what the circumstances.



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Playing the Victim Role
This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstance or someone else's behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that cover-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and hostile personalities usually can't stand to see anyone suffering. Therefore, the tactic is simple. Convince your victim you're suffering in some way, and they'll try to relieve your distress.
In Sheep's Clothing - Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People
by George K. Simon

http://www.amazon.com/Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Dealing-Manipulative/dp/096516960X

« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 11:51:57 AM by Gabben »

Gabben

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Re: Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2008, 01:28:55 PM »


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Helplessness and Neediness of Relationship Partners Maybe you get hooked by the neediness and helplessness of your relationship partners. You find yourself hooked when your partners get into self-pity, "poor me" and "how tough life has been." You find yourself weak when your relationship partners demonstrates an inability to solve personal problems.
10 Hooks that Keep you in Boundary-Less Relationships
http://www.coping.org/relations/boundar/alertb.htm



Why are narcissists so hard to leave? Narcissism is also about feelings of sadness and depression. So the classic narcissistic partner has this 'look-at-me' quality, but also has this 'oh poor me, I really need help.' They draw you in with the sadness and the emptiness and you feel that somehow you can fill this void. And you tell yourself, he really loves me -- even though he's cheating on me every other night of the week."
Review of Help! I’m in Love With a Narcissist, by relationship authors Julia Sokol and Steven Carter. (M. Evans and Co. by Kristin Dizon for Seattle Post Intelligencer
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/lifestyle/219049_narcissist07.html

But he does not need companionship, emotional support, let alone true partnership. There is no beast on earth more self-sufficient than a narcissist. Years of unpredictability in his relationships with meaningful others, early on abuse, sometimes decades of violence, aggression, instability and humiliation - have eroded the narcissist's trust in others to the point of disappearance. The narcissist knows that he can rely only on one stable, unconditional source of love: himself.
MALIGNANT SELF LOVE  NARCISSISM RE-VISITED UNIQUENESS AND INTIMACY By: SAM VAKNIN, Ph.D.
http://samvak.tripod.com/msla2.html



darren

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Re: Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2008, 01:43:12 PM »
Those sound like a lot of things I'm all too familiar with.  When my Nrelationship ended, I found myself in a very messed up position.  I was sad, angry, scared, and even a bit suicidal.  One thing I was though, was learning to think clearly and spot issues.  It seemed I was more afraid of being alone and wanted that less than being in a chaotic abusive relationship.

I definately pitied her, and did everything I could to try and help her to no avail.  Something else I noticed, is that when you spend so much time with somebody who does such awful things it makes it hard to see your own issues.  I mean, I could literally do no wrong for six years.  I saw myself as an incredibly great person when compared to the person I was with.  There was something about being with an incredibly messed up person that meant I didn't have to deal with my own problems.

When I told my ex I thought she was a psychopath and made it clear that it wasn't what I wanted in my life she told me, "Everybody hates me and leaves me when they find out." 

I don't see how anyone can't pity that.  How exactly can you reserve your pity for the people who deserve it?  I kinda just accepted her for who she was, but I didn't want it in my life. 

 


Gabben

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Re: Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 01:48:50 PM »

I definitely pitied her, and did everything I could to try and help her to no avail.  Something else I noticed, is that when you spend so much time with somebody who does such awful things it makes it hard to see your own issues.  I mean, I could literally do no wrong for six years.  I saw myself as an incredibly great person when compared to the person I was with.  There was something about being with an incredibly messed up person that meant I didn't have to deal with my own problems.
 

I don't see how anyone can't pity that.  How exactly can you reserve your pity for the people who deserve it?  I kinda just accepted her for who she was, but I didn't want it in my life. 


Darren -- Bravo to your courage and integrity.

I've heard that line before too from certain people....the ultimate last ditch effort to evoke pity..."no one likes me, helpless me, why do they all leave..." Pathetic!

Gabben

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Re: Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2008, 11:40:52 AM »
From {Hare]:

Psychopaths view any social exchange as a "feeding opportunity," a contest or a test of wills in which there can be only one winner. Their motives are to manipulate and take, ruthlessly and without remorse.


Certain Hope

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Re: Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2008, 11:50:39 AM »
From {Hare]:

Psychopaths view any social exchange as a "feeding opportunity," a contest or a test of wills in which there can be only one winner. Their motives are to manipulate and take, ruthlessly and without remorse.



Wow. That nails it, Lise! Thank you!!

And all of the rest, as well. Guess I didn't read this one either, when you first shared it. Thanks for bringing it back to the top!

Those excerpts from Guggenbuhl-Craig describe exactly how I felt toward NPD-ex...
to the point that, even after having to get him removed from our home under a protective order,
I was so concerned about who would take care of him that I contacted Adult Protective Services on his behalf.
(He'd made sure to leave his insulin behind. Get this - took his shampoo, but left his insulin....  do you suppose I was intended to feel horribly and shamefully responsible?!)

No, there is no end to that tactics they'll try when they know they've finally crossed the line... and suddenly you're tempted to think once again... aww, maybe this time it could be different. Don't be fooled by that apparent flash of humanity and  vulnerability...  there's a skeleton of cast iron beneath that facade!

Carolyn

Gabben

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Re: Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2008, 11:58:57 AM »
Dear Carolyn,

"No, there is no end to that tactics they'll try when they know they've finally crossed the line... and suddenly you're tempted to think once again... aww, maybe this time it could be different. Don't be fooled by that apparent flash of humanity and  vulnerability...  there's a skeleton of cast iron beneath that facade!"

Well said.

When someone is really hurting because someone had really hurt them they are usually angry. If someone is feigning victimhood to play for our pity then it is a sure sign of lies and deceit.

Real genuine people do not seek pity....on the contrary, they tend to shun being pitied.

There is a healthy mind set in seeking compassion, that is completely different from seeking pity, but usually people who are healing and progressing are able to give compassion to themselves, therefore they have no need for others attention.

Pity is reserved for the manipulator....seeking pity is essentially selfish.

Lise

Certain Hope

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Re: Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2008, 12:04:21 PM »
I absolutely agree, Lise. Pity-seeking is a manipulative tool in the hands of a con artist. I never saw it so clearly before.

Thanks for helping me to understand!

Love,
Carolyn

P.S. My maternal aunt always sought pity... and my reaction to that is a huge reason why I've always struggled with even knowing it's okay to need compassion... and to offer it!  The two were all tangled up together, but not I see!


Gabben

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Re: Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2008, 12:14:32 PM »
Bottom line...seeking pity is to seek blood...pity seekers are emotional vampires.


lighter

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Re: Excerpts re: the pity ploys of the N and the P
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2008, 06:37:39 PM »
Edit: 6/12/08



Playing the Victim Role
This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstance or someone else's behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that cover-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and hostile personalities usually can't stand to see anyone suffering. Therefore, the tactic is simple. Convince your victim you're suffering in some way, and they'll try to relieve your distress.
In Sheep's Clothing - Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People
by George K. Simon

http://www.amazon.com/Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Dealing-Manipulative/dp/096516960X





Bears repeating.

Lighter